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@Keller" As it is, it's still basically a heavy Vulture." (abour the new raptor)
Well that doesn't seem to be quite true, as the raptor has mass identical to the vulture. If we compare the UDV to the SVG, we get
Slots: identical at 2S
Mass: identical at 3800
Speed: identical at 65 m/s
Turbo speed: identical at 225
Turbo drain: identical at 55
Thrust: SVG wins at 235 vs 215
Size: SVG wins at 12m vs 17m and much less profile
Turbo thrust: UDV wins at 300 vs 235
Spin torque: UDV wins at 8.5 vs 7.5, but this might be offset by the greater length?
Armor: UDV wins at 10500 vs 9000
So, the raptor has lower trust but better turbo trust and armor. I find it hard to judge spin torque vs length, can anyone enlighten me?
Edit: I ninja'd Inc. Is there an achievement for that? :-)
Well that doesn't seem to be quite true, as the raptor has mass identical to the vulture. If we compare the UDV to the SVG, we get
Slots: identical at 2S
Mass: identical at 3800
Speed: identical at 65 m/s
Turbo speed: identical at 225
Turbo drain: identical at 55
Thrust: SVG wins at 235 vs 215
Size: SVG wins at 12m vs 17m and much less profile
Turbo thrust: UDV wins at 300 vs 235
Spin torque: UDV wins at 8.5 vs 7.5, but this might be offset by the greater length?
Armor: UDV wins at 10500 vs 9000
So, the raptor has lower trust but better turbo trust and armor. I find it hard to judge spin torque vs length, can anyone enlighten me?
Edit: I ninja'd Inc. Is there an achievement for that? :-)
Excellent uptdate!
Unfortunately, someone doesn't think so, as the main update server is apparently under a 270mbit denial-of-service attack.
Looked at the Raptor stats earlier. Aside from a roughly 20% increase in armor, there really isn't much difference. I'd still like to see the thing with 2 Large Wep Ports. As it is, it's still basically a heavy Vulture.
Vulture SVG
Mass 3800
Cargo 2
SpinConst 7500
ThrustConst 235
TurboThrustConst 260
BrakeConst 260
TurboEnergyUsage 55
HitPoints 9000
TurboMaxSpeed 225
StormRadarRange N/A
Raptor UDV
Mass 3800
Cargo 6
SpinConst 8500
ThrustConst 215
TurboThrustConst 300
BrakeConst 300
TurboEnergyUsage 55
HitPoints 10500
TurboMaxSpeed 225
StormRadarRange 1500
----------------
So, it is not a "heavier vulture". It isn't heavier at all. It could be called a less maneuverable (lower ThrustConst) vulture with more armor that is faster at accelerating in a single direction, with a mediocre hit-profile (same old Raptor collision hull), and similar turning (higher SpinConst but offset by the worse distribution of mass in the collision hull). And also an integrated storm-radar.
And, as always, I'm open to tweaking things moving forward, but this seemed like a good starting point.
Unfortunately, someone doesn't think so, as the main update server is apparently under a 270mbit denial-of-service attack.
Looked at the Raptor stats earlier. Aside from a roughly 20% increase in armor, there really isn't much difference. I'd still like to see the thing with 2 Large Wep Ports. As it is, it's still basically a heavy Vulture.
Vulture SVG
Mass 3800
Cargo 2
SpinConst 7500
ThrustConst 235
TurboThrustConst 260
BrakeConst 260
TurboEnergyUsage 55
HitPoints 9000
TurboMaxSpeed 225
StormRadarRange N/A
Raptor UDV
Mass 3800
Cargo 6
SpinConst 8500
ThrustConst 215
TurboThrustConst 300
BrakeConst 300
TurboEnergyUsage 55
HitPoints 10500
TurboMaxSpeed 225
StormRadarRange 1500
----------------
So, it is not a "heavier vulture". It isn't heavier at all. It could be called a less maneuverable (lower ThrustConst) vulture with more armor that is faster at accelerating in a single direction, with a mediocre hit-profile (same old Raptor collision hull), and similar turning (higher SpinConst but offset by the worse distribution of mass in the collision hull). And also an integrated storm-radar.
And, as always, I'm open to tweaking things moving forward, but this seemed like a good starting point.
How abut removing that useless "Length" stat and replacing it with something actually relevant? ("Moment of Inertia?")
Unfortunately, someone doesn't think so, as the main update server is apparently under a 270mbit denial-of-service attack.
