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The beefed neutIII would help balance out flares. Since you can now hit people with energy easier due to their higher velocity, especially if they are boosting toward you, it would be a good counter to flares in skilled hands.
I'm not advocating a complete return to the old flares either, as the Itani would suddenly gain a massive advantage with relatively easy access to the Valk. But un-nerfing them would be good.
[edit] To the above post: It used to be that a good player could force combat and a kill on a player who wasn't willing to fight. So you learned the hard way - by getting killed over and over again at the hands of people better than you. It's not really something you can teach.. it's hand eye coordination and the correct reflexes, which can only be learned through practice. So basically, if you're a newb, get out there and die... over and over again. We all did it too, and we know it sucks, but the payoff, eventually, is great.[/edit]
I'm not advocating a complete return to the old flares either, as the Itani would suddenly gain a massive advantage with relatively easy access to the Valk. But un-nerfing them would be good.
[edit] To the above post: It used to be that a good player could force combat and a kill on a player who wasn't willing to fight. So you learned the hard way - by getting killed over and over again at the hands of people better than you. It's not really something you can teach.. it's hand eye coordination and the correct reflexes, which can only be learned through practice. So basically, if you're a newb, get out there and die... over and over again. We all did it too, and we know it sucks, but the payoff, eventually, is great.[/edit]
I'm doing that in spades at the moment Starfisher - punctuated with the odd success on my part, which makes it all worthwhile. But you're right, it can be very frustrating, especially when it's 2/3 against 1, but thems the breaks.
::applauds Starfisher::
excellent suggestion! i wish all players, itani and serco, would accept said advice!
what is the harm of dying? it is not like a good kill/death ratio gives you any advantages in the game. get out there, try new things! DIE!!!
excellent suggestion! i wish all players, itani and serco, would accept said advice!
what is the harm of dying? it is not like a good kill/death ratio gives you any advantages in the game. get out there, try new things! DIE!!!
*starts stockpiling money so he can buy back his ships, over, and over, and over again*
I don't think it's appropriate to blame the "stupid noob" for backrolling. Backrolling has very little to do with being scared of the fight and everything to do with being the only tactic new pilots know. There is nothing whatsoever to be gained from learning additional tactics where botting is concerned -- the objective is to kill mass quantities of them while taking as few hits as possible, and backrolling does this. These players assume, with impeccable logic, that the tactics they've learned in one part of the game will transfer to the other parts of the game.
Here is a suggestion: rather than bash new pilots as dullards and cowards, why don't you write up a tutorial on good PvP piloting tactics?
Here is a suggestion: rather than bash new pilots as dullards and cowards, why don't you write up a tutorial on good PvP piloting tactics?
I've been called a newb over and over again.. and I feel that this thread is somwhat directed toward me since I use a tri-neut valk. The thing is i AM a newb. i've only been playing this game for about a month, but the problem is, I don't do what these people say I do (what is commonly accepted 'newb' behavior, being rolling and back straffing). I really like to get in people's face with the valk.. I get really impatient with 300m+ combat.. it's just really incredibly ridiculously, stupidly, pointlessly, and repetetively boring! I take advantage of every chance I get of learning new tactics from those "alpha players" as I call them (being those that played during the alpha/beta VO).
I've won various fights with people that call me a newb, and it's starting to get irritating. it seems that i'm called a newb just because I use a valk and they've never seen me before. almost makes me wanna quit using one.. ALMOST ;)
I've won various fights with people that call me a newb, and it's starting to get irritating. it seems that i'm called a newb just because I use a valk and they've never seen me before. almost makes me wanna quit using one.. ALMOST ;)
No, they're calling you a newb because there is an unfortunate tradition in the community of insanely inflated egos. You just have to sort of ignore it. People will call you coward, ridicule you for running and flat out ignore reality in order to attack your character - it's annoying as hell but part of the game. Please don't get drawn in. It gets really tiresome. Back in Alpha the general chat would be filled with barbed back and forths.. ugh lets avoid that if we can.
wylfing, I'm not calling newbs stupid. I know why they persist in backrolling. That doesn't change the fact that it's boring. And there's no way you can learn PvP from a tutorial. That's like saying you can learn karate by reading a book.
