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I don't think I could handle having warping delay. I'm proud of the fact I was able to actually run away from Icarus and not get killed until we entered the 2nd sector. Yeah me! I'm all for letting the less agressive players run away from the big predators.
It seems to me that the current system is reasonably balanced as it is, and I must
agree with "sarahanne." I see no reason to make changes that would tilt the game
in favor of pirates, ambushers and "PK freaks." There are those who claim to just
be "role playing," but seem to be down-right anti-social. Those that are really
good players and really role-playing are also intelligent and creative enough to
"ply their trade" successfully now.
agree with "sarahanne." I see no reason to make changes that would tilt the game
in favor of pirates, ambushers and "PK freaks." There are those who claim to just
be "role playing," but seem to be down-right anti-social. Those that are really
good players and really role-playing are also intelligent and creative enough to
"ply their trade" successfully now.
consensual PvP
That was just a topic of discussion I had with a person ive known for years in game.
His view was consensual PvP will always come down to zerg fest that will be determined by numbers and not skill. This does not apply to dueling but dueling isnt really mmo pvp.
Nonconsensual PvP is the only part of mmo's pvp system that is unique and adds excitement to all aspects of the game.
Does it get abused, yes. That is why games put limitations on it to keep it under control.
My view is pretty much simple. If we are at war then I will come hunt you where you live unless you have the skill and determination to stop me. With out Nonconsensual PvP that is rendered impossible. We might as well sit around shot bots.
That was just a topic of discussion I had with a person ive known for years in game.
His view was consensual PvP will always come down to zerg fest that will be determined by numbers and not skill. This does not apply to dueling but dueling isnt really mmo pvp.
Nonconsensual PvP is the only part of mmo's pvp system that is unique and adds excitement to all aspects of the game.
Does it get abused, yes. That is why games put limitations on it to keep it under control.
My view is pretty much simple. If we are at war then I will come hunt you where you live unless you have the skill and determination to stop me. With out Nonconsensual PvP that is rendered impossible. We might as well sit around shot bots.
if it weren't for those 'strong' defenses... there are players who can waltz around anywhere they wish and, well, I guess pvp!
*in fact, even with the defenses, they're still free to do pretty much all they want*
*in fact, even with the defenses, they're still free to do pretty much all they want*
Yokom: That's why you build reasons into the game for people to go to the at risk areas for purposes other than PvP.
For example, put the best trade routes in the grey sectors. Even right now, I think the only way an Itani can get an Apu-Tech 17 is to go to a neutral system. Put bots in high-level missions (group and solo) ONLY in the grey sectors.
That way, you have people there that aren't there strictly for PvP, but at the same time they are aware of the risks.
For example, put the best trade routes in the grey sectors. Even right now, I think the only way an Itani can get an Apu-Tech 17 is to go to a neutral system. Put bots in high-level missions (group and solo) ONLY in the grey sectors.
That way, you have people there that aren't there strictly for PvP, but at the same time they are aware of the risks.
Yokom: I agree, I definitely think nonconsensual PvP should be in the game, especially when it comes to large battles. I was responding to Targarth's suggestion that the /duel function should be removed from the game.
In reality, i think all anyone can really ask for in a game like this that desires to cater to all in a fair and balanced manner is a place where open PvP can happen...and a reason for actualy going there that rewards you for for taking the risk or joining part in what should be the best reason to play a game like vendetta on this scale.
i think the question of pirating has to take a back seat in order to focus on the main issue of how the game handles both agressors and defenders.
I'm sure many who populate several MMPOG's cant stress enough to devlopers to release a smooth, well balanced, and complete product is what makes or breaks a game, regardless of potential.
i think the question of pirating has to take a back seat in order to focus on the main issue of how the game handles both agressors and defenders.
I'm sure many who populate several MMPOG's cant stress enough to devlopers to release a smooth, well balanced, and complete product is what makes or breaks a game, regardless of potential.
It's funny, some of these engine complaints are funny, I mean in real life do complain because your 10 year old volvo can't compete with a new BMW? If you want the performance you buy it, you don't make manufacturers even things out do you? Don't like your slow ship, get a faster one...
