I have noticed an interesting trend in Valk combat. Those of you from the alpha will remember that the traditional method of fighting in a valk, be it triflare or energy or some combination, was usually quick and brutal, with the combatants at close range or jockeying for position in flare runs.

It would seem that constant botting to get the valk has taught our newer pilots that the correct way to fly this ship is to constantly roll while back away. Needless to say, this results in intensely boring fights in which one may simply remain in one spot, turn off the engines and dodge all incoming fire - as it is coming from 300m or more away. Eventually, the timid valker may attempt to come closer, but will instantly retreat again as soon as you attack.

I never thought I'd say this.. but Vendetta's combat has become boring, unless I end up in a fight with a vet. Botting has destroyed the precious institution of other players teaching newbs combat and as a result we are left with bots in valks.

Perhaps this will be alleviated in the upcoming patch, and no, I'm not giving up and storming off. Just frustrated that I spent all this time getting money to fight... and now the fights are boring 9/10 times. Damnit. What happend to the sweaty palmed, blinkless combat of the past? Argh!

Time to figure out how to fight people who refuse to enter the effective range of either party's weapons, yet if the constant streams of neut3s are any indication, are offering combat.

railss would've solved that problem. but they're heavy. and valks are zippy. and...

(*well duh. nth iteration :) )

so i'm one of the newbs (having not been on the alpha or beta) who levelled up to get a valk before attempting PvP, and i agree with Starfisher. I expected PvP to involve more sophisticated, or at least diverse, tactics. Sometimes it does, in which case i find myself at a disadvantage since most of my chops were cut on prosus assualts. Often it doesn't, in which case it does get pretty boring. An exception to this is when the PvP occurs in the context of CTC, and there's incentive on both sides to disengange from a fight that keeps you from the convoy (hopefully the new patch will make disengagement the routine tactic which it should be). anyway, one of the only ways around this that's immediately apparent is to make ship/loadout combos that encourage different tactics (basically something that trumps a valk+neut3 when used correctly). but i'm sure there are other ways too.

im glad i never learned how to bot :p

all my pvp fights have been up close and personal (usually with shape)...it might have something to do with the fact i fly a hog rather than a valk and cant get neut3's...but even if i did i still much prefer close in combat (battlestar galactica style)

This problem would be solved most easily by making rockets and rails effective again.

Well you could always teach us newer guys how to fight... ;)

Whats missing from fights are sunflares and gauss. As soon sunflares come into play mindless rolling is not going to cut it any longer as you will eventually roll into a bunch of well placed flares. Gauss would also allow much tighter fighters. Lets hope the next patch evens the playing field.

Just had a fight with a rune valk. I was flying a bus, as usual.
If you count hits as points, I won 5vs3.
Then again, you could say I won either way, because a pair of nice sercos came and helped me out. There is a very slight possibility I'dve won anyway.

Borb: I think the problem is that the roll/back away method is very effective at keeping yourself alive. The other guy can't get in close to do damage.. but then you can't do damage either, so it's basically a question of how long the attacker will persist before getting bored or deciding its not worth it. Its the perfect tactic if you don't want to fight - but if you boost in towards someone and fire a stream of tachs, you obviously want to fight..

Basically I doubt people are going to be willing to waste their shiny new Valk learning more aggresive combat techniques, cause learning in vendetta means lots of death.

yes.. I died 105 times in pvp and lost around 45 valks learning to pvp.. and still long way to go compared to some people that have been here for years.

I don't post often, but let me tell you two things:
Flares don't cut it against back rollers, it never has, even before weight.

Rails need good practice to kill a roller valk.

I would reccommend a rail/homer combo, it'll make newer valk pilots die.

hmmm, how about a system where one can only get the valk/prom after approval from vet players after gathering pvp with them. :) i know it wouldn't happen, but gaining something after player approval sounds interesting. like a player government similar to a guild but more universal. :)

too much likereal life? probably.

If that was done, in all likelyhood getting a valk as a player who wasn't a vet would be hell.

I remember end of beta, me in Valk, duel gemenies and i owned, however i do not know how mass effects speed these days soon i am comming back to game and will pvp with ya all to your hearts desires :)

:) I get a lot of those spinners. My strategy is usually to just switch to physics mode and keep a steady sidestrafe(valuable, as you'll see). when they realize they're moving further and further away, they turn around and try to come back in. once they get to about 300 m, I switch into FA mode, (the sidestrafing turns me into full throttle). This usually leaves me close enough to pull off a few hits.

then they back off, and I repeat. Their only solution is to run. If they don't want to fight, they don't have to. But they're not going
hit me at a range of 300 m... sorry not effective.

Basically, its a strategy of disengaging. So all it proves is that the game is set up to allow people to disengage. So let em. You won't get a kill everytime.

/me agress with shape.... and there are still some rockets with which you can bring ppl into trouble..

/maso

I don't even fly a Valk, and many valk chums stayed about 300m back. The vult chums who did that were even worse. No one was hitting anybody, but I couldn't run away because then I'd die. Those were the most boring 10+ minute long circles that I've ever flown.

I think this can simply be done with adding weapons with more area effect. It would hit the person even if he's rolling and strafing. It would lead to more intense battles, the enemy will have to manouvre away from the guns and get himself in a profitble position to shoot the enemy.

Another thing that could be done is adding very agile rockets, that have a huge chance of hitting a target, opposing this would be adding anti mesure to counter rockets.

Although I agree that some of the current crop of pilots lack the 'balls' required for knife fighting, I don't think returning the flares to their former glory would help for long. We would probably end up in the same quickfire jousts (literally: valks charging with dual or triple sunflares, attempting to put a rocket in the other guys face, dodging at the last second) of alpha. I would like to see them become a little more useful than they currently are. I posted a suggestion a while ago about giving the ammunition mass, which is subtracted from your ship when shot. This would be a start.

The current combat system seems to encourage larger energy fights involving 4 or more ships. The best way to kill a back-strafe fighter is to sneak up behind them when distracted by a team-mate and blast them. I've noticed a lot of the newer pilots pay little or no attention to their radar when fighting someone else.

Recently, I learned a tactic from a pair of Serco players. Wait till a player jumps in system, attack them, then bombard then with PM's telling them they are the biggest coward in the game. Really effective :\

I think maybe some vets or other good players should try teaching people how to fight with valks. They are VERY nice ships with fast speed, shape,mass, everything is nice about them. But if you don't know how to fight in one(like me) then they become worthless. Then they become ships for the "leet" and then nobody else can use them for much anything else then impressing newbs. So, it's simple as training new people how to fight with valks.