Forums » General
Ok i went looking for a fight today in my vulture and being Itani I went right for Serco space to see what kinda of fight I could get. OK when i wormholed in I was blown up in seconds as there is a station there. Ok find I went back got away from the station and was proceding into serco space. I was in a wormhole sector with no station just handing around waiting for a red dot to show up. Well 5 red dots showed up and poof i was gone.
On this subject will the auto defense bots for faction space be turned off come retail? Whats the use of the patrol mission if ther are no people invading. Dont tell me so you can go fight the more bots.
Next I move all my ships to the unreg side of Itani Space since it appears we cant go fight in thier space. I get in unreg two sectors deep and in a station sector see a red dot. Yes its a serco wraith running cargo. Before i can even get to him defense bots shred him.
Ok What the hell are Itani NPC defense bots doing in unreg?
The next thing that hits me is can you really PVP in this game. I mean there are a few problems deep in the design of the game that makes this really hard if not impossible.
1. The sector warp drive.
I was against this in JG and now I know why. If some one is losing and just wants to bug out its and instant get away. This will need alot of modifaction.
2. The capartmentalization of space.
There are just so many sectors inside each system. Where will you go to hunt down enemies. I dont know what can be done on this a this stage of the game. I know there are choke points at the wormhole. But is that what we want PVP to be in the game just wormhole camping.
3. The Boost Engine
I dont see how you can kill anyone as long as the boost drive is in. Couple the boost drive with insector Warp = no chance for PVP kill unless you get someone asleep at the wheel.
Maybe I just havnt seen enough of the game and if someone wants to point out to me where good pvp can be found in this game Ill gladly listen. I had heard for the longest time this would be a PVP game and frankly it looks just as carebear as EnB with improved combat system. I mean you take EnB add a reticle and joystick support, take out the auto watching your ship fight and poof you have Vendetta.
I hope in the next day or so I find somthing that proves all this wrong.
On this subject will the auto defense bots for faction space be turned off come retail? Whats the use of the patrol mission if ther are no people invading. Dont tell me so you can go fight the more bots.
Next I move all my ships to the unreg side of Itani Space since it appears we cant go fight in thier space. I get in unreg two sectors deep and in a station sector see a red dot. Yes its a serco wraith running cargo. Before i can even get to him defense bots shred him.
Ok What the hell are Itani NPC defense bots doing in unreg?
The next thing that hits me is can you really PVP in this game. I mean there are a few problems deep in the design of the game that makes this really hard if not impossible.
1. The sector warp drive.
I was against this in JG and now I know why. If some one is losing and just wants to bug out its and instant get away. This will need alot of modifaction.
2. The capartmentalization of space.
There are just so many sectors inside each system. Where will you go to hunt down enemies. I dont know what can be done on this a this stage of the game. I know there are choke points at the wormhole. But is that what we want PVP to be in the game just wormhole camping.
3. The Boost Engine
I dont see how you can kill anyone as long as the boost drive is in. Couple the boost drive with insector Warp = no chance for PVP kill unless you get someone asleep at the wheel.
Maybe I just havnt seen enough of the game and if someone wants to point out to me where good pvp can be found in this game Ill gladly listen. I had heard for the longest time this would be a PVP game and frankly it looks just as carebear as EnB with improved combat system. I mean you take EnB add a reticle and joystick support, take out the auto watching your ship fight and poof you have Vendetta.
I hope in the next day or so I find somthing that proves all this wrong.
Nope, you've just about encapsulated the complaints we've been voicing for a while. Problem is that there are only so many devs and right now I'm guessing server stability and missions have the priority.
Basically you can only fight in the gray sectors, where there are no defbots, and if you're out to be a pirate, good luck. Icarus has made a few kills if the chat box is any indication, but I wonder how long before people figure out that if they stay out of gray space they're basically invulnerable to enemies.
Basically you can only fight in the gray sectors, where there are no defbots, and if you're out to be a pirate, good luck. Icarus has made a few kills if the chat box is any indication, but I wonder how long before people figure out that if they stay out of gray space they're basically invulnerable to enemies.
"1. The sector warp drive."
I couldn't agree more. There used to be a countdown timer before sector warping during which you couldn't maneuver (rationale: because it would throw off the hyperspace calculations or whatever). I've been advocating for a while now that a short (3-5 second) countdown timer be reinstated before sector warp.
"2. The capartmentalization of space."
I actually don't think this will be a problem and here's why: there may be 256 sectors in each system, but the population won't be evenly distributed among these sectors. There will be definite "choke points" (wormholes, stations, ion storms) where you will be more likely to find people. Also, the current population is not as large as the population will be when the game hits the streets, so there will be more people to fill the space.
