Ok...I hearby form the Hersir Confederacy....a loose collection of city-states, err players, to fight pirates and just generally get really rich...

It's legitimate because nobody is cheating. How can you punish someone for playing within the game's bounds and not breaking any rules? It's labeled incomplete for a reason.

Um, why not try this.

www.defenseships.uni.cc if you need an escort or a sector cleared out.

I salvage as a newb when bigger players kills bots.

I invoke the right to parlay!

Anyway, the reason why you pirate is a)To collect bounties greater than 200, or b)to take their cargo. I'm guessing he had no high bounty, so he dropped his cargo in interest of keeping his ship. Makes sense? He keeps his ship, you keep his cargo. Anyway, is tri-tachyon wise for pirating, it gives them to much time to gun it or evade to the next wormhole...

As a trader and a past pirate, I disagree with everything Arolte said from the point of view of a n00b. Pirating places like 17 and 9 are fine, they're out away from things. But I think it's just plain rude to pirate 7/11/13/5. In those sectors, it's mostly n00b traders since all routes give better profits in either 10, the hidden sectors, 9 or home sectors. What you're saying is that you feel you have the inalienable right to grief anyone for the reason of pirating, without offering recourse, when said person may have no allies to ask for help from and indeed may not even know how to chat. You're saying that "if you can't handle it, leave". In my experience, many people take your advice, and never come back. We don't get a lot of n00bs that stay, compared to many other online games. We certainly get a lot that leave, though. It's bloody frustrating to come online at an odd time (for the world, but perfectly normal for you) and get killed over and over for no reason whatsoever. You try to kill bots, someone comes in and kills you for your bounty. You try to trade, someone follows you around and kills you for your widgets. You figure out how to ask for help and realize there's 4 people on, none of whom are interested in helping you. So you leave. And you come on the next day. And the same thing happens, so you go away to play Vegastrike some more. What you [Arolte and Archon et al] are saying is that not only should we allow pirates and griefers, but we should encourage them. What a community-friendly motive. And, before any of you say it, a pirate as Arolte discribed it is far worse than a griefer. A good pirate takes once then leaves alone. A very good pirate takes the cargo and spares the ship. But a pirate as described by Arolte is a griefer that takes the cargo too. So, if I ever hear even a peep out of any of you about griefers, or community (or lack thereof) or Itani griefers, or anything else along that vein, well, I'll be almost as ashamed of you as I am now. Thank you for reading my very long run-on sentence.

Let me state again that there are no official rules to pirating. Roguelazer, you're frustrated when someone gets pirated repeatedly, that's fine. But as angry as it makes you it's still a legitimate form of gameplay. Some pirates have a soft spot for being extra nice by allowing the jettison of cargo. I personally feel it's silly to ask for cargo when real pirates used to set ships on fire upon grabbing all the loot. But I for one have stopped destroying buses.

The point of any RPG game is that you can make your character as good or as bad as he/she wants. And as I said as long as no rules are broken it's fair gameplay. To some this is frustrating, but either way they need to suck it up and accept it. If you're truly affected by it start a character that hunts down these individuals. Nobody is stopping you from doing so.

I'm sure the devs never had the intention to allow newbies to be hunted so easily. In fact there was some talk of a penalty system a while back. But just like how everyone is coping with unbalanced ships and weapons right now, we'll also have to cope with the lack of such a feature. When newbies download the game, the signup page expicitly states that this is an incomplete game. So if they don't have the patience to learn it or adapt, they might as well just leave.

Pirates aren't respected, Roguelazer. But they exist, and the devs are not about to disable damage. Your idea of combat is for each player to line up at 2000 meters after agreeing not to dock, and then engage in battle.

"So, if I put down my sword, you'll put down my sword, and we'll kill each other like civilized men?"

Riiiiight.

