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Hi folks,
I am taking a good look at Vendetta as a hobby game.. I've played a few other MMO's and I am actively looking for something fun to play around with. What attracts me to Vendetta is basically they staff who built it.. I've always wanted to do something like this myself but never had the technical know-how to pull it off. This is no massive-budget game but it features some pretty in-depth interface and solid graphical candy... and has certainly earned my admiration of the game programmers/owners. I've put in a few training hours already.. read the entire back-story history.. like it so far. Well done.
I'd like to give it more time, but I have a few nagging concerns.. thought I would 'talk' to you folks in the community to see if they are well founded or not first. I've been heavily active on various game forums for many years, I am no thin-skinned newbie to online games or the kinds players who haunt the forums. Nutshell.. I know to take everything posted with a truck-load of salt.
That said, some concerns before I drop more time into Vendetta.
1. Small player community right.. not exactly and Eve sized crowd here. Thats good and bad. Its amazing how cliques pop up in small groups more often that massive multiplayer games. I don't mind small so long as its not a bunch of ego-maniacs.
2. Preying on new players. Not a big fan of that even if its 'allowed'. A game that generates 'fun' (aka revenue) from grieving(aka taxing/paying) other players is an ideal setting for online bullies to exploit. With moderation I get it.. but if thats the primary purpose.. leeching off other players.. personally I will not enjoy it nor will I participate in a game that allows victimization as a source of revenue for other players. I don't know the limits, but based on a few forum posts here and responses looks like they are pretty liberal.
Those are my two main concerns. I enjoy PvP as much as the next guy.. I enjoy tight-knit groups and small communities a well, depending on the personalities involved.
Last thing I want to do is spend a bunch of time trying to learn the various game nuances only to have someone verbally harass or grief me to no end because they own the roost.
Hopefully, my concerns are unfounded and based on misunderstanding. I am open to that, but I don't want to assume I am wrong either.
I am taking a good look at Vendetta as a hobby game.. I've played a few other MMO's and I am actively looking for something fun to play around with. What attracts me to Vendetta is basically they staff who built it.. I've always wanted to do something like this myself but never had the technical know-how to pull it off. This is no massive-budget game but it features some pretty in-depth interface and solid graphical candy... and has certainly earned my admiration of the game programmers/owners. I've put in a few training hours already.. read the entire back-story history.. like it so far. Well done.
I'd like to give it more time, but I have a few nagging concerns.. thought I would 'talk' to you folks in the community to see if they are well founded or not first. I've been heavily active on various game forums for many years, I am no thin-skinned newbie to online games or the kinds players who haunt the forums. Nutshell.. I know to take everything posted with a truck-load of salt.
That said, some concerns before I drop more time into Vendetta.
1. Small player community right.. not exactly and Eve sized crowd here. Thats good and bad. Its amazing how cliques pop up in small groups more often that massive multiplayer games. I don't mind small so long as its not a bunch of ego-maniacs.
2. Preying on new players. Not a big fan of that even if its 'allowed'. A game that generates 'fun' (aka revenue) from grieving(aka taxing/paying) other players is an ideal setting for online bullies to exploit. With moderation I get it.. but if thats the primary purpose.. leeching off other players.. personally I will not enjoy it nor will I participate in a game that allows victimization as a source of revenue for other players. I don't know the limits, but based on a few forum posts here and responses looks like they are pretty liberal.
Those are my two main concerns. I enjoy PvP as much as the next guy.. I enjoy tight-knit groups and small communities a well, depending on the personalities involved.
Last thing I want to do is spend a bunch of time trying to learn the various game nuances only to have someone verbally harass or grief me to no end because they own the roost.
Hopefully, my concerns are unfounded and based on misunderstanding. I am open to that, but I don't want to assume I am wrong either.
Shelby, I'm going to take a stab at answering your concerns because everyone likes me even while I'm destroying them ;)
1. Small player community right.. not exactly and Eve sized crowd here. Thats good and bad. Its amazing how cliques pop up in small groups more often that massive multiplayer games. I don't mind small so long as its not a bunch of ego-maniacs.
