My beef isn't with the valk's combat initiative, it's the lack of risk involved in picking a fight while in a valk. There is very little risk involved which means that the valk can choose when and where to fight. It has combat initiative over other specials, but also over every ship in the game. I submit to the fact that it should be a superior fighter to the vult, hog, and cent, but I do not think it should have the ability to dictate the terms of any fight. It takes at least 4 people to take out a cautious and experienced valk pilot. And even then it is really hard. That should say something about it's tactical advantage. It's obscenely high.

There's one problem with super powerful, super expensive ships. When a new player joins, other players will have had the chance to save up for weeks and buy these ships, and if they are really worth all those credits they will be so powerful that "cheap" ships won't have a prayer against them.

The only way a "super-ship" would work is if it came with a lot of attached responsbilities. Otherwise you have a bourgoisie of vets that can afford these ships ruling the game, and non-hard-core players will get easily discouraged.

Yeah, price is NOT a good way to balance things...

Arolte: absolute zero is a theory. It is impossible to reach absolute zero, EVEN IN SPACE. There is always some background radiation that keeps the temperature above 0K.

So the valk should be more expensive? By that reasoning the Prom and Maud should be jacked up in price as well. But, those ships don't are not worth that much money. The fact that you're saying the Valk should be more expensive proves that there is a balance issue associated with it in relation to the other specials. And then there is Phaserlight's argument about the bourgoisie of vets. Again, not a good thing.

"i suspect that screamers and jackhammers would be bitched about if they were used more. you cant mount them on agile ships, and a ship that has trouble maneuvering has trouble ramming."
-Exactly, that's why those weapons are relatively balanced. They could do with a tad more ammo though, but that's for another thread.

"I think the problem lies with the ammunition."
- I think the sunflares are fine. Use them in anything but a valk and they are quite balanced. Again, I think the problem lies in the fact that the ship is too hard to kill. The other specials cannot run away. The prom is a sitting duck if it doesn't have support (after flying it I have decided it does need a tiny hull boost, you were right Dave,) and the Maud, while good against most ships, gets reamed by the valk every time. The option to run away from every other ship in the game needs to be taken away from it. The fastest ship in the game ought to be very fragile. It shouldn't have the more firepower and armor than any other fighter. It just doesn't work.

I'm not quite sure what you mean, Renegade, but this is what I had in mind...

Itani
Advanced Fighter: Valkyrie
Advanced Bomber: Juggernaut
Merchant Vessel: Phantom

Notes: The Juggernaut could share a similar design to the Wraith, but much more stylized with a sharper but still round nose cone. The Phantom would be the super version of the Atlas; with four engines instead of two.

Serco
Advanced Fighter: Albatross
Advanced Bomber: Prometheus
Merchant Vessel: Redeemer

Notes: The Albatross is the advanced version of the Vulture, but with a canard wing design (dual winglets at the nose cone) for added agility. The Redeemer would share the sharp angled look of the Prometheus.

Neutral Territories
Advanced Fighter: Gradius
Advanced Bomber: Armageddon
Merchant Vessel: Marauder

Notes: The Gradius could be the advanced version of the current Hornet, with the same delta wing design and slitted cockpit windows, but with two engines instead of one. The Armageddon could be a more slender and agile version of the Ragnarok, but packing the same firepower at the expense of reduced cargo space.

The human body does not work at its full potential all the time, doing so would rip it apart, it only does so when the person is under stress. (this is why being under stress a lot is a bad thing)

Wouldn't this be true for ships? Sure, your engine can go this fast, but can the ship stand doing so for awhile?

I like Arolte's idea.

after losing 3 days worth of trading in a muad, by a tri-flare valk i have deicided that i'm not guna touch this game again till something is done about the HUGE avantage blues get and how the valk is the best ship by far.

Don't bother flameing this, you know it's true

Yes, we know it's true, and that's probably the reason of the countless topics posted about it.

.. what was the point of posting this, anyway?

"This is true because I said it and 'you know it's true, so don't bother responding.'"

