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"Rogue, the problem with the vult is the wings."
The interesting thing about the vult is that it excels in 1v1 energy combat because if it turns to face you directly, it practically disappears. Rockets are a little more effective vs the vult because of their prox radius, but the vult can still dodge these easily because of its high agility. The vult's only real "Achilles heel" is fighting in a 'roid cluster because of the wing bug, or fighting multiple opponents, because the vult's top down profile provides an excellent target. Thus the vult is an excellent dueling ship, and a good-mediocre melee battle ship.
Rogue: Anyhow, you're not annoyed at the ship. You're annoyed at the pirates behind it. 2000c says that if every pirate in Vendetta flew a Vulture instead of a Valkyrie, this topic would be "Damn Vult".
Amen brotha! But I also agree with Magus that the Valk has no real weakness, and could probably use a *very* small increase of mass.
The interesting thing about the vult is that it excels in 1v1 energy combat because if it turns to face you directly, it practically disappears. Rockets are a little more effective vs the vult because of their prox radius, but the vult can still dodge these easily because of its high agility. The vult's only real "Achilles heel" is fighting in a 'roid cluster because of the wing bug, or fighting multiple opponents, because the vult's top down profile provides an excellent target. Thus the vult is an excellent dueling ship, and a good-mediocre melee battle ship.
Rogue: Anyhow, you're not annoyed at the ship. You're annoyed at the pirates behind it. 2000c says that if every pirate in Vendetta flew a Vulture instead of a Valkyrie, this topic would be "Damn Vult".
Amen brotha! But I also agree with Magus that the Valk has no real weakness, and could probably use a *very* small increase of mass.
Finally, some closure in this issue...
I fly a Valk almost exclusively, I can kill most things in a furball with an number of ships on both sides, but in a 1v1 situation against a Vult, this gets a little harder. I come out on top probably half the time, depending on the load out of the Vult.
IMHO, the Valk is only slightly out of balance on price. But the same could be said for the other specials. With the state of the economy at the moment, bumping the price of all the specials to the 100k to 250k mark would probably solve this. I also think that the ship specific load out idea is a good one. Maybe then the valks superior maneuverability/acceleration/speed (whatever you want to call it) could be explained or offset by a reduction in the rockets/seekers/projectiles it can carry. But this probably won't happen for a while (devs?).
Phaserlight: I completely agree. Back in the days of a 1800 hull Valk, it was pretty much what everyone flew (with some exceptions), now most people seem to prefer the Vult.
Magus: I think if we dropped the maneuverability/acceleration/speed of the valk, it would kill the 'thesis' behind the ship. It looks and acts like a high-speed interceptor, if we reduced its weapons capacity and increased its price, i think the effect would be the same.
I fly a Valk almost exclusively, I can kill most things in a furball with an number of ships on both sides, but in a 1v1 situation against a Vult, this gets a little harder. I come out on top probably half the time, depending on the load out of the Vult.
IMHO, the Valk is only slightly out of balance on price. But the same could be said for the other specials. With the state of the economy at the moment, bumping the price of all the specials to the 100k to 250k mark would probably solve this. I also think that the ship specific load out idea is a good one. Maybe then the valks superior maneuverability/acceleration/speed (whatever you want to call it) could be explained or offset by a reduction in the rockets/seekers/projectiles it can carry. But this probably won't happen for a while (devs?).
Phaserlight: I completely agree. Back in the days of a 1800 hull Valk, it was pretty much what everyone flew (with some exceptions), now most people seem to prefer the Vult.
Magus: I think if we dropped the maneuverability/acceleration/speed of the valk, it would kill the 'thesis' behind the ship. It looks and acts like a high-speed interceptor, if we reduced its weapons capacity and increased its price, i think the effect would be the same.
""Therefore, a valk pilot is at much lower risk than any other ship."
No, duh? I mean really, it's a special ship, it means it should be at lower risk, or else it wouldn't be special."
-A marauder is not at any lower risk than a wraith. A prom is flying target. They're specials too, so why can't they automatically decide when and where they want to fight?
No, duh? I mean really, it's a special ship, it means it should be at lower risk, or else it wouldn't be special."
