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I used to shoot people that thought grey space was some type of "oh, let's just wander around here..., and *uck um type thing". Personally just cause it annoyed me to no end. I could ramble on and on about why I haven't played this game in years, minus the holiday deal, (thanks devs!) but ya. Oh, and hopping into nation space was fun for tanking people's standing also. ;)
That is all.
That is all.
I think it's better to have a balanced feel for it all. I've been a pirate, miner, trader, hive farmer, manufacturer, soldier, spontaneous murderer, aggressive trader, etc.
There's a certain "enjoyment" to doing whatever the hell ye want when ya feel like it.
There's a certain "enjoyment" to doing whatever the hell ye want when ya feel like it.
>IMHO, I believe "Scuba Steve 9.0" hit the nail squarely on the head.
Thanks! 😳
I do want to emphasize though that I’m not trying to make a moral or value judgement when I describe the skill ceiling. Instead I’m shooting for a descruption of VO as a system.. and still with a few years of gap in my knowledge of how things work. With the usual caveat of being a few uears out of date, we can also compare this dynamic to Other Space Games like EVE— there, I think, the economic activities have a higher skill ceiling than moment to moment combat. At the same time, the near perfect knowledge of the markets makes getting started trading more difficult. Where VO could do better, I think, is in the travel aspect. Ion storms are an attempt at this, but it’s fair to say they can get pretty annoying due to offering *combat* risk to spice up your trading/mining gameplay. Maybe mechanics like Elite’s fuel and neutron star longjumps that introduce more complex routing decisions (in VO, maybe hidden/migrating wormholes).
Same with mining. It’s not that mining-as-a-profession has to necessarily have less of a moment-to-moment skill ceiling than combat— maybe something like different ores having different optimal extraction temperatures combined with rocks exploding/causing damage if they get too hot combined with environmental/ambient heat levels due to sun distance might make extracting ore more interesting.
There’s implementation complexity to these things to be sure and I don’t know how well suited the Naos engine is to handling that, but I don’t think the issue of everyone-old-turns-to-combat is necessarily insurmountable. That said, it’s certainly not addressable at the combat mechanics level.
EDIT: fwiw, my day job involves writing software for a freight forwarder and so, at least on the trade side of things, I think there moght be some interesting gameplay to be had dealing with the balance between scale and control. Larger shipments require more coordination between different agencies where any one agency can be a victim of delays, piracy, &c. Maybe a non-combat progression for trading looks like going from schlepping goods in your duckbill wraith to coordinating logistics deliveries against cost and faction standing where some of those deliveries won’t make it due to hive or player activity. This both supports and encourages the piracy side of gameplay by allowing for the free flow of goods and also doesn’t require players who wish to specialize in trading to directly suffer the anxiety/frustration/etc of being blown up for their cargo once they start working at a certain scale.
Thanks! 😳
I do want to emphasize though that I’m not trying to make a moral or value judgement when I describe the skill ceiling. Instead I’m shooting for a descruption of VO as a system.. and still with a few years of gap in my knowledge of how things work. With the usual caveat of being a few uears out of date, we can also compare this dynamic to Other Space Games like EVE— there, I think, the economic activities have a higher skill ceiling than moment to moment combat. At the same time, the near perfect knowledge of the markets makes getting started trading more difficult. Where VO could do better, I think, is in the travel aspect. Ion storms are an attempt at this, but it’s fair to say they can get pretty annoying due to offering *combat* risk to spice up your trading/mining gameplay. Maybe mechanics like Elite’s fuel and neutron star longjumps that introduce more complex routing decisions (in VO, maybe hidden/migrating wormholes).
Same with mining. It’s not that mining-as-a-profession has to necessarily have less of a moment-to-moment skill ceiling than combat— maybe something like different ores having different optimal extraction temperatures combined with rocks exploding/causing damage if they get too hot combined with environmental/ambient heat levels due to sun distance might make extracting ore more interesting.
There’s implementation complexity to these things to be sure and I don’t know how well suited the Naos engine is to handling that, but I don’t think the issue of everyone-old-turns-to-combat is necessarily insurmountable. That said, it’s certainly not addressable at the combat mechanics level.
EDIT: fwiw, my day job involves writing software for a freight forwarder and so, at least on the trade side of things, I think there moght be some interesting gameplay to be had dealing with the balance between scale and control. Larger shipments require more coordination between different agencies where any one agency can be a victim of delays, piracy, &c. Maybe a non-combat progression for trading looks like going from schlepping goods in your duckbill wraith to coordinating logistics deliveries against cost and faction standing where some of those deliveries won’t make it due to hive or player activity. This both supports and encourages the piracy side of gameplay by allowing for the free flow of goods and also doesn’t require players who wish to specialize in trading to directly suffer the anxiety/frustration/etc of being blown up for their cargo once they start working at a certain scale.
You can't make generalisations as people play for different reasons and on different levels. I've tried to be a pirate but never made any money, I've tried trading and mining and that's interesting at first but soon gets boring. I can't be bothered embarking on the hours of grind necessary for cap ship building.
My subscription has lapsed so now I dip in occasionally for 20 minutes and try and shoot as many players as I can in UIT before the strike force or turrets get me. Eventually I'll run out of money and have to do something more productive. This game does offer a lot of options.
My subscription has lapsed so now I dip in occasionally for 20 minutes and try and shoot as many players as I can in UIT before the strike force or turrets get me. Eventually I'll run out of money and have to do something more productive. This game does offer a lot of options.