You've missed the point Camps. Roguelazer was talking about the effect pirates have on the community, and he is right. If there was some incentive to go after pirates or if there was any profit in escorting traders it might be different, but there just isn't. Very few traders are willing to take a cut in profits for the security of an escort and going after pirates hurts you a lot more than it does the pirate. The pirate at least has some income, however small, while the hunter gets about 40cr a kill and no cargo to keep. Thus, we get lots of pirates and nobody to keep them in check. Too many pirates = lots of pissed off n00bs = less players overall. Is that what you want?

"Yes, this is a game Test that's full of holes, but this doesn't excuse people from being responsible for themselves."

Said by a dev.

I have a fairly effective tactic that may get me into a bit of trouble (people /wanting/ to get killed by me... which is an odd concept). I generally do not pirate. I enjoy the challenge of working up the bots, defending my flag, and trading (often running like the wind from someone who, though asked, will not get bent). The odd time that I do pirate, I do so with my own twisted ethics. If the person had cargo, I take a little, and leave the rest for him to come back and fetch. If the person complains, or was in a particularily expensive ship, or I'm feeling generous, I give them 30-300k credits, depending on my mood.

If they get irate, as has happened twice, I apologize. Most of the time I'm in a Rag, and am quite suprised when I actually kill someone with the slowest homing rockets in the game. ^_^

As a person who's known to occasionally trade, I get really bored. I fly around and wonder, "Where are the pirates?" At any given time I have gotten away with a.) saying that I was trading b.) bragging about how well I was doing with my routes and even c.) saying which routes I was running without being bothered by pirates. DRAB. I understand n00bs must be protected, so whatever happened to teamwork. Now roguelazer, I'll save some bandwidth by saying that, yes, I know you do your best to help your team mates but you can't always be on. I understand, but Arolte has a point. I got my ass beat, so I just traded when the pirate count was low and learned to at least run away from pirates, if not just flat out kill them. I'd like to see a more supportive community, especially from those who have been here a while. I also wish more n00bs would ask for help. I really like training new players, although I'm a bit under-qualified.

Actually, the griefing didn't start seriously until 3.2. In 3.1, yeah, Icarus or Phoenix would bother you in 9 sometimes, but it was pretty peaceful. Even though the n00b sectors (4, et al) were practically undefended, almost nobody griefed n00bs. Then, people did, blaming it on the "state of the community making them mad". Every person that lashed out in rage made it worse. Your arguement of "let the n00bs fend for themselves" strikes me as similar to "What has the next generation done for US?". Even though the game protected newbies LESS, there was less griefing in the past. Now you're saying that we should indeed make MORE griefing and encourage it?

Nope, the griefing in 3.0.x wasn't any less than it is now. True, there were fewer people, but there were also fewer sectors. It only took like 3 mins at the most to go from one home sector to another back then. Point being, the ratio for number of pirates to number of sectors is probably around the same right now.

i feel that this is a problem not at all related to the game, but the people. If you dont want your newbs to be griefed, defend them. There are almost always atleast a few (heh, five a's...) vets on. If the vets dont want to help the newbs (which is commonly the case) then...they suck.... i dunno...tired... basically i feel that if they want to, the vets have the ability to protect their newbs.

But do they want to?...

The game won't become a game unless a publisher buys it. Right now, we have a very, very small player base. Griefing and killing without any verbal justification or explanation simply drives away what newbies we get. When publishers look at this game, they see a 'test' that has been going on for what, two years now, with incredible new player turnover. They may realize that this is because we are a community infested with arrogant egotisical jerks, but in all likelihood they will simply conclude that the game doesn't appeal to a broad base of people. And not buy it.

Really, this whole justification of "hey I'll do it because I can" is incredibly shortsighted. Whenever I pirate I give three warnings to jettison and only take four widgets. The fun is in the chase for me, not the PK. And traders who do get pirated by me don't quit in frustration over having lost a 30k ship and 50k in cargo, because they only lost 4 widgets. Your ego may need stoking by wiping the floor with those less skilled than you, but all it's doing is ensuring that you won't be able to do it in the future.