"3. The Boost Engine
I dont see how you can kill anyone as long as the boost drive is in. Couple the boost drive with insector Warp = no chance for PVP kill unless you get someone asleep at the wheel."
Amen, brother! Again, the engines used to be set up where the fastest engine drained energy more quickly than the slower engines, and this lent itself to a kind of trade off: you could have fast boost for short periods of time or slower boost for long periods of time. Traders tended to use the slower boost engines because it was more effecient over long distances. Pirates tended to use fast boost engines because they could lie in wait along a trade route and get a shot at overtaking a trader. Kind of like a short-sprinting cheetah going after a slower gazelle that had more stamina. So to sum all that up, the problem isn't having boost, it's having engines that can boost indefinitely at 200 m/s.
I couldn't agree more. There used to be a countdown timer before sector warping during which you couldn't maneuver (rationale: because it would throw off the hyperspace calculations or whatever). I've been advocating for a while now that a short (3-5 second) countdown timer be reinstated before sector warp.
"2. The capartmentalization of space."
I actually don't think this will be a problem and here's why: there may be 256 sectors in each system, but the population won't be evenly distributed among these sectors. There will be definite "choke points" (wormholes, stations, ion storms) where you will be more likely to find people. Also, the current population is not as large as the population will be when the game hits the streets, so there will be more people to fill the space.
"3. The Boost Engine
I dont see how you can kill anyone as long as the boost drive is in. Couple the boost drive with insector Warp = no chance for PVP kill unless you get someone asleep at the wheel."
Amen, brother! Again, the engines used to be set up where the fastest engine drained energy more quickly than the slower engines, and this lent itself to a kind of trade off: you could have fast boost for short periods of time or slower boost for long periods of time. Traders tended to use the slower boost engines because it was more effecient over long distances. Pirates tended to use fast boost engines because they could lie in wait along a trade route and get a shot at overtaking a trader. Kind of like a short-sprinting cheetah going after a slower gazelle that had more stamina. So to sum all that up, the problem isn't having boost, it's having engines that can boost indefinitely at 200 m/s.
Personally, I prefer the present situation with too few pirates to what we had back in 0.3.x where you couldn't cross a sector without being blown to bits half the time.
<I've been advocating for a while now that a short (3-5 second) countdown timer be reinstated before sector warp.>
The problem with that, though, is that it becomes impossible to run away if you're being pursued. Traders become sitting ducks unless they have a marauder. Not everyone can fly an atlas like Hoax. :P
It's a tough problem to solve. We need more creative solutions.
The chance for you 5.7k testers to prove your worth. :P
The problem with that, though, is that it becomes impossible to run away if you're being pursued. Traders become sitting ducks unless they have a marauder. Not everyone can fly an atlas like Hoax. :P
It's a tough problem to solve. We need more creative solutions.
The chance for you 5.7k testers to prove your worth. :P
"Personally, I prefer the present situation with too few pirates to what we had back in 0.3.x where you couldn't cross a sector without being blown to bits half the time."
Except if this game gets enough people, it won't have "too few" pirates, so these issues may as well get resolved now, instead of when they become a problem that turn people away.
Except if this game gets enough people, it won't have "too few" pirates, so these issues may as well get resolved now, instead of when they become a problem that turn people away.
What we need is to have certain trade goods only available from certain sectors, to give traders an incentive to pass through the grey sectors.
More ion storms would also help, although they could get annoying if every jump you make is interrupted. We might be able to solve that problem by having the locations of storms in monitored areas shown on the map and have the nav computer automatically plot a course around them, but make them still invisible in the unclaimed systems.
More ion storms would also help, although they could get annoying if every jump you make is interrupted. We might be able to solve that problem by having the locations of storms in monitored areas shown on the map and have the nav computer automatically plot a course around them, but make them still invisible in the unclaimed systems.
If you force traders to goto dangerous sectors for profitable trade, then they will need fighter escort.
I think the trader should have a option to pay the escort for services rendered and the escort should also benefit from extra skill\licence points.
This could cater for people who are looking to get some PvP!
You could have a league table of the best escort pilots, thus giving you something to strive for.
I think the trader should have a option to pay the escort for services rendered and the escort should also benefit from extra skill\licence points.
This could cater for people who are looking to get some PvP!
You could have a league table of the best escort pilots, thus giving you something to strive for.
The concept of escorts will only work if they feel the fee justifies the risk. Can a trader make enough money in one trip to cover the cost of replacement of one maybe 2 escorts ?
Thats the problem most games have ...balance!