I have been playing for years and have always been into the Building, Mining, and Trading part of the Game. I seldom chat on 100 as I have nothing I wish to share with the "mouths" on 100. I do, on occasion, answer some noob's questions, sometimes on 100 and sometimes in a PM to them.
Pirates are a part of the game. I respect many of them and chat with them some. The part of the game I don't like are the Griefers, those who are in it just to make the game miserable for the newer players. I have known many, as have others, who were just getting started in the game and some Griefer found them and shot them so much that they have quit. I believe the game should have safer places, like Nation Space (even UIT) where a new player could learn the game and not be bothered with Griefers. In my opinion, there should be something that stopped them from leaving their Nation Space before reaching at least Combat, Light, and Heavy level 3. The warning given is not read by them, just like all the stuff they should be reading during the beginning stages of the game. If there was less shooting up these new players, a lot of them would stay in game and even become skilled at some parts of the game.
Pirates are a part of the game. I respect many of them and chat with them some. The part of the game I don't like are the Griefers, those who are in it just to make the game miserable for the newer players. I have known many, as have others, who were just getting started in the game and some Griefer found them and shot them so much that they have quit. I believe the game should have safer places, like Nation Space (even UIT) where a new player could learn the game and not be bothered with Griefers. In my opinion, there should be something that stopped them from leaving their Nation Space before reaching at least Combat, Light, and Heavy level 3. The warning given is not read by them, just like all the stuff they should be reading during the beginning stages of the game. If there was less shooting up these new players, a lot of them would stay in game and even become skilled at some parts of the game.
The capital systems of each nation tend to be "safer spaces." Friendly fire is not allowed between two native ships in good standing. For example, in Dau, two UIT ships would not be able to hurt each other unless one of them had a standing of "Hated" or "Kill on Sight" with the UIT. This does not apply to foreign ships, no matter how high their standing.
"If there was less shooting up these new players, a lot of them would stay in game and even become skilled at some parts of the game."
I disagree. You're working from the assumption that those people are valuable, worthwhile contributions to the community who merely need more time to acclimate to the game before being exposed to danger. The reality is that those people are fundamentally incompatible with this game. What kind of person signs up for a game with a big mean word like Vendetta right there in the title, gets in their little newbie ship, ignores the prominent warning while entering the most dangerous, high-level section of the game, and then throws a fit when they die? That is not normal. Normal people might decide to venture into the danger zone at a low level if the game lets them, but they accept it when it gets them killed. They understand that they're taking a risk, and if they die, so what, right? It's just a game, and ships are cheap.
The people who flip their shit or ragequit, on the other hand? Those people have two big problems holding them back: they are blithering idiots, and their emotions are fragile. In a skill based PVP game like this, that combination is a recipe for misery. They will not be happy here, and tricking them into thinking otherwise by locking them in a safe space while they level up will only make it more painful when they realize they've been wasting their time.
If you really want to try to help them, you need to do it by somehow making them more emotionally robust, not by coddling them. I'm not sure how to do this, but I suspect that it involves making them die so that they can get the fuck over it. This is a game, and death is normal. So, have the final tutorial mission be an endless escalation rather than a fixed number of waves. Each wave gets bigger and meaner until the player dies. Warn them upfront that they will die and that the goal of the mission is merely to kill as many bots as possible before then. Tutorials are about being walked through core gameplay, and dying is core gameplay. Walk them through it.
I disagree. You're working from the assumption that those people are valuable, worthwhile contributions to the community who merely need more time to acclimate to the game before being exposed to danger. The reality is that those people are fundamentally incompatible with this game. What kind of person signs up for a game with a big mean word like Vendetta right there in the title, gets in their little newbie ship, ignores the prominent warning while entering the most dangerous, high-level section of the game, and then throws a fit when they die? That is not normal. Normal people might decide to venture into the danger zone at a low level if the game lets them, but they accept it when it gets them killed. They understand that they're taking a risk, and if they die, so what, right? It's just a game, and ships are cheap.
The people who flip their shit or ragequit, on the other hand? Those people have two big problems holding them back: they are blithering idiots, and their emotions are fragile. In a skill based PVP game like this, that combination is a recipe for misery. They will not be happy here, and tricking them into thinking otherwise by locking them in a safe space while they level up will only make it more painful when they realize they've been wasting their time.
If you really want to try to help them, you need to do it by somehow making them more emotionally robust, not by coddling them. I'm not sure how to do this, but I suspect that it involves making them die so that they can get the fuck over it. This is a game, and death is normal. So, have the final tutorial mission be an endless escalation rather than a fixed number of waves. Each wave gets bigger and meaner until the player dies. Warn them upfront that they will die and that the goal of the mission is merely to kill as many bots as possible before then. Tutorials are about being walked through core gameplay, and dying is core gameplay. Walk them through it.
Looks like some suggestions, in there.
Shove magictm based safe space ninnyism, get a gun and shoot back.
+1 pizzasgood. People accept death in call of duty or fortnight so readily, this game should be no different.
Honestly i'm probably going to start a new character and attempt to wreak havoc in my own little way. Although, i've made and leveled so many characters over the past 3 years it's become terribly boring to me,i might as well. Though, Johnny still has the most badges i've ever had(levi badge is at 14 levis thanks to Sieger's odd obsession with solo-ing levis, also thanks to Sieger for inviting my once-noob ass along with him.)
Anyways,i'll find somebody in the verse whenever i log in.)
Anyways,i'll find somebody in the verse whenever i log in.)