Think ahead, and do whatever you can to get this game a publisher, even if it (gasp) means not having the maximum amount of fun for a month or two. All the griefers who actually have the skill and power to grief someone out of the game are vets, and hopefully have enough intellectual capacity and love of the game to care more about the future of Vendetta than another newb PK.

If the game gets a publisher, then I'll shut up. Until then, THINK about your actions and stop it with the ridiculous power tripping.

Starfisher, two things....

-----
Whenever I pirate I give three warnings to jettison and only take four widgets. The fun is in the chase for me, not the PK. And traders who do get pirated by me don't quit in frustration over having lost a 30k ship and 50k in cargo, because they only lost 4 widgets.
-----

All that is basically "I am holier than thou." The fun for you may be the chase, but not the PK, but it's irrelevant. That's opinion and varies from person to person, and one is not better than another, relatively.


-------
Think ahead, and do whatever you can to get this game a publisher, even if it (gasp) means not having the maximum amount of fun for a month or two.
-------

The whole concept of playing a game is to have "fun." In games like Scrabble you have "fun" by gaining the most points by completing the best words across the best bonuses. In Chess, you gain points by completing in the least amount of time and by "capturing" pieces. In the vast majority of video games, you have "fun" by watching a certain reaction occur: You press button, nifty weapon visual leaps out on the screen, explosion or blood burst occurs, and finally something is added to your "score."

Other nonviolent means of having "fun" in Vendetta is trading, which involves watching another type of "score" go up (money). An activity that benefits neither score nor money will eventually cease to become fun. Asking for someone to renege on one of these activities is asking them not to have fun. It comes down to the newbie and the vet, and the vet wins. Granted, a reputation system solves this by giving both the vet and the n00b a third "score" to worry about--their reputation. But as Arolte said, you cannot fault him for something that doesn't exist. Let him have fun in the legit way he can, and he'll let you have fun in the legit way you can. Insisting that he stop might as well be telling him to get out of the game, because that is what makes Vendetta fun for him.

As long as I have known, Pirates have been around, even if they dont display themselfs untill you are dead =)
Life goes on.

If you get pirated, take a 5 minute break, gather up what you have left, and move on.
You wernt the first, and wont be the last.
Be thankfull for the players who ask you to drop the cargo, And try to use the death experiance from the others, to avoid them.
check a sector with the u button as soon as you enter.
Stay close to team populated sectors.

Dont be a hero ask for help.
If you respond to a team mate asking for help, they will generally remember, and back you up next time.
Also ask if anyone is avalible to escort your Cent or Maud. Safety in numbers. a pirate is less likely to attack when 4 Valks are escorting you. They dont ussally have the money to support 3 or 4 more valks. And besides that, they are ussally homed in s18 or in s4.
Consider this when picking a trade route. Just because you make 7k per widget doesnt mean traveling 6 sectors is worthwile or safe.

Most important rule
Dont risk what you carnt afford
ie. Flying a Maud around when you carnt afford to fill it with widgets
ie. Carrying all your money invested in Widgets

edit, Almost missed a point =)
Read the forums, You want to know who the pirates are, most will tell you who they are in the forums on rants like this =)

Camps you ignored the main point of my post. Please address it.

Might as well reiterate: When you pirate/grief people, driving them away from the game for your 'legit fun', you keep the player base at its very low level. Publishers see that small playerbase and think that the game doesn't appeal or is too hard. They don't buy it. Your 'legit fun' might keep happening for a while but it will kill this game.

I have nothing against pirating, so long as you make some effort to explain wtf you just did to the newb you killed (Simple pirate bind takes care of this). I don't and probably will never understand griefing, or the way players like to say, "That's it, I'm going to grief you dry." How the hell does that do ANYTHING but hurt the game?

Like I said, once the game has a publisher and is on track to be released, then you can do whatever the hell you want and I won't say a thing. Then Guild will need griefers so they can find an effective system to discourage grieifing in general. But now, the last thing Guild needs is people keeping the community small.