I was suggesting once you are a warthog or any other higher class ship(excluding the trader ship), and 3/x/x/x or higher, then I think another person shooting you down in nation space should be a fair game plus it should not affect the other nations raputation.
tilt: then in that case all the players that manage to get to high lvls first will massacare the lower lvl players because they will have good equipment, and no matter how good you are, if you are in a wart, with a plasma cannon, and stingray, you cannot hold off a valk packed with geminie's and tach or any of the other deadly combos. and the peole who make it ot the top first will be the vets and the newbes will be at lvl 3 messing around with the ships, the newbies will get slaughtered by "PVPers"
Right now it is pretty balanced but the faction hit for killing someone is quite large(i understand the logical and story wise explainations) however for game play reasons just make it drop one standing or something, or if they are neutral no standing drop, and if they are (what's next?)take 50 rating points off, then admire take 100 standing points off and if they are loved by that nation take 200 standing points off. nad if they are below neutral then have the reverse of what i mentioned, add 50 rep points, 100 rep poins and 150 rep points(respectively for dislike, hate and KOS) because you killed someone they didn't like. And just a idea, maybe have a "prove your worth mission if you are at or below dislike?" when you choose that you are left alone and allowed to bot or trade with that nation but if you kill another player(who is above like by that nation) you automatically become KOS... this would make rasing your standing less impossible and still allow people to PVP without dire concequences and also add insentive and a easier way to lvl the reps up
darth out
Right now it is pretty balanced but the faction hit for killing someone is quite large(i understand the logical and story wise explainations) however for game play reasons just make it drop one standing or something, or if they are neutral no standing drop, and if they are (what's next?)take 50 rating points off, then admire take 100 standing points off and if they are loved by that nation take 200 standing points off. nad if they are below neutral then have the reverse of what i mentioned, add 50 rep points, 100 rep poins and 150 rep points(respectively for dislike, hate and KOS) because you killed someone they didn't like. And just a idea, maybe have a "prove your worth mission if you are at or below dislike?" when you choose that you are left alone and allowed to bot or trade with that nation but if you kill another player(who is above like by that nation) you automatically become KOS... this would make rasing your standing less impossible and still allow people to PVP without dire concequences and also add insentive and a easier way to lvl the reps up
darth out
Ahhhhhh, questions of the fundamental gameplay...........interesting stuff. :)
I played this game a bit about a year and a half or so ago, and really got fed up pretty quick with the constant pirating. It was nigh impossible to get anywhere for me. I'm very glad to see improvement in this area. I can't say I'm totally satisified with the way it's been implemented (more complex galaxy/sector system, defbots), but I think the idea of having "home" space virtually impenetrable by pirates is good, and it's good that the really profitable routes tend to be outside home space. Noobs can hang around home and build up credits and xp they desperately need, but when they start wanting the bigger bux (and have more real experience and better ships/eq), the riskier but more profitable areas are out there. Basically, trading is good these days.
Pirating: a nuisance. Fun for the pirate, maybe, but not for the victim. I certainly see pirating as something you wouldn't necessarily want to negate in a MMORPG, but IMO it should never be relied upon as a critical part of the gameplay. Right now it's about the only PvP that has any real incentive as far as I can tell, and frankly I don't see that it's even worth it.......trade routes seem a quicker way to make money, the theoritical point of pirating. The other day I packed away about 450k in an hour........now I'm only at trade level 2, I haven't fully explored the galaxy to get a feel for where the money is (though I've found a couple of routes that seem to consisitently yield good profits), plus I forgot to buy my most profitable cargo on one run. :P I would expect a more experienced trader would be able to top this. Now, even if a typical fighter/attack ship had the 16 cargo bays of the Centaur, he would have to be running across multiple traders, fairly often, and nailing most or all of them to come out ahead compared to trading........and yet most fighters only have 1/4th the cargo space of the Centaur, and the Serco Gaurdian Vulture, for instance, only has 3 cargo bays! It would take the pirate four trips in the average fighter to retrive and sell all the cargo collected from a single Centaur. In the mean time, the trader has bought another ship and is on another trade route, haulin' in da filthy lucre. I dunno, I've never tried pirating, but can the average pirate really claim 450k an hour? How about 350k? 250k.....? Aside from the "fun" and role-playing aspect of it (which is probably really why most pirates do what they do), there doesn't seem any real point to it.
