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and you are proud of driving people out of the game?
Again, Durgia, if people are driven out by gameplay issues, then odds are they won't stick around and hunt down elusive bugs. Or, they take the "game" part of it too seriously and cannot objectively evaluate the underlying framework.
Might I point out that a blue-red-gold treaty would be stupid, because 1/3 of the parties in the treaty would be ineffective. For lack of a better example, the Itani would be unable to curb Phoenix's PKing tendancies (now over 500 PK's). What use would that be?
As I've said before, until a reputation system _WITH PENALTIES_ is implemented, the biggest, baddest gun will set the rules. The treaty was made to create an even bigger, badder gun to counter the big, bad guns of a couple of Itani vets (and a couple that switched).
Might I point out that a blue-red-gold treaty would be stupid, because 1/3 of the parties in the treaty would be ineffective. For lack of a better example, the Itani would be unable to curb Phoenix's PKing tendancies (now over 500 PK's). What use would that be?
As I've said before, until a reputation system _WITH PENALTIES_ is implemented, the biggest, baddest gun will set the rules. The treaty was made to create an even bigger, badder gun to counter the big, bad guns of a couple of Itani vets (and a couple that switched).
what kind of penalty are you refering to that could stop the biggest baddest gun from setting the rules?
actually they are currently beta-testing 2 other games and I said this one was worth it. These 2 people anyway, left because reds and golds would not let them play or test anything. They had not skills and no money and were in gov busses...I can see no point why they were griefed enough to quit the game. If its for pk only then take pk records out. Honestly I am very disturbed at a gaming community that drives new players away. If that is the case for any extended period of time I will find a new game to play/test as well.
and b4 anybody says it I am aware this is not a beta, however I was just saying that to show bugs do not bother them as those betas have 10x the bugs as this test does.
I know somebody out there would have said it:P
and b4 anybody says it I am aware this is not a beta, however I was just saying that to show bugs do not bother them as those betas have 10x the bugs as this test does.
I know somebody out there would have said it:P
You can't blame the Alliance for the griefing that occur, Durgia. It would've happened anyway, really. A great deal of Neutrals and Serconians are quite pissed at the Itani Nation at the moment, due to their pirating and griefing. Sure, all nations have griefers and pirates, but heck - not anywhere near as many as the Itani Nation currently has. Before the Alliance was formed, the Itani Nation outnumbered the other two nations by nearly six to one.
Anyway... you Itani REALLY (really!) need to stop whining and start doing. Have you completely forgotten about this military of yours? Get it goin'. Start a "n00b protecting" squadron... anything!
'cos WHINING DOES NOT MAKE THINGS BETTER!
Most Neutrals and Serconians know that - t'was why we formed the Alliance, instead of whining about the matter, like you Itani are doing now. What good does it do? Do you expect the devs to give the Itani nation yet another overpowered ship..? Come in with their uber-UFOs and blast every frickin' Serco and Neutral there is to smitherens?
Anyway... you Itani REALLY (really!) need to stop whining and start doing. Have you completely forgotten about this military of yours? Get it goin'. Start a "n00b protecting" squadron... anything!
'cos WHINING DOES NOT MAKE THINGS BETTER!
Most Neutrals and Serconians know that - t'was why we formed the Alliance, instead of whining about the matter, like you Itani are doing now. What good does it do? Do you expect the devs to give the Itani nation yet another overpowered ship..? Come in with their uber-UFOs and blast every frickin' Serco and Neutral there is to smitherens?
Jeez.. I wish I was Forum Moderator.
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ok first off read my first post I said I don't care about the alliance itself, its a good idea. Some of the people in it are using it to greif players however.
Second, I am not talking as an Itani I am talking as a player, it is not just any one nation all of them are doing this. The community of this game is well...horrible, honestly. Pirating, griefing, pk races, this stuff is fine in small amounts, but it is way out of line now. B4 the reset people said it was because of too much money, but now its gotten even worse.