-A marauder is not at any lower risk than a wraith. A prom is flying target. They're specials too, so why can't they automatically decide when and where they want to fight?
My idea was,
to have 3 ships, called lkike however you named them, im not in a creative mood today.
all these ships have in reference to a standard framework, certain characteristics. Now im just looking at what the nations are good at.
Itani: good at speed and as being scientists inventing some special things, like ecm and so on and so on.
this will come for them at a cost of hull.
so for example:
advanced fighter
base = 10k hull
top speed "boost" with a med engine: 180
top speed med engine: 55
3 weaponpods
0 special pods
4 cargo pods
for the itanis, this will be:
9k hull
top spd: 200
tp spd2:60
3 wps pod
1 special pod
4 cargo pods
for the serco:
11k hull
tp speed: 160
tpspd2: 50
3 wps pod "but the damage that they will inflict wil raise with 5%"
0 special pods
4 cargo pods
For the neutrals:
9.5k hull
tp speed: 190
tp spd2: 58
3 wps pods
0 spc pods
5 cargo pods
somethign like this arolte, every ship is different but still they come from the same basic shipdesign, namely the 3 sgips that we have today.
PS magus, no the maud and the prom and the valk are from the same quality, they only use an other way of fighting with it, if they are even needed as fighting ships. But they are still the best in what they do.
cheers
to have 3 ships, called lkike however you named them, im not in a creative mood today.
all these ships have in reference to a standard framework, certain characteristics. Now im just looking at what the nations are good at.
Itani: good at speed and as being scientists inventing some special things, like ecm and so on and so on.
this will come for them at a cost of hull.
so for example:
advanced fighter
base = 10k hull
top speed "boost" with a med engine: 180
top speed med engine: 55
3 weaponpods
0 special pods
4 cargo pods
for the itanis, this will be:
9k hull
top spd: 200
tp spd2:60
3 wps pod
1 special pod
4 cargo pods
for the serco:
11k hull
tp speed: 160
tpspd2: 50
3 wps pod "but the damage that they will inflict wil raise with 5%"
0 special pods
4 cargo pods
For the neutrals:
9.5k hull
tp speed: 190
tp spd2: 58
3 wps pods
0 spc pods
5 cargo pods
somethign like this arolte, every ship is different but still they come from the same basic shipdesign, namely the 3 sgips that we have today.
PS magus, no the maud and the prom and the valk are from the same quality, they only use an other way of fighting with it, if they are even needed as fighting ships. But they are still the best in what they do.
cheers
"PS magus, no the maud and the prom and the valk are from the same quality, they only use an other way of fighting with it, if they are even needed as fighting ships. But they are still the best in what they do."
-They certainly aren't and the fact that people suggest the valk be made rarer than the maud and prom prove it.
-They certainly aren't and the fact that people suggest the valk be made rarer than the maud and prom prove it.
Wohoooo! This must be the 1001th post about the valk being unbalanced! YAY!
Magus that is because a special is special in what it does. And for a fighter that is killing people.
for a tradeship, that is trading.
For a transport/bomber, that is stretching defense and being troublesome to take out.
For crying out loud; dont expect from a maud to take out a valk, same for a prom.
The reason why people are complaining about the valk is because they are good in what they do, and that is killing.
cheers
for a tradeship, that is trading.
For a transport/bomber, that is stretching defense and being troublesome to take out.
For crying out loud; dont expect from a maud to take out a valk, same for a prom.
The reason why people are complaining about the valk is because they are good in what they do, and that is killing.
cheers
well I don't expect fighters taking down bombers THAT easily.
You're missing the point completely. Giving one nation the ability to kill people easier than all the others gives that nation superiority in every way. Essentially, you get to play God with the lives of traders in other nations and they have to go to much greater lenghts to do the same to you.
Disregarding the previous "examples" (not saying their bad):
Arolte:
"Usually tri-flare Valk users take their time to aim. They've got plenty of it, since they have the speed advantage. So although they're not spamming rockets now, they're still able to hit their targets by "aiming" just like they did before."
That would be good. Before, it was spray and pray. Now, they have to take aim.
Magus:
"You get a valk flaming, it runs away. No other ship in the game has this luxury."