Another reason I don't think pirating should be relied upon as a serious way to get PvP going is that there's no point in it for the victim. This may seem like a stupid point to make, but I think we're overlooking it somewhat. When I'm on a trade route, my GOAL is to trade and make money. Pirates would be an annoyance at best.......at worst, a game-breaker. There's no reason for me to engage pirates when trading, if I can avoid them. Both sides need a good reason to fight for it to be really enjoyable.
Dueling seems a bit pointless too. We're supposed to have a war going on here, but instead we have lots of trading, botting, and a few inconsequential duels. It always strikes me how when I get online and trade or bot, I occasionally see other players, but almost the only interaction any player ever has with another is via the chat window. It's definitely different from an offline, single player game, though, as there's a community going on. Players give each other advice, share info regarding trade routes, tip off each other to good places to buy gear, etc........but no real in-game interaction. It's unique, I'll say that. :)
Now, with all that said.........we *are* playing a beta here. From what folks have said on the chat and on these forums, I get the impression the release version will be radically different. And I'd expect this........the devs want us to test stuff, but they probably want to have plenty of new material for the full release, too. One of the biggest and most positive possible changes I've heard about is player-controlled stations. I dunno if this is going to be in the release, but it makes sense. What I see in the Vendetta world is a lack of player control......we don't have much effect on how the galaxy goes. If players could buy/sell or fight for/defend stations, set prices, hire defense bots and/or defense players, it would open a whole new world. Granted, this particular implementation in and of itself is maybe not the direction Vendetta is supposed to be headed (supposed to be a faction war, not a corporate power struggle), but the basic concept is on the right track. The whole galaxy would be dynamic, and the dynamics would not be based on the "whims" of computerized virtual entities.
A slight change in the faction alignment situation might be helpful. For instance, folks could be unaligned if they wanted to. And I don't mean being in the UIT faction.........if you started out as unaligned, you would have neutral standing with all factions. If you took over a station, it would be *your* station, not an Itani/UIT/Serco station, and possibly could offer more control.......but perhaps no defbots? Also, players could change alignment in-game, altering their standings with various factions. And going unaligned to clear your standings wouldn't be an option, because factions would still like/dislike you based on past behavior (you might only annoy your old faction, decreasing standing). The biggest problem I see with this revision in the character system is that it sorta conflicts with the storyline, as alignment is very much a race/heritage thing.
But I'm sure the devs have thought long and hard on these and numerous other gameplay issues and possibilities, and have designed the final product accordingly. I wouldn't get too worried about the game from a storyline/role playing perspective, as it seems what we have now is more an excuse to test the technical aspects of the game rather than a full-blown exhibition of the role-playing side of things.
There are a lot of cool possibilities with Vendetta which I'm sure the devs have thought of and have designed for..........I'm fairly optimistic that, overall, we're gonna like what they roll out on release day. :)
-Matt Bailey
I played this game a bit about a year and a half or so ago, and really got fed up pretty quick with the constant pirating. It was nigh impossible to get anywhere for me. I'm very glad to see improvement in this area. I can't say I'm totally satisified with the way it's been implemented (more complex galaxy/sector system, defbots), but I think the idea of having "home" space virtually impenetrable by pirates is good, and it's good that the really profitable routes tend to be outside home space. Noobs can hang around home and build up credits and xp they desperately need, but when they start wanting the bigger bux (and have more real experience and better ships/eq), the riskier but more profitable areas are out there. Basically, trading is good these days.