This is true, and there are cliques, they're called guilds, and every guild thinks they're the best (except PA who freely admit they're slightly below average). As Too $hort puts it, "get in where you fit in". There are different groups for different tastes and a lot of freedom to float wherever you want. There are certainly egomaniacs (I'm very humble and easygoing) and the small community makes them more noticeable but if this game ever grows those big egos will fade into the background to be replaced with entire Guilds full of big egos. Not much will change.
2. Preying on new players. Not a big fan of that even if its 'allowed'. A game that generates 'fun' (aka revenue) from grieving(aka taxing/paying) other players is an ideal setting for online bullies to exploit. With moderation I get it.. but if thats the primary purpose.. leeching off other players.. personally I will not enjoy it nor will I participate in a game that allows victimization as a source of revenue for other players. I don't know the limits, but based on a few forum posts here and responses looks like they are pretty liberal.
You have two separate categories here and it's a mistake to lump them together into one big group. Despite what the carebears would have you believe, there are VERY FEW griefers in this game, if any at all. There are pirates who tax/charge other players. Piracy is part of this game and every but the most obnoxious carebear types will tell you it makes the game more dynamic and interesting. If you want to grind levels and make money all alone you're playing the wrong game. Do noobs get killed? Yep, happens all the time. Space is a dangerous place and you're fairly warned in the tutorial and rather often thereafter. You'll also see a lot of smack talk between players (not from me obviously, I'm kind and gentle). Again, all but the over-sensitive carebears think this is anything more than ingame posturing. If it makes you angry you shouldn't be playing the game.
What you DO get from VO that you won't in Eve or WoW is the possibility of parity right out of the gate. It only takes a few days to get levels high enough to buy most of the commonly used equipment and make enough money to buy it, and then the Universe is your oyster. Money is nearly meaningless, death equally so, and practice will get most players able to hold their own in combat, and those that don't still have choice weapons and ships that can equalize your combat chances against all but the most skilled opponents. You have the same chance at dominance and success whether you've played for 5 years or 5 days.
Welcome to VO, I hope you enjoy your stay. I'm going to kill you next time I see you ingame. Just my way of saying hello :D
1. Small player community right.. not exactly and Eve sized crowd here. Thats good and bad. Its amazing how cliques pop up in small groups more often that massive multiplayer games. I don't mind small so long as its not a bunch of ego-maniacs.
This is true, and there are cliques, they're called guilds, and every guild thinks they're the best (except PA who freely admit they're slightly below average). As Too $hort puts it, "get in where you fit in". There are different groups for different tastes and a lot of freedom to float wherever you want. There are certainly egomaniacs (I'm very humble and easygoing) and the small community makes them more noticeable but if this game ever grows those big egos will fade into the background to be replaced with entire Guilds full of big egos. Not much will change.
2. Preying on new players. Not a big fan of that even if its 'allowed'. A game that generates 'fun' (aka revenue) from grieving(aka taxing/paying) other players is an ideal setting for online bullies to exploit. With moderation I get it.. but if thats the primary purpose.. leeching off other players.. personally I will not enjoy it nor will I participate in a game that allows victimization as a source of revenue for other players. I don't know the limits, but based on a few forum posts here and responses looks like they are pretty liberal.
You have two separate categories here and it's a mistake to lump them together into one big group. Despite what the carebears would have you believe, there are VERY FEW griefers in this game, if any at all. There are pirates who tax/charge other players. Piracy is part of this game and every but the most obnoxious carebear types will tell you it makes the game more dynamic and interesting. If you want to grind levels and make money all alone you're playing the wrong game. Do noobs get killed? Yep, happens all the time. Space is a dangerous place and you're fairly warned in the tutorial and rather often thereafter. You'll also see a lot of smack talk between players (not from me obviously, I'm kind and gentle). Again, all but the over-sensitive carebears think this is anything more than ingame posturing. If it makes you angry you shouldn't be playing the game.