It's a problem that will hopefully be partially solved by todays update, but we shall see. Backrolling away has and alway will be the most effecive method of disengaging from a fight regardless of the weapons involved - although with the neut3, it will be even more effective at keeping people at a distance than it ever has been in the past - new players have to learn how to ATTACK, not disengage, and nothing I say or do is going to make them learn it. They just have to get bored of combat on their own and try something new.
wylfing, I'm not calling newbs stupid. I know why they persist in backrolling. That doesn't change the fact that it's boring. And there's no way you can learn PvP from a tutorial. That's like saying you can learn karate by reading a book.
It's a problem that will hopefully be partially solved by todays update, but we shall see. Backrolling away has and alway will be the most effecive method of disengaging from a fight regardless of the weapons involved - although with the neut3, it will be even more effective at keeping people at a distance than it ever has been in the past - new players have to learn how to ATTACK, not disengage, and nothing I say or do is going to make them learn it. They just have to get bored of combat on their own and try something new.
Apex, keep your Valk, and i dont think this thread was directed at just one person... ...Some me v valk fights have been the most exciting fights i have had, wether i win or loose, but as the origional poster said, its real hard to hit somebody who constantly stays 300+ from you, they may as well just run away... <-- then at least I would get to chase them, and get my rush that way...
...If im not sweating/shaking after a fight, I feel it was a bad fight, and will say so. In your face fighting is great, but thats not to say the tactic should never be used, I am guilty of it too, if I strap on a heavy batt due to gauss, the first few mins of a fight will be me backrolling, hence not getting hit when i cannot shoot. (Dueling is exempt from this statement - when using the /duel protocol, i get no shake/sweat, and its why i fight, but dont duel...)
...If im not sweating/shaking after a fight, I feel it was a bad fight, and will say so. In your face fighting is great, but thats not to say the tactic should never be used, I am guilty of it too, if I strap on a heavy batt due to gauss, the first few mins of a fight will be me backrolling, hence not getting hit when i cannot shoot. (Dueling is exempt from this statement - when using the /duel protocol, i get no shake/sweat, and its why i fight, but dont duel...)
Piro, you of all people should know how easy it is to make a rolling valk back into a bunch of flares. You taught me proper battlefield control ;).
I don't think there's really anything wrong with the ability to dissengage from a fight by keeping distance.. I just hope that in the future, players will be able to build a ship loadout that is focused on dealing with backrolling. particuarly something fast with aggressive and hard hitting weapons. it would probably be somethinglike a warthog with a railgun, gauss cannon. and much better speed capability, but not necessarily giveing it extra maneuverability, since you wouldn't particularly need it against a back-roller as most of them probably don't know how to deal with close range combat, and won't hit you much anyway. as for this loadout against tougher players, it probably wouldn't work too well. example: hog w/gauss+rail vs. Valk w/3xNeut3. that wouldnt' be any competition because a valk would rip that vehicle to shreds at close range. the warthog seems to be a really easy target... but with a back-roller in the valk.. the valk would suffer a sudden and quick death or a slow painfull dissintegration.
Any tactic is valid in my book. Personally I have rarely backpedelled, but I can see how it is useful against flares as it almost makes them stationary, and hence very easy to dodge. By all means I think the newer players should try different things, but I see it taking far longer for them to establish their own fighting style as PvP is much less common than it was when I started playing. Isn't that right Phoenix... ;-)
It's perfectly valid, just boring...
Quoth starfisher:
>No, they're calling you a newb because there is an unfortunate >tradition in the community of insanely inflated egos. You just >have to sort of ignore it. People will call you coward, ridicule >you for running and flat out ignore reality in order to attack >your character - it's annoying as hell but part of the game. >Please don't get drawn in. It gets really tiresome. Back in >Alpha the general chat would be filled with barbed back and >forths.. ugh lets avoid that if we can.
Amen to that brother.
Btw, in the meantime, I suggest using /ignore. I've a nice little list already, works great to the improvement of my enjoyment of the game (and the possibility of me renewing my subscription for the next month ;)).