I don't care if I am on any of my 3 chars, each are in different nations and I hear the same thing from everybody. *We cannot play because [select color] is attacking us for no reason*
I am not blaming your alliance but I chose not to make a new thread about this since it would be a big flame pit anyway.
Second, I am not talking as an Itani I am talking as a player, it is not just any one nation all of them are doing this. The community of this game is well...horrible, honestly. Pirating, griefing, pk races, this stuff is fine in small amounts, but it is way out of line now. B4 the reset people said it was because of too much money, but now its gotten even worse.
I don't care if I am on any of my 3 chars, each are in different nations and I hear the same thing from everybody. *We cannot play because [select color] is attacking us for no reason*
I am not blaming your alliance but I chose not to make a new thread about this since it would be a big flame pit anyway.
Woaah, hold on you two. Durgia, you're ignoring the #1 Rule that presents itself in anarchy: The biggest, baddest gun wins. Deal with it. These guns are not inclined to listen to "reasonable" arguments, because they get a thrill from killing other players. Who wouldn't? No one has such a strong sense of in-game right and wrong that they wouldn't kill an enemy. These "PKers" just have a different definition of enemies. Anyone who shows up red on their radar is an enemy. It's not a completely foreign mindset. Just /hidelog, and realize that you're at war with the nation.
Now, second, since the biggest, baddest gun wins, it's foolishness to think that "everybody" has the right to be in any sector. Our BBG (biggest, baddest gun) decides whether they're going to be there or not (home sectors, for the most part, are excluded from this). People that are not the BBG need to realize they don't have the same "rights" as he does (being the BBG gives him these rights, because, frankly, he kills anyone who challenges him). If BBG is killing all traders that come in and out of 9/11, people are going to have to learn to avoid sectors 9 and 11. If they foolishly continue to fly through there, it's cause-and-effect, and they'll die.
DR, a proposed reputation system would require a team 0 (every man for himself/independent traders, bounty hunters, pirates; perhaps this would be the NT).
******EXAMPLE REPUTATION SYSTEM********
Itani government - generally committed to science, however, it is at war with Serco.
Serco government - warlike, kills everyone.
Neutral Territories a conglomerate of pilots and stations that take no part of the war. Sometimes caught in between the two factions.
Itani Government - You gain karma for every Serco you kill. You lose karma for every NT you kill. Set amount of karma gains/loses experience points (think, honor in America's Army)
Scourge of the Galaxy = -25,000 karma
Felon = -10,000 karma
Criminal = -5,000 karma
Lawbreaker = -500 karma
Small-town crook = -250 karma
Decent Guy = -100 to 100 karma
Citizen = 250 karma
Exemplary citizen = 500 karma
Upstanding pilot = 1,000 karma
Patriotic Solder = 5,000 karma
Decorated veteran = 10,000 karma
National hero = 100,000 karma
Serco Gov't = Same karma system. However, you gain karma for killing Itani-aligned NT pilots as well.
NT = Main gain karma for either faction by completing missions.
Karma explanation. At varying levels, you may find additional services open to you. As you delve into the negative realm, you will find that more basic services are closed to you.
For instance, at ? 500 karma, you cannot buy explosive ordinance or launchers for it.
At -250 to -500, you must pay a fee (bribe) to dock. Anything below that and the port is banned. As you fall lower, the station might send out ships to kill you if you enter the sector.
As you go higher, you might gain the ability to purchase deadlier weapons. A little higher and you would be offered access to that nation's shipyards, opening up an array of national (currently called "Special") ships.
Note that the NT also have their own reputation system, and while initially neutral to all Serco and Itani, they will begin to grow hostile to more militant pilots that kill NT ships. What would this do? Well, the independent sectors might not allow such pilots as Phoenix, Arolte, and Serco Fighter 1 to dock, given their reputation. However, if Arolte was careful only to target Itani ships, he would remain in the good graces of NT stations. However, stations closer to Itani territory would be more inclined to honor Itani pilots and be hostile to Serco.