There must be some way that a escort can benefit from helping out?
Suggestions on a postcard :P
There must be some way that a escort can benefit from helping out?
Suggestions on a postcard :P
I disagree.
1) DEFBOT
I am Serco, and made my first trading run in Itani space at the first day after reset with a standard vult and medium battery.
The Itani defense killed me at my first try, then i knew how to run. (and i had to cross 3 guarded sectors, to find bots i can handle with this level). Two killed bots later i was -599, and Itani Striking force are no problem anymore.
If that is doable with lvl 4/3/2, it shouldt be easy later.
No need to change that.
2) PIRATES
If I wouldt be a Pirate, I wouldt camping in central storms. The Target can not warp away there, and is stressed because of the storm and the bots there. Easy kill, if you ask me.
3) PvP
You can allways ask other Pilots to /duel.
That is PvP. That is doable, and common used.
I think, what you mean is "backstabbing an unsuspecting trader"
That is no PvP, that is pirating. See 2)
P.S. Sorry for bad grammar and spelling. English is not my language
1) DEFBOT
I am Serco, and made my first trading run in Itani space at the first day after reset with a standard vult and medium battery.
The Itani defense killed me at my first try, then i knew how to run. (and i had to cross 3 guarded sectors, to find bots i can handle with this level). Two killed bots later i was -599, and Itani Striking force are no problem anymore.
If that is doable with lvl 4/3/2, it shouldt be easy later.
No need to change that.
2) PIRATES
If I wouldt be a Pirate, I wouldt camping in central storms. The Target can not warp away there, and is stressed because of the storm and the bots there. Easy kill, if you ask me.
3) PvP
You can allways ask other Pilots to /duel.
That is PvP. That is doable, and common used.
I think, what you mean is "backstabbing an unsuspecting trader"
That is no PvP, that is pirating. See 2)
P.S. Sorry for bad grammar and spelling. English is not my language
The defbots were introduced into home territory because certain players *cough* *cough* were flying into enemy space and trashing everyone in the sector. They have to be vicious to discourage this occurring again and new players becoming frustrated.
There ARE Patrol/Assault missions to invade enemy space, with the same sector being given to both parties (ie. catalyst for a PvP battle)...
1. The sector warp drive - I think it was intended that you had to remain stationary for a few seconds before you could warp, but I strongly suggest that this is NOT re-implemented as it will make incursions into enemy space totally impossible... Something needs to done about it, but I don't know what...
2. The capartmentalization of space - If you want to see some PvP action go into the "grey" systems, ie. Latos, Sedina, Odia, Bractus. I don't see a problem with waiting around wormholes, its an obvious ambush point, and you should expect it... Storms should be a good ambush point, but from what I've seen different players don't get the same exit point, so the chances of catching someone are minimal. Also, you aren't going to sit around waiting in a storm sector with loads of bots constantly hassling you...
3. The Boost Engine - This engine is fine, except that it currently draws too little off the battery, allowing infi-boosting... We never used to have this problem as you could switch engines in ships just like you can do with batteries. Pirates preferring faster (and more draining) engines, traders preffering slower (more efficient engines). The balance has been disrupted and i'm not sure why...
As said, if you want PvP you should go into the more dangerous regions of space, ie. Odia M-14. See you there! ;-)
There ARE Patrol/Assault missions to invade enemy space, with the same sector being given to both parties (ie. catalyst for a PvP battle)...
1. The sector warp drive - I think it was intended that you had to remain stationary for a few seconds before you could warp, but I strongly suggest that this is NOT re-implemented as it will make incursions into enemy space totally impossible... Something needs to done about it, but I don't know what...
2. The capartmentalization of space - If you want to see some PvP action go into the "grey" systems, ie. Latos, Sedina, Odia, Bractus. I don't see a problem with waiting around wormholes, its an obvious ambush point, and you should expect it... Storms should be a good ambush point, but from what I've seen different players don't get the same exit point, so the chances of catching someone are minimal. Also, you aren't going to sit around waiting in a storm sector with loads of bots constantly hassling you...
3. The Boost Engine - This engine is fine, except that it currently draws too little off the battery, allowing infi-boosting... We never used to have this problem as you could switch engines in ships just like you can do with batteries. Pirates preferring faster (and more draining) engines, traders preffering slower (more efficient engines). The balance has been disrupted and i'm not sure why...
As said, if you want PvP you should go into the more dangerous regions of space, ie. Odia M-14. See you there! ;-)
"P.S. Sorry for bad grammar and spelling. English is not my language "
You have not done to bad, considering it is not your first language :)
P.s. how the hell did you get to "lvl 4/3/2", since the reset?