>No, they're calling you a newb because there is an unfortunate >tradition in the community of insanely inflated egos. You just >have to sort of ignore it. People will call you coward, ridicule >you for running and flat out ignore reality in order to attack >your character - it's annoying as hell but part of the game. >Please don't get drawn in. It gets really tiresome. Back in >Alpha the general chat would be filled with barbed back and >forths.. ugh lets avoid that if we can.
Amen to that brother.
Btw, in the meantime, I suggest using /ignore. I've a nice little list already, works great to the improvement of my enjoyment of the game (and the possibility of me renewing my subscription for the next month ;)).
sometimes i think that /ignore is the best feature in vendetta.
Aye, its great
Editied from 'Shut up you newbs' to this because someone might take me seriously. Newbs take everything seriously.
take n00b seriously at your own risk of heart failure.
n00b is serious!
shut up the rest of you... n00bs... :P
shut up the rest of you... n00bs... :P
now really whats wrong with backpedalling...
If I feel comfortable in shooting and getting hits in at around 300m then that is my right to do so. IF you hate it, hten tough luck to you. If you prefer to come at 50m since you believe that to be the most fun than that is your idea and not necessarilly the BEST.
Everybody knows probably from me that I preferred backpedalling above anything else, unless it would make me go out of my "zone". Either boost in burst and manoeuver yourselve closer to take a couple of potshots "yes It is doable". Or make it impossible for the other guy to move further away then 100m. (yes is possible also, eldrad made it a couple times difficult for me to move outside the 100-150m range)
Everybody probably knows that I was pretty decent in energy duels... Mostly because I unsettled the other persons tactic. Since almost all the energyfights that were done between the so called 'elite' was at around 150 - 100m. So the best tactic to make this 'elite' look foolish and let them fail was to get them out of their zone and into my zone. What backpedalling helped me with. I died from time to time, which is normal since I am and always will be a backpedalling noob, but I did take them down more then they took me down. Sometimes with 10% left, sometimes with 90% left. The point is, backpedalling is a valid tactic and if you can't hit anybody at 300m+ then i suggest you to take rails and a gauss. Since the chance of them coming to a closer distance is nihil and rails shine at a distance of 300 - 400m. The gauss is just as a backup weapon, you could also replace it with a neut if you preffered a less hard hitting weapon. But that is your own choice.
But just quit with complaining, the problem is not in backpedalling but in your observation of a fun fight. I always preffered to exchange some shots and to hit with a properly placed rocket. AND this has exactly been cancelled with all the 100 - 150m fights. IT used to be ELITE-like to coach a person into dodging into a rocket by using energyweapons. In stead of going into a close fight and hoping on a hit or just using the guided weaponbot to hit or use proximity to get a hit. And im sure that blaster, icarus, arolte,etc will agree with me. The fights that you had before(beta) had nothing to do with being fun but just being effective. Since people love being able to say I own and I rOxOr your bOxOrz...
So if you really wanna show your skill then you will try to stay at around the same distance it being 200 - 250m (optimum distance to avoid and get a hit in with a neut or blue ion). Also the proper distance of using rockets in stead of using dumbfire/spam or relying on anything but the proximity. And especially using the same ship. Since all ships favor one or the other usage of weapontypes. IT might be boring in your eyes, but if you wanna make the remark of noobs using 300m+ and backpedalling then Ill make the remark of noobs coming into 100 -150m range and hoping on the proximity or the aimbot to get the hit for them...
So just stop with tossing around all these accusations, its a dynamical game which unfortunately means that it will never be as it used to be. Which were the golden years. Adjust and have fun and hope that there ever will be a return to a golden middle route in your idea of the best times and the others idea of the best times.
I would so love to see the 3.0 years back :( with everybody in exact the same outfit, exact the same weapons. Dodging 10 loads of swarms and heavy ships having a chance in fighting back agaisnt a light ship although it was not easy but had the advantage of being harder hitting. OOOHH those were the golden years :D
cheers
If I feel comfortable in shooting and getting hits in at around 300m then that is my right to do so. IF you hate it, hten tough luck to you. If you prefer to come at 50m since you believe that to be the most fun than that is your idea and not necessarilly the BEST.