What you DO get from VO that you won't in Eve or WoW is the possibility of parity right out of the gate. It only takes a few days to get levels high enough to buy most of the commonly used equipment and make enough money to buy it, and then the Universe is your oyster. Money is nearly meaningless, death equally so, and practice will get most players able to hold their own in combat, and those that don't still have choice weapons and ships that can equalize your combat chances against all but the most skilled opponents. You have the same chance at dominance and success whether you've played for 5 years or 5 days.
Welcome to VO, I hope you enjoy your stay. I'm going to kill you next time I see you ingame. Just my way of saying hello :D
Welcome.
1. Small player community right.. not exactly and Eve sized crowd here. Thats good and bad. Its amazing how cliques pop up in small groups more often that massive multiplayer games. I don't mind small so long as its not a bunch of ego-maniacs.
It is a smallish community. There are a few "ego-maniacs" and they are sometimes quite noticeable because, well, that's what they do. Rest assured that they are a noisy minority.
2. Preying on new players. Not a big fan of that even if its 'allowed'. A game that generates 'fun' (aka revenue) from grieving(aka taxing/paying) other players is an ideal setting for online bullies to exploit. With moderation I get it.. but if thats the primary purpose.. leeching off other players.. personally I will not enjoy it nor will I participate in a game that allows victimization as a source of revenue for other players. I don't know the limits, but based on a few forum posts here and responses looks like they are pretty liberal.
A basic tenet of Vendetta is that there is "no safe place" once you leave the training sector. If that is unacceptable to you, then Vendetta might not be for you. There are places that are safer than others. Grey space is, by definition, unsafe. Piracy does occur, but it is fairly easy to avoid it by staying within your nation's airspace for trading/mining/botting. Avoiding "smack-talk", refraining from announcing your position, and chatting only while docked are all good ways to avoid trouble. When all else fails, paying a pirate is usually cheaper than buying new gear and cargo. Actual griefers are another matter, but following my advice above will help you avoid them.
/edit Impdavid beat me to the punch and is generally correct. I would advise you to pay particular attention to his last sentence.
1. Small player community right.. not exactly and Eve sized crowd here. Thats good and bad. Its amazing how cliques pop up in small groups more often that massive multiplayer games. I don't mind small so long as its not a bunch of ego-maniacs.
It is a smallish community. There are a few "ego-maniacs" and they are sometimes quite noticeable because, well, that's what they do. Rest assured that they are a noisy minority.
2. Preying on new players. Not a big fan of that even if its 'allowed'. A game that generates 'fun' (aka revenue) from grieving(aka taxing/paying) other players is an ideal setting for online bullies to exploit. With moderation I get it.. but if thats the primary purpose.. leeching off other players.. personally I will not enjoy it nor will I participate in a game that allows victimization as a source of revenue for other players. I don't know the limits, but based on a few forum posts here and responses looks like they are pretty liberal.
A basic tenet of Vendetta is that there is "no safe place" once you leave the training sector. If that is unacceptable to you, then Vendetta might not be for you. There are places that are safer than others. Grey space is, by definition, unsafe. Piracy does occur, but it is fairly easy to avoid it by staying within your nation's airspace for trading/mining/botting. Avoiding "smack-talk", refraining from announcing your position, and chatting only while docked are all good ways to avoid trouble. When all else fails, paying a pirate is usually cheaper than buying new gear and cargo. Actual griefers are another matter, but following my advice above will help you avoid them.
/edit Impdavid beat me to the punch and is generally correct. I would advise you to pay particular attention to his last sentence.
didn't you guys say you are no thined skin newbie but are worried about being griefed?
to sum it up you are fair game to anyone if you go to grey
to sum it up you are fair game to anyone if you go to grey
If you end up enjoying the combat mechanics then you will probably find the game to be fair and accommodating. If you don't then those that do will most likely look excessively cruel and selfish to you.