As you can gather I'm a n00b :)
You have not done to bad, considering it is not your first language :)
P.s. how the hell did you get to "lvl 4/3/2", since the reset?
As you can gather I'm a n00b :)
If in system warps require a full battery, a slight, non artificial timer is added. This would be a good solution IMHO, if coupled to more specifric engines for different ships (large cargo, heavy bombers can go 200ms, but drain an FC etc)
There is more to PvP than dueling... Where are the factional conflicts, raids and fleet battles ? Defbots are a joke and completely distasteful for any veteran of space sims.
Why would someone want to buy this game if in all the reviews they read how boring and mundane killing AI is, and that it ultimately leads to nothing but more of the same.... ?
I'm doing what I can to get up in "levels" to see if I can get into the pvp.... but what pvp ? if I can't find a fight as a noob, where will I find a fight at the end game ? (those thinking they can type "/duel" as an answer, please... quit while your ahead)
Why would someone want to buy this game if in all the reviews they read how boring and mundane killing AI is, and that it ultimately leads to nothing but more of the same.... ?
I'm doing what I can to get up in "levels" to see if I can get into the pvp.... but what pvp ? if I can't find a fight as a noob, where will I find a fight at the end game ? (those thinking they can type "/duel" as an answer, please... quit while your ahead)
Maybe they should have bots to just protect the station areas and in very few roid areas for the n00bs to shoot at.
StoVorKor:
The combat training mission will give you lvl 4. Just Pick the mission, and bot the hell out of the collectors :)
With 1000 XP bonus, you should reach lvl4 in 2-3 hours.
Combat:
- Try to do border patrol missions (you are NT, and have no border mission? - join Serco or Itani, if you want to be in a war)
- Hang out in unalligned sectors like Odia
- /msg Icarus "i am in Odia M-14! catch me! :P"
- group up for hive queen killing
The combat training mission will give you lvl 4. Just Pick the mission, and bot the hell out of the collectors :)
With 1000 XP bonus, you should reach lvl4 in 2-3 hours.
Combat:
- Try to do border patrol missions (you are NT, and have no border mission? - join Serco or Itani, if you want to be in a war)
- Hang out in unalligned sectors like Odia
- /msg Icarus "i am in Odia M-14! catch me! :P"
- group up for hive queen killing
Kill Kill Kill then :P
It's really not that hard for a Serco/Itani to get across the border and kill one bot.
That's all I had to do and now I can roam Serco space freely.
But I think the point has to be brought up that what you are seeking as PvP would not be consensual. If you want to fight someone, you /duel them, It's not supposed to be easy to pirate/kill randomly.
Don't you think your own nations space should be relatively safe?
How would you like it if you got shot out of the sky every time you undocked, and didn't even get a chance to level up in order to defend yourself?
As for the border patrol missions, they are indeed PvP, just it tends to be rare that a Serco and Itani manage to take them at the same time in order to meet up in the sector. I think if you wait a week or so for the over 1000 noobs to get settled you'll see a lot more PvP action.
That's all I had to do and now I can roam Serco space freely.
But I think the point has to be brought up that what you are seeking as PvP would not be consensual. If you want to fight someone, you /duel them, It's not supposed to be easy to pirate/kill randomly.
Don't you think your own nations space should be relatively safe?
How would you like it if you got shot out of the sky every time you undocked, and didn't even get a chance to level up in order to defend yourself?
As for the border patrol missions, they are indeed PvP, just it tends to be rare that a Serco and Itani manage to take them at the same time in order to meet up in the sector. I think if you wait a week or so for the over 1000 noobs to get settled you'll see a lot more PvP action.
<It's not supposed to be easy to pirate/kill randomly.>
It is supposed to be possible. Right now the vaunted "war" between the Itani and Serco consists of defbots raping people left and right. Hardly fun.
<How would you like it if you got shot out of the sky every time you undocked, and didn't even get a chance to level up in order to defend yourself?>
Let's not resort to strawmen, shall we? No one is suggesting this be possible. What we are asking for is that it be POSSIBLE to be a pirate in another nation's space, if only on the border systems. Stations should still have defbots.
It is supposed to be possible. Right now the vaunted "war" between the Itani and Serco consists of defbots raping people left and right. Hardly fun.
<How would you like it if you got shot out of the sky every time you undocked, and didn't even get a chance to level up in order to defend yourself?>
Let's not resort to strawmen, shall we? No one is suggesting this be possible. What we are asking for is that it be POSSIBLE to be a pirate in another nation's space, if only on the border systems. Stations should still have defbots.