What's your goal here? To survive, or get the kill? If the Valk is flaming and turns to run, by all means, chalk up a psychological kill and go on your way. If you keep pursuing someone, they may turn around and bite you. If I'm trading in a Prom and I get a Valk to turn and run, I'm gonna head for the next sector and accomplish my mission (which is, to make money, not to kill Valks). If I want to kill Valks I'll grab some buddies and use teamwork.
paedric:
"Keep the agility, lower the armor. It's a fighter."
I disagree. Lower the ammo capacity. I believe in ammo capacities relative to each ship. The Valk is insanely fast. So instead of lowering the hull, give it reduced ammo capacity (or even give individual ports ammo capacities, with some having none [i.e., primary slots]). I've brought this up before.
****EXAMPLE****
Centurion's small port: 4 rockets max, 3 homers max, 4 geminis max
Valkyrie's two small ports (third has no ammo capacity): 8 rockets max each, 6 homers max each, 6 geminis max each.
Hornet's four small ports: 12 rockets max each, 10 homers max each, 12 geminis max each.
Ragnarok's three small ports: 20 rockets max each, 24 homers max each, 30 geminis max each
Ragnarok's two large ports: 20 rockets max each, 30 homers max each, 30 geminis max each.
[/example]
Disregarding the specific numbers, my goal is to handicap smaller ships by limiting their ammo. Heck, you could even trade cargo space for ammo, making the Marauder a very dangerous ship.
Arolte:
"Usually tri-flare Valk users take their time to aim. They've got plenty of it, since they have the speed advantage. So although they're not spamming rockets now, they're still able to hit their targets by "aiming" just like they did before."
That would be good. Before, it was spray and pray. Now, they have to take aim.
Magus:
"You get a valk flaming, it runs away. No other ship in the game has this luxury."
What's your goal here? To survive, or get the kill? If the Valk is flaming and turns to run, by all means, chalk up a psychological kill and go on your way. If you keep pursuing someone, they may turn around and bite you. If I'm trading in a Prom and I get a Valk to turn and run, I'm gonna head for the next sector and accomplish my mission (which is, to make money, not to kill Valks). If I want to kill Valks I'll grab some buddies and use teamwork.
paedric:
"Keep the agility, lower the armor. It's a fighter."
I disagree. Lower the ammo capacity. I believe in ammo capacities relative to each ship. The Valk is insanely fast. So instead of lowering the hull, give it reduced ammo capacity (or even give individual ports ammo capacities, with some having none [i.e., primary slots]). I've brought this up before.
****EXAMPLE****
Centurion's small port: 4 rockets max, 3 homers max, 4 geminis max
Valkyrie's two small ports (third has no ammo capacity): 8 rockets max each, 6 homers max each, 6 geminis max each.
Hornet's four small ports: 12 rockets max each, 10 homers max each, 12 geminis max each.
Ragnarok's three small ports: 20 rockets max each, 24 homers max each, 30 geminis max each
Ragnarok's two large ports: 20 rockets max each, 30 homers max each, 30 geminis max each.
[/example]
Disregarding the specific numbers, my goal is to handicap smaller ships by limiting their ammo. Heck, you could even trade cargo space for ammo, making the Marauder a very dangerous ship.
Wow. A Rag can hold... 150 geminis? Schweet... Hehe. But I do rather agree with that post more than most of the other ones in this excessively flamey thread.
"What's your goal here? To survive, or get the kill? If the Valk is flaming and turns to run, by all means, chalk up a psychological kill and go on your way."
-But they lose no significant amount of money, so while non-valks are under constant threat of dying, valks are not. Therefore, a valk pilot is at much lower risk than any other ship.
-But they lose no significant amount of money, so while non-valks are under constant threat of dying, valks are not. Therefore, a valk pilot is at much lower risk than any other ship.