But there are plenty of sane and compassionate people here, of course.
I hope you really do like PvP. :)
But there are plenty of sane and compassionate people here, of course.
I hope you really do like PvP. :)
As for the annoying ones... there is a wonderful command called /ignore.
That aside, welcome to VO, and I hope you stay.
That aside, welcome to VO, and I hope you stay.
you are fair game to anyone
Pey need not have added the bit about going to Grey. I hunt in Itani and UIT space all the time.
Pey need not have added the bit about going to Grey. I hunt in Itani and UIT space all the time.
What's a griefer?
Welcome and bleed well
: )
Welcome and bleed well
: )
I can give as good as I can take.. I am just trying to establish a mental picture of day to day gameplay to see if this game community is worth spending my time. I play MMO's cause I like to meet and team up and have fun.
Imaginary death does not weigh heavy on me.. provide it does not put a strangle-hold on advancement or becomes a haven for online bullies. A straight-up fight I can handle.. I often put my characters in harms way to test myself and get better. But I take the time to get prepared for it.. and I SEEK it out, thats a whole different story than someone just trying to get a few creds improve their ship/character.
I am still undecided.. mostly because how 'eager' some players are to 'demonstrate' the dangers of this game to newcommers.. and even if I can manage it myself.. I have my doubts there are a lot of h people like me who:
A. FIND this game.. its not that its hard to find, its just one of dozens (and growing) MMO titles that exist.
B. ENJOY getting killed as much as I do. If PvP is the ultimate focus of Vendetta... as others have mentioned that credits are worthless.
For me, it's the people you meet and befriend and spend time with in this MMO hobby. 'Testing' new players by demanding money or blowing them out of the sky will does not lead to more people signing up. There are few of us who will put up with that kind of predatory game play on a continual basis.
Anyone that is going to drop the few dozen/hundred hours at getting good at this game for whatever reason might not make it past the first few hours if everyone is so bloody gun-ho to extort 'pretend' money from them or blow the out of the sky just for sniffing outside the 'safe zone' (if that truely exists). If credits are worthless... why do players do this again? Oh.. thats right.. to maintain the 'illusion of danger'.
Look.. newbies really don't need that illusion.. we don't give a flying you-know-what about the illusion of danger.. we are just trying to make some friends and figure out how to get somewhere in this game without bouncing off an asteriod.
Also, the /100 chat channel... and what I've read in it in the short few hours I played.. is probably driving more players away from this game based than people realize. Does everyone here expect EVERY new player to be thick skinned? I've been around long enough to ingnore it.. or more accurately.. tolerate it. Every player here is an ambassador to this game.. you either make it more attractive or make it less attractive depending on your actions/discussions.
Here is the nutshell.. new players need to be able to get out of the 'training' area and not get blown to bits just for the 'priviledge' of playing this game. Some people get off on this.. most don't.
The first (an vital) impression this behaviour can give a prospective new player is that its more fun to blow people up than to team up and do things together as a unit.
Is it up to the newbies to look beyond the two most obvious game communication systems to understand that this game might be more than just a griefer system? Perhaps... but boy does that trim a lot of 'revenue' away from this game.
Vendetta has a lot of good things working for it.. I wonder if that includes its player community or not? It should... and perhaps it does, but out-of-the-wrapper the impression is not very positive, and I think most player know this.
In MMO's.. the moral difference usually belongs to the community. Moral being.. just because you can do it does not mean its a good thing for the big picture to allow it to happen. The owners of this game put a whole lot of effort to make it fun to play.. the instruction/training text is solid.. one of the better ones for a game of this budget. I'd hate to see their efforts undermined because of the established players attitude towards those of us who dare to try it out.
Imaginary death does not weigh heavy on me.. provide it does not put a strangle-hold on advancement or becomes a haven for online bullies. A straight-up fight I can handle.. I often put my characters in harms way to test myself and get better. But I take the time to get prepared for it.. and I SEEK it out, thats a whole different story than someone just trying to get a few creds improve their ship/character.