Pirating: a nuisance. Fun for the pirate, maybe, but not for the victim. I certainly see pirating as something you wouldn't necessarily want to negate in a MMORPG, but IMO it should never be relied upon as a critical part of the gameplay. Right now it's about the only PvP that has any real incentive as far as I can tell, and frankly I don't see that it's even worth it.......trade routes seem a quicker way to make money, the theoritical point of pirating. The other day I packed away about 450k in an hour........now I'm only at trade level 2, I haven't fully explored the galaxy to get a feel for where the money is (though I've found a couple of routes that seem to consisitently yield good profits), plus I forgot to buy my most profitable cargo on one run. :P I would expect a more experienced trader would be able to top this. Now, even if a typical fighter/attack ship had the 16 cargo bays of the Centaur, he would have to be running across multiple traders, fairly often, and nailing most or all of them to come out ahead compared to trading........and yet most fighters only have 1/4th the cargo space of the Centaur, and the Serco Gaurdian Vulture, for instance, only has 3 cargo bays! It would take the pirate four trips in the average fighter to retrive and sell all the cargo collected from a single Centaur. In the mean time, the trader has bought another ship and is on another trade route, haulin' in da filthy lucre. I dunno, I've never tried pirating, but can the average pirate really claim 450k an hour? How about 350k? 250k.....? Aside from the "fun" and role-playing aspect of it (which is probably really why most pirates do what they do), there doesn't seem any real point to it.
Another reason I don't think pirating should be relied upon as a serious way to get PvP going is that there's no point in it for the victim. This may seem like a stupid point to make, but I think we're overlooking it somewhat. When I'm on a trade route, my GOAL is to trade and make money. Pirates would be an annoyance at best.......at worst, a game-breaker. There's no reason for me to engage pirates when trading, if I can avoid them. Both sides need a good reason to fight for it to be really enjoyable.
Dueling seems a bit pointless too. We're supposed to have a war going on here, but instead we have lots of trading, botting, and a few inconsequential duels. It always strikes me how when I get online and trade or bot, I occasionally see other players, but almost the only interaction any player ever has with another is via the chat window. It's definitely different from an offline, single player game, though, as there's a community going on. Players give each other advice, share info regarding trade routes, tip off each other to good places to buy gear, etc........but no real in-game interaction. It's unique, I'll say that. :)
Now, with all that said.........we *are* playing a beta here. From what folks have said on the chat and on these forums, I get the impression the release version will be radically different. And I'd expect this........the devs want us to test stuff, but they probably want to have plenty of new material for the full release, too. One of the biggest and most positive possible changes I've heard about is player-controlled stations. I dunno if this is going to be in the release, but it makes sense. What I see in the Vendetta world is a lack of player control......we don't have much effect on how the galaxy goes. If players could buy/sell or fight for/defend stations, set prices, hire defense bots and/or defense players, it would open a whole new world. Granted, this particular implementation in and of itself is maybe not the direction Vendetta is supposed to be headed (supposed to be a faction war, not a corporate power struggle), but the basic concept is on the right track. The whole galaxy would be dynamic, and the dynamics would not be based on the "whims" of computerized virtual entities.
A slight change in the faction alignment situation might be helpful. For instance, folks could be unaligned if they wanted to. And I don't mean being in the UIT faction.........if you started out as unaligned, you would have neutral standing with all factions. If you took over a station, it would be *your* station, not an Itani/UIT/Serco station, and possibly could offer more control.......but perhaps no defbots? Also, players could change alignment in-game, altering their standings with various factions. And going unaligned to clear your standings wouldn't be an option, because factions would still like/dislike you based on past behavior (you might only annoy your old faction, decreasing standing). The biggest problem I see with this revision in the character system is that it sorta conflicts with the storyline, as alignment is very much a race/heritage thing.
But I'm sure the devs have thought long and hard on these and numerous other gameplay issues and possibilities, and have designed the final product accordingly. I wouldn't get too worried about the game from a storyline/role playing perspective, as it seems what we have now is more an excuse to test the technical aspects of the game rather than a full-blown exhibition of the role-playing side of things.
There are a lot of cool possibilities with Vendetta which I'm sure the devs have thought of and have designed for..........I'm fairly optimistic that, overall, we're gonna like what they roll out on release day. :)
-Matt Bailey