Everybody knows probably from me that I preferred backpedalling above anything else, unless it would make me go out of my "zone". Either boost in burst and manoeuver yourselve closer to take a couple of potshots "yes It is doable". Or make it impossible for the other guy to move further away then 100m. (yes is possible also, eldrad made it a couple times difficult for me to move outside the 100-150m range)
Everybody probably knows that I was pretty decent in energy duels... Mostly because I unsettled the other persons tactic. Since almost all the energyfights that were done between the so called 'elite' was at around 150 - 100m. So the best tactic to make this 'elite' look foolish and let them fail was to get them out of their zone and into my zone. What backpedalling helped me with. I died from time to time, which is normal since I am and always will be a backpedalling noob, but I did take them down more then they took me down. Sometimes with 10% left, sometimes with 90% left. The point is, backpedalling is a valid tactic and if you can't hit anybody at 300m+ then i suggest you to take rails and a gauss. Since the chance of them coming to a closer distance is nihil and rails shine at a distance of 300 - 400m. The gauss is just as a backup weapon, you could also replace it with a neut if you preffered a less hard hitting weapon. But that is your own choice.
But just quit with complaining, the problem is not in backpedalling but in your observation of a fun fight. I always preffered to exchange some shots and to hit with a properly placed rocket. AND this has exactly been cancelled with all the 100 - 150m fights. IT used to be ELITE-like to coach a person into dodging into a rocket by using energyweapons. In stead of going into a close fight and hoping on a hit or just using the guided weaponbot to hit or use proximity to get a hit. And im sure that blaster, icarus, arolte,etc will agree with me. The fights that you had before(beta) had nothing to do with being fun but just being effective. Since people love being able to say I own and I rOxOr your bOxOrz...
So if you really wanna show your skill then you will try to stay at around the same distance it being 200 - 250m (optimum distance to avoid and get a hit in with a neut or blue ion). Also the proper distance of using rockets in stead of using dumbfire/spam or relying on anything but the proximity. And especially using the same ship. Since all ships favor one or the other usage of weapontypes. IT might be boring in your eyes, but if you wanna make the remark of noobs using 300m+ and backpedalling then Ill make the remark of noobs coming into 100 -150m range and hoping on the proximity or the aimbot to get the hit for them...
So just stop with tossing around all these accusations, its a dynamical game which unfortunately means that it will never be as it used to be. Which were the golden years. Adjust and have fun and hope that there ever will be a return to a golden middle route in your idea of the best times and the others idea of the best times.
I would so love to see the 3.0 years back :( with everybody in exact the same outfit, exact the same weapons. Dodging 10 loads of swarms and heavy ships having a chance in fighting back agaisnt a light ship although it was not easy but had the advantage of being harder hitting. OOOHH those were the golden years :D
cheers
Uh.. none of your tactics to counter the backroll are valid, as those weapons are no longer viable. The tachyon was a favorite anti-triflare weapon because once you learned how to lead properly you could blast them as they boosted in on you. Now that the tach has been beefed, boosting in is even more dangerous. Rails weigh enough that tracking a rolling Valk is difficult, and if you have rails you are defenseless when the Valk suddenly realizes that if he gets in close he owns you.
Using Eldrad as an example for anything is ridiculous. Just because the acknowledged god of energy weapons can do something doesn't mean the other 200 of us can, or even have the time to learn.
Maybe you find backing away constantly to be fun, but I don't. Many of the posts to this thread seem to agree with me. There's no more "skill" in spamming away for five minutes at 300m and getting two hits than there is with boosting in close and trying to get out of the other guys sights while blasting him. One simply is more exciting for more people.
Hopefully once the kinks get worked out with engine and ship balance, we can start bringing more weapons into the mix. That will hopefully mix things up a little.
Using Eldrad as an example for anything is ridiculous. Just because the acknowledged god of energy weapons can do something doesn't mean the other 200 of us can, or even have the time to learn.
Maybe you find backing away constantly to be fun, but I don't. Many of the posts to this thread seem to agree with me. There's no more "skill" in spamming away for five minutes at 300m and getting two hits than there is with boosting in close and trying to get out of the other guys sights while blasting him. One simply is more exciting for more people.
Hopefully once the kinks get worked out with engine and ship balance, we can start bringing more weapons into the mix. That will hopefully mix things up a little.