To boil all this down, your hostile actions would have negative effects that harm you in some part of the galaxy. Targeting transport craft would harm your reputation faster than if you targeted fighters. However, targeting fighters would win more karma at home. It could also be possible to win karma with everyone if you targeted universally recognized lawbreakers (pirates). These would be a team of their own, with special pirate sectors that allow anyone to dock, regardless of reputation. However, docking there would have a negative effect at home, should a national patrol craft see you docking.
ETC. ETC.
Now, second, since the biggest, baddest gun wins, it's foolishness to think that "everybody" has the right to be in any sector. Our BBG (biggest, baddest gun) decides whether they're going to be there or not (home sectors, for the most part, are excluded from this). People that are not the BBG need to realize they don't have the same "rights" as he does (being the BBG gives him these rights, because, frankly, he kills anyone who challenges him). If BBG is killing all traders that come in and out of 9/11, people are going to have to learn to avoid sectors 9 and 11. If they foolishly continue to fly through there, it's cause-and-effect, and they'll die.
DR, a proposed reputation system would require a team 0 (every man for himself/independent traders, bounty hunters, pirates; perhaps this would be the NT).
******EXAMPLE REPUTATION SYSTEM********
Itani government - generally committed to science, however, it is at war with Serco.
Serco government - warlike, kills everyone.
Neutral Territories a conglomerate of pilots and stations that take no part of the war. Sometimes caught in between the two factions.
Itani Government - You gain karma for every Serco you kill. You lose karma for every NT you kill. Set amount of karma gains/loses experience points (think, honor in America's Army)
Scourge of the Galaxy = -25,000 karma
Felon = -10,000 karma
Criminal = -5,000 karma
Lawbreaker = -500 karma
Small-town crook = -250 karma
Decent Guy = -100 to 100 karma
Citizen = 250 karma
Exemplary citizen = 500 karma
Upstanding pilot = 1,000 karma
Patriotic Solder = 5,000 karma
Decorated veteran = 10,000 karma
National hero = 100,000 karma
Serco Gov't = Same karma system. However, you gain karma for killing Itani-aligned NT pilots as well.
NT = Main gain karma for either faction by completing missions.
Karma explanation. At varying levels, you may find additional services open to you. As you delve into the negative realm, you will find that more basic services are closed to you.
For instance, at ? 500 karma, you cannot buy explosive ordinance or launchers for it.
At -250 to -500, you must pay a fee (bribe) to dock. Anything below that and the port is banned. As you fall lower, the station might send out ships to kill you if you enter the sector.
As you go higher, you might gain the ability to purchase deadlier weapons. A little higher and you would be offered access to that nation's shipyards, opening up an array of national (currently called "Special") ships.
Note that the NT also have their own reputation system, and while initially neutral to all Serco and Itani, they will begin to grow hostile to more militant pilots that kill NT ships. What would this do? Well, the independent sectors might not allow such pilots as Phoenix, Arolte, and Serco Fighter 1 to dock, given their reputation. However, if Arolte was careful only to target Itani ships, he would remain in the good graces of NT stations. However, stations closer to Itani territory would be more inclined to honor Itani pilots and be hostile to Serco.
To boil all this down, your hostile actions would have negative effects that harm you in some part of the galaxy. Targeting transport craft would harm your reputation faster than if you targeted fighters. However, targeting fighters would win more karma at home. It could also be possible to win karma with everyone if you targeted universally recognized lawbreakers (pirates). These would be a team of their own, with special pirate sectors that allow anyone to dock, regardless of reputation. However, docking there would have a negative effect at home, should a national patrol craft see you docking.
ETC. ETC.