1. Yes, Itani have the advantage, but this is in number only.

2. The Valk is not a ridiculously superior ship. Maybe to your Centuar it is, but it's evenly balanced across the board. (With a couple of attempts, I have now perfected the taking down of Phoenix's [for you newbs, one of the best Itani pilots out there] Valkyrie in my Wart Hog or Vulture.)

3. The tri-flare loadout has been addressed and was fixed. It's balanced now.

A single valk is not as dangerous as I once thought it was but a team of two valks is really impossible to beat.

Archon,

Most likely, this is/was a new player.

He/she impied Itani but Serco's are notorious for griefing in tri-flare valks. NT has more than a few valk jocks as well.

They lost much of what they had earned to a valk jock who griefed them with no regard for the other player's feelings. ("I'm having fun", I'm testing bugs", "EAT SUNFLARES SUCKER!", what have you.)

They were blowing off steam and expressing their opinion, there by adding to the countless other threads on the subject.

Discourse is good.

You know, as a Valk hater I decided to give it another try. Let me tell you that the Valk isn't as powerful as a ship as you think it is. HOWEVER, my weapon usage has a lot to do with this. I fly it using only tachyons, not the Gauss and Sunflares that everyone and their mom is using. Because this requires more aim and the damage inflicted is less, I'm vulnerable just like every other fighter in the galaxy (be it special or non-special). What attracted me to the Valk was its ability to get in and get out within the blink of an eye, which matches my hit-and-run style. To put it plainly, It's fast.

>3. The tri-flare loadout has been addressed and was fixed. It's balanced now.

I'm sorry, SirCamps, but this is most certainly not the case. The rate of fire was one of the problems, but it wasn't enough to fix it completely. Usually tri-flare Valk users take their time to aim. They've got plenty of it, since they have the speed advantage. So although they're not spamming rockets now, they're still able to hit their targets by "aiming" just like they did before. Nothing has changed in that department.

The proximity radius is the main issue here. Three sunflares combined in a triangular pattern results in a HUGE proximity radius that's hard to avoid. And I think one of the reason why people ram with rockets is because of its slow speed. If its speed was increased AND it was made into a contact only or 10m prox radius, THEN I believe it would finally be balanced. You solve three problems this way: you prevent ramming, you require the pilot to actually aim (*GASP*), and you wouldn't impose any loadout limitations to the player.

Arolte, the valk with tri-flares is balenced just fine, try taking one against a maud with the same loadout and who is intent on killing you. Also, the Tri-flare combo does little to increase the prox radius, they are 5m apart, and hencforth, only increse the 30m proximity bubble by 5m on each side, at the most, and mabye 10m in diameter

hmm I don't like arolte's suggestions.. but he has identified the problem fairly well.
The speed increase i'm not sure of it might help it might not.
As for reducing the prox radius.. uhh no thats a bad idea. the problem isn't the radius itself, but rathar the total lack of any form of safety on the warheads. Modern warheads have a built in safety fuse to prevent the weapon from being able to damage the firing craft. If the sunflare (and the screamer and the jackhammer) had a safety delay where they had to travel twice their prox radius before they could detonate, i think it would solve most of the ramming issues. starting back 500m and zipping up to fire off a rocket from 100m is a valid tactic.. and not a ram. getting so close that the rockets explode before they have finished exiting the firing craft thats a ram.

PS there is allready a very effective anti tri-flare valk weapon out there. it's called the railgun. When theat valk is turboing towards you, pop a railgun shot into it. he's gaurenteed to be moving in the same direction for a second or two.. and if he dodges he screws up his own attack.

srry bout early, was a little hot headed.
maybe the valk ain't the problem, but sunflares are
maybe make them unlinkable or only one per ship or something.

another note: i'm not new to this game, just not very good at it

I stand corrected.

I am with this "safety fuse" idea.

Flares should not explode on proximity for twice their prox radius (as Spellcast suggested), within that range they should only explode on *direct* impact with anything.

I could live with this idea.