^ This is just sad. :(
Unfortunately, someone doesn't think so, as the main update server is apparently under a 270mbit denial-of-service attack.
^ This is just sad. :(
I assume that "UDV" is short for "Union Defense/Defender Variant"? Nice to see the Raptor getting some love.
It's exactly because it's underused that I wanted to buff one into something more interesting. Plus, it's always been a "UIT" type ship, intended for flexibility with things like integrated storm radar, I thought it fitted the character of the UIT wanting something usable in a lot of different scenarios.
Personally, I've always felt that the integrated storm radar was something of a consolation prize for the fighter being a bit of a lemon. I would assume that, in-universe, the sensor array still accounts for a fair amount of mass of the Raptor's mass (although presumably less than the equivalent aftermarket addon would), and it's effectively deadweight outside of an ion storm. While having the capability without needing to sacrifice a weapon port is admittedly handy, this makes the Raptor more of a specialist than a jack-of-all-trades, and considering who the intended end-users are, that pretty much pigeonholes it into the roles of hive hunter and convoy escort (it also has potential for piracy, but I think we can safely assume that use in that capacity violates TPG's EULA policy and voids the warranty).
It's exactly because it's underused that I wanted to buff one into something more interesting. Plus, it's always been a "UIT" type ship, intended for flexibility with things like integrated storm radar, I thought it fitted the character of the UIT wanting something usable in a lot of different scenarios.
Personally, I've always felt that the integrated storm radar was something of a consolation prize for the fighter being a bit of a lemon. I would assume that, in-universe, the sensor array still accounts for a fair amount of mass of the Raptor's mass (although presumably less than the equivalent aftermarket addon would), and it's effectively deadweight outside of an ion storm. While having the capability without needing to sacrifice a weapon port is admittedly handy, this makes the Raptor more of a specialist than a jack-of-all-trades, and considering who the intended end-users are, that pretty much pigeonholes it into the roles of hive hunter and convoy escort (it also has potential for piracy, but I think we can safely assume that use in that capacity violates TPG's EULA policy and voids the warranty).
The length stat is only useless for physics. I wouldn't want it removed, since having it makes it easier to make things like this. A moment of inertia stat would be very nice to have as well though.
A little off topic to this particular discussion, but how about a special badge for those of us who'd gotten 13 POS in the past? Similar to the one generated for the alpha and beta testers? Would make all those hours spent having gotten things like Itani/Serco/Valent/Axia POS not seem like such a waste of time.
The fact that storm radar's still work even though in the hold as opposed to being mounted, makes the integrated radar even less interesting.
If the Raptor's claim to fame is going to be its sensor suite, how about giving it extended range radar? The obvious effect of this is radar in storms, but in clear perhaps 10km or 7.5km range rather than the usual 5km? While I'd still like to see it with dual LPorts, enhancing its overall sensor suite would fit in with how it was originally built.
If the Raptor's claim to fame is going to be its sensor suite, how about giving it extended range radar? The obvious effect of this is radar in storms, but in clear perhaps 10km or 7.5km range rather than the usual 5km? While I'd still like to see it with dual LPorts, enhancing its overall sensor suite would fit in with how it was originally built.
The fact that storm radar's still work even though in the hold as opposed to being mounted, makes the integrated radar even less interesting.
They changed it a while ago to where storm extenders must be equipped.
They changed it a while ago to where storm extenders must be equipped.
The length stat is only useless for physics.
Pizzasgood, if the length stat actually represented the ship's size, you'd have a valid point, but Incarnate has already said that it's completely arbitrary and doesn't represent anything about the ship.
Pizzasgood, if the length stat actually represented the ship's size, you'd have a valid point, but Incarnate has already said that it's completely arbitrary and doesn't represent anything about the ship.
Prediction:
Within a few months, the active player list will show a substantial growth in Itani and Serco players. The UIT population will diminish and eventually settle on par with the newly populated Serco while the Itani population becomes dominant.
This will be preceded with a sharp rise in nation change request tickets.
Within a few months, the active player list will show a substantial growth in Itani and Serco players. The UIT population will diminish and eventually settle on par with the newly populated Serco while the Itani population becomes dominant.
This will be preceded with a sharp rise in nation change request tickets.
Inevitable, the storm radar in the hold trick was still working a couple of weeks ago. Are you saying it's been 'fixed' in that time. It seemed to be working last night.