Yep, felon. That sounds about right.
add in the dynamic economy (which we've got, to a certain point) and smuggling and you have a real game... yes i know it isn't meant to be a real game right now
I'm wondering if a truly nuetral/pirate nation has been suggested before... a nation that would have no special ships or home sectors (home sector would be s9 perhaps) but could target anyone
-outrider
ps thx for explanation SirCamps, sorry if you had to repeat post, i just hadn't seen it explained before
I'm wondering if a truly nuetral/pirate nation has been suggested before... a nation that would have no special ships or home sectors (home sector would be s9 perhaps) but could target anyone
-outrider
ps thx for explanation SirCamps, sorry if you had to repeat post, i just hadn't seen it explained before
the problem I see atm is that almost every sector has a BBG so unless people want to trade in their home sectors they get killed. With the dynamic economy its impossible for new players to make profit.
I do agree Spellcast about you BBG rule, and as I said b4 in small amounts pirating/griefing/pk race is fun and adds to the game. But when it happens in every sector, for most of the day( not everybody likes logging in at 4am to trade) then we have a serious problem. When this leads to people actually leaving over the community not an aspect of the game we have a huge problem
I do agree Spellcast about you BBG rule, and as I said b4 in small amounts pirating/griefing/pk race is fun and adds to the game. But when it happens in every sector, for most of the day( not everybody likes logging in at 4am to trade) then we have a serious problem. When this leads to people actually leaving over the community not an aspect of the game we have a huge problem
/me remembers when the community was a lot different
For the reputation system, if you've got a good reputation you should be able to land anywhere...including at other faction's home sectors...
The community was different because it was much, much smaller.
This is the reason the treaty attempts are not working. There are too many people playing to have a reliable way to:
1) have a majority vote for a treaty,
2) inform everyone that a treaty has been ratified,
3) police one's own nation to insure the treaty is respected, and
4) punish the individuals who knowingly violated the treaty. It's a setup for failure. All it takes is one noob or one trouble-maker to throw the whole thing off.
I'm all for peace and allowing people to explore and playtest, but I think the treaty idea is currently just like a big bomb with a fuse anyone can reach and a sign that says "Don't light the fuse to the exciting bomb!" attached to it. Some people can't resist the urge to either light the fuse (attack) or blow up (retaliate).
Some of those who have posted here have been around for quite some time. I challenge you to _always_ hold yourselves to the values you expect others to adopt. YOU are the community. If most of the vets can get along, then most of the community will follow.
This is the reason the treaty attempts are not working. There are too many people playing to have a reliable way to:
1) have a majority vote for a treaty,
2) inform everyone that a treaty has been ratified,
3) police one's own nation to insure the treaty is respected, and
4) punish the individuals who knowingly violated the treaty. It's a setup for failure. All it takes is one noob or one trouble-maker to throw the whole thing off.
I'm all for peace and allowing people to explore and playtest, but I think the treaty idea is currently just like a big bomb with a fuse anyone can reach and a sign that says "Don't light the fuse to the exciting bomb!" attached to it. Some people can't resist the urge to either light the fuse (attack) or blow up (retaliate).
Some of those who have posted here have been around for quite some time. I challenge you to _always_ hold yourselves to the values you expect others to adopt. YOU are the community. If most of the vets can get along, then most of the community will follow.
"YOU are the community. If most of the vets can get along, then most of the community will follow."
Well said.
Well said.
DR & Lord Viking, the idea is that there would be several different reputation systems. My reputation with the Serco might be on the order of "Patriotic Soldier," but I'd be a felon to the Itani.
FM:
Amen, man. While many of the vets may abide by the treaty, it'd only take a newb or a troublemaker to bring it down. Just a thing happened today. A red was intent on pirating golds, and it was decided that he was exempted from the treaty and its protection.
It's the same as guilds now, there's no actual advantage, it just alters the behavior of a few. It's why this treaty is falling apart, why the Itani "government" is ineffective, it's why no one could stop me from my invasion of sector 6. Until guilds and a reputation system are implemented, such anarchy will persist. Simple fact of gaming.