Not really. I dunno what you're all worried about. These days, everyone flies either a valk or a trading vessel (pizzaship, centaur or atlas). I dunno why. Anyhow, I've run into plenty of Valks. They're no more "special" than some other ship. A tri-flare valk with hvy/hvy is not particularly superior to a dual-flare vult with heavy/heavy. The valk has 1k more health (not a giant advantage when each gauss shot does 1.2k) and a slight bit more maneuverability. The vult can be bought anywhere and has a thinner profile. Very balanced ships, in fact. Anyhow, you're not annoyed at the ship. You're annoyed at the pirates behind it. 2000c says that if every pirate in Vendetta flew a Vulture instead of a Valkyrie, this topic would be "Damn Vult". So don't take out your rage on an innocent ship, take it out on those behind the proverbial wheel.
I've never flown a valk since the reset, and I never really flew one before (except occasionally)... I like to use my dualgauss vulture... Rogue, the problem with the vult is the wings. With the valkyrie, it doesn't have anything like them to increase the area where it can be hit by sunflares. With its gigantic wings, the vulture has a much larger area that can be hit. It looks something like this:
-----/-\-----
-----\-/----- <--Vult
versus:
/--\
\--/ <--Valk
See the difference? :P
-----/-\-----
-----\-/----- <--Vult
versus:
/--\
\--/ <--Valk
See the difference? :P
Actually, it's more like:
-----0----- <-- Vult
/--\
\--/ <--Valk
But if you ever run into anything it's more like:
"vult is having issues" <--vult
/--\
\--/ <--Valk.
-----0----- <-- Vult
/--\
\--/ <--Valk
But if you ever run into anything it's more like:
"vult is having issues" <--vult
/--\
\--/ <--Valk.
Actually,the vult Has a smaller area, I have tested this numerous times, so they are harder to hit, not putting account the way the fly, maintaining a low profile and such, but still, the valk is waaaayyyy over balanced, giving the blues a major advantage, putting traders from other nations into danger and such... just a thought. Here are some examples that could be used to properly balance the valks
A. Make them sooo much more expensive, not just like 1mil, but more then that, like 1.2 or something
B. Give the other nations better fighters, this has been disgused
befor, it would make everything alot more fair
C. Get rid of em! That is the most simple way, they are a nuisance!
~Kyphro~
P.S. Please no flames, these are just my opinions! And nuttin on the spelling of anything either!
A. Make them sooo much more expensive, not just like 1mil, but more then that, like 1.2 or something
B. Give the other nations better fighters, this has been disgused
befor, it would make everything alot more fair
C. Get rid of em! That is the most simple way, they are a nuisance!
~Kyphro~
P.S. Please no flames, these are just my opinions! And nuttin on the spelling of anything either!
So... Neutral has the best tradeship which is also an excellent fighter... Serco has the new pirate favourite, best bomber and good trader... and Itani would get???
"and Itani would get???"
-Raped.
Which is why we don't want to get rid of the valkyrie. I only want the valk pilots to suffer the same risks as a non-valk. By that I mean make it unable to run away from non-specials. I'll say again, the fastest ship in the game shouldn't be a special. The valk isn't an advanced fighter because it is faster than everything else. It's advanced because it has more speed, armor, and firepower than everything else. Drop its speed, or give other fighters more speed, and it will still trump the other fighters in armor and firepower.
-Raped.
Which is why we don't want to get rid of the valkyrie. I only want the valk pilots to suffer the same risks as a non-valk. By that I mean make it unable to run away from non-specials. I'll say again, the fastest ship in the game shouldn't be a special. The valk isn't an advanced fighter because it is faster than everything else. It's advanced because it has more speed, armor, and firepower than everything else. Drop its speed, or give other fighters more speed, and it will still trump the other fighters in armor and firepower.
Umm... But any high or very high agility ship with the same engine as the Valkyrie has the same speed... The acceleration would be almost the same too. Similarly, if a Valkyrie had an efficient engine in it, any medium agility or higher (Maurauder, Warthog, Hornet, Centurion, Vulture) ship would be able to catch it. Yes, the heavy transport cannot outrun the light fighter. Duh. But the fighters are equal in terms of speed.
Okay here's a fact: there's always going to be one ship that has the best agility, and this ship will have combat initiative over all other ships. Right now if it's not the Valk, it would be the Vult. Take down the Valk's agility and the Vult will become the new Valk. My point? One ship has gotta be the fastest, so why not the Valk? It is a special, after all.