ARF, in reality, if we had an inertial tensor defined for each ship (not just moment of inertia which is just the projection of the tensor along a specific defined axis; tensors are definitions of inertia along any possible axis of rotation), there'd be no need for 'length' as the concept of length would be defined within the tensor. I think that's where Rin's heading, and I happen to agree. Of course such things don't really make sense for people without a Physics background, but still. An inertial tensor would include things like the ship's length, width, thickness, mass, mass distribution, center of gravity, etc.
It's already happening. People are changing nations as we speak.
I guess this update was inevitable. But I would have like a 4th option when i was forced to chose factions. Something like "change to admire Itani and move all your stored stuff in serco space to your home station". I choose neutral on both serco and Itani so I could move my stuff to grey.
I thought the last change was ok when i couldn't have admire serco and Itani standing. I understand why it was done but a day's warning would have helped a lot of us deal with the drastic change
/2c
I guess this update was inevitable. But I would have like a 4th option when i was forced to chose factions. Something like "change to admire Itani and move all your stored stuff in serco space to your home station". I choose neutral on both serco and Itani so I could move my stuff to grey.
I thought the last change was ok when i couldn't have admire serco and Itani standing. I understand why it was done but a day's warning would have helped a lot of us deal with the drastic change
/2c
+many to this update. Now, when can we expect Evil Co. faction and isolation of some outlaw goodies from the trader dogs and nationalist zombies?
Good update.
+many to this update. Now, when can we expect Evil Co. faction and isolation of some outlaw goodies from the trader dogs and nationalist zombies?
I'll say this much.. the new persistent capship work is going to make it one hell of a lot easier to create a roving black-market station-ship ;).
I'll say this much.. the new persistent capship work is going to make it one hell of a lot easier to create a roving black-market station-ship ;).
Keller: No, Arf understood me correctly. My point is simply that ships should say how long they are in their stats, using plain old scalar lengths, regardless of whether the game's physics takes that number into account. If the current length values are not actually true, then that's something which should be rectified, rather than removing them.
If ships actually do have different rotational performance along different axes, then yeah, a tensor would be handier than just a moment of inertia, but either way I'd still prefer a separate plain length listing. "How big is my ship" is a common thing to wonder.
*note to self: learn tensors.
If ships actually do have different rotational performance along different axes, then yeah, a tensor would be handier than just a moment of inertia, but either way I'd still prefer a separate plain length listing. "How big is my ship" is a common thing to wonder.
*note to self: learn tensors.
Bold update! Thanks devs.
Options like "dual respect" might even become possible, again, via mechanics that are very difficult to achieve and maintain.
Yeah, I'd like to see UIT able to get dual respect with Serco/Itani, if only merely to maintain that it is conceivable to be respected as a true neutral by 2 enemies, even if capped at a mutual 201. It really wouldn't change gameplay much regarding who can attack whom and where, and who could buy Valks or proms, so it's hardly a priority. (i.e. not until it can be done in a way NOT "difficult to achieve and maintain")
Options like "dual respect" might even become possible, again, via mechanics that are very difficult to achieve and maintain.
Yeah, I'd like to see UIT able to get dual respect with Serco/Itani, if only merely to maintain that it is conceivable to be respected as a true neutral by 2 enemies, even if capped at a mutual 201. It really wouldn't change gameplay much regarding who can attack whom and where, and who could buy Valks or proms, so it's hardly a priority. (i.e. not until it can be done in a way NOT "difficult to achieve and maintain")
Rin, tensors are like matrices, except instead of numbers in each cell, you have an equation. Those equations usually allow for variable axes of rotation to be defined (usually using Euler angles - but plan old spherical coordinates work extremely well), and each cell then converges to a single number. In other words, a matrix defining the moment of inertia is just the inertial tensor defined around a specific set of 3 axes of rotation.
As stated, I fully understand where everyone stands on this. The tensor itself actually contains all the data of the object in question; it's just a lot more generic. The funny thing is that the mathematics involved in the physics engine would actually have been simpler had tensors been used for the various ships. I'm not really talking about what the player's would see. It would be something transparent behind the scenes in the engine itself.
I apologize if I hadn't explained myself properly before.
As stated, I fully understand where everyone stands on this. The tensor itself actually contains all the data of the object in question; it's just a lot more generic. The funny thing is that the mathematics involved in the physics engine would actually have been simpler had tensors been used for the various ships. I'm not really talking about what the player's would see. It would be something transparent behind the scenes in the engine itself.
I apologize if I hadn't explained myself properly before.
Agreeing with Lecter here, time to change the faction requirements for the Hound the corvult and the marauder as a first step. At least native Hate should be fine.