FM:
Amen, man. While many of the vets may abide by the treaty, it'd only take a newb or a troublemaker to bring it down. Just a thing happened today. A red was intent on pirating golds, and it was decided that he was exempted from the treaty and its protection.
It's the same as guilds now, there's no actual advantage, it just alters the behavior of a few. It's why this treaty is falling apart, why the Itani "government" is ineffective, it's why no one could stop me from my invasion of sector 6. Until guilds and a reputation system are implemented, such anarchy will persist. Simple fact of gaming.
I find that when one plays when the "well known griefers" are not on, the game is MUCH calmer and in many ways, MUCH MORE FUN!!! I had a chance to meet Syne the other night, and frankly, he's the first true pirate that I've seen in a LONG time. It's been so long that I've FORGOTTEN how they truely act! He's more interested in the cargo than in the PK.
IMHO, if you find yourself getting upset when playing, play at a different time of the day. Or when certain people are not online.
P.S.
Durgia, flag caps are NOT meant to be the primary source of income. If you "need" to "help" new players, then TRADE rather than flag cap. We are supposed to be testing the dynamic economy and providing info on the economy to help the devs tweak it.
P.P.S
One thing that I would LOVE to see is the following: A "master panel" where you can see the sell price of all the cargo you own in all the stations. What would be even SLICKER is if you also showed the current buy price too!
IMHO, if you find yourself getting upset when playing, play at a different time of the day. Or when certain people are not online.
P.S.
Durgia, flag caps are NOT meant to be the primary source of income. If you "need" to "help" new players, then TRADE rather than flag cap. We are supposed to be testing the dynamic economy and providing info on the economy to help the devs tweak it.
P.P.S
One thing that I would LOVE to see is the following: A "master panel" where you can see the sell price of all the cargo you own in all the stations. What would be even SLICKER is if you also showed the current buy price too!
The whole reason people are complaing is that you have to be either an uber-vet, damn lucky or logged on at a weird time to be able to trade, thanks to the degree of pirating, etc.
Durgia brings up a good point that people seem to ignore: new players are leaving the game after a day or two because they cant do anything - a direct result of this "grief the noob" attitude that everyone seems to have.
I was lucky and came in a few weeks before the reset, which allowed me to learn some basics when money wasn't an issue. Now I can handle the pirates etc. If I had joined post-reset, I probably would have quit soon after being griefed a million times.
Durgia brings up a good point that people seem to ignore: new players are leaving the game after a day or two because they cant do anything - a direct result of this "grief the noob" attitude that everyone seems to have.
I was lucky and came in a few weeks before the reset, which allowed me to learn some basics when money wasn't an issue. Now I can handle the pirates etc. If I had joined post-reset, I probably would have quit soon after being griefed a million times.
FM: If most of the vets can get along, then most of the community will follow.
Im a vet and I am trying my hardest to bring the treaty down...
Im a vet and I am trying my hardest to bring the treaty down...
Furball I do trade for my own personal money which I keep around 1.5mils. I cap to get noobs in decent enough ships that they may stand a chance trading, or to fund anti-pirate forces.
I am not going to argue every little point. If anybody here actually thinks that it is a good thing that new players are quitting I really don't know whats wrong with you. It IS a problem and it is happening, if the vendetta test wants to grow any more it needs to stop. Maybe the devs want to keep the player numbers where they are I don't know. But any gaming community that is so bad that it makes people leave, needs fixing. No matter how many little points we could argue over.
I am not going to argue every little point. If anybody here actually thinks that it is a good thing that new players are quitting I really don't know whats wrong with you. It IS a problem and it is happening, if the vendetta test wants to grow any more it needs to stop. Maybe the devs want to keep the player numbers where they are I don't know. But any gaming community that is so bad that it makes people leave, needs fixing. No matter how many little points we could argue over.