I am still undecided.. mostly because how 'eager' some players are to 'demonstrate' the dangers of this game to newcommers.. and even if I can manage it myself.. I have my doubts there are a lot of h people like me who:
A. FIND this game.. its not that its hard to find, its just one of dozens (and growing) MMO titles that exist.
B. ENJOY getting killed as much as I do. If PvP is the ultimate focus of Vendetta... as others have mentioned that credits are worthless.
For me, it's the people you meet and befriend and spend time with in this MMO hobby. 'Testing' new players by demanding money or blowing them out of the sky will does not lead to more people signing up. There are few of us who will put up with that kind of predatory game play on a continual basis.
Anyone that is going to drop the few dozen/hundred hours at getting good at this game for whatever reason might not make it past the first few hours if everyone is so bloody gun-ho to extort 'pretend' money from them or blow the out of the sky just for sniffing outside the 'safe zone' (if that truely exists). If credits are worthless... why do players do this again? Oh.. thats right.. to maintain the 'illusion of danger'.
Look.. newbies really don't need that illusion.. we don't give a flying you-know-what about the illusion of danger.. we are just trying to make some friends and figure out how to get somewhere in this game without bouncing off an asteriod.
Also, the /100 chat channel... and what I've read in it in the short few hours I played.. is probably driving more players away from this game based than people realize. Does everyone here expect EVERY new player to be thick skinned? I've been around long enough to ingnore it.. or more accurately.. tolerate it. Every player here is an ambassador to this game.. you either make it more attractive or make it less attractive depending on your actions/discussions.
Here is the nutshell.. new players need to be able to get out of the 'training' area and not get blown to bits just for the 'priviledge' of playing this game. Some people get off on this.. most don't.
The first (an vital) impression this behaviour can give a prospective new player is that its more fun to blow people up than to team up and do things together as a unit.
Is it up to the newbies to look beyond the two most obvious game communication systems to understand that this game might be more than just a griefer system? Perhaps... but boy does that trim a lot of 'revenue' away from this game.
Vendetta has a lot of good things working for it.. I wonder if that includes its player community or not? It should... and perhaps it does, but out-of-the-wrapper the impression is not very positive, and I think most player know this.
In MMO's.. the moral difference usually belongs to the community. Moral being.. just because you can do it does not mean its a good thing for the big picture to allow it to happen. The owners of this game put a whole lot of effort to make it fun to play.. the instruction/training text is solid.. one of the better ones for a game of this budget. I'd hate to see their efforts undermined because of the established players attitude towards those of us who dare to try it out.
insted of writing all this stuff why don't you just get in game and fly around and figure out how it is for yourself? If being pirated is a problem for you then maybe this is not the game you should be playing.
1. For the Devs to get some feedback.
2. For me to get to know you guys/gals better.
3. For you to get to know me a bit better.
4. Because I don't have hundreds of hours to waste to test everything out on my own. Thats what a good community does, it helps newbies get up to speed faster so they get addicted to the game and want to hang out longer.
2. For me to get to know you guys/gals better.
3. For you to get to know me a bit better.
4. Because I don't have hundreds of hours to waste to test everything out on my own. Thats what a good community does, it helps newbies get up to speed faster so they get addicted to the game and want to hang out longer.
Shelby.. you've already met the more annoying of us here on this thread. peytros, Impavid, and Lecter are players I tend to keep on /ignore in-game. Edit: those guys sometimes play under different names in-game. Just a warning :).
As for A straight-up fight I can handle.. I often put my characters in harms way to test myself and get better... good! Only real way to learn is to get your butt handed to you over and over again. That maxim can be applied to most everything.
As for A straight-up fight I can handle.. I often put my characters in harms way to test myself and get better... good! Only real way to learn is to get your butt handed to you over and over again. That maxim can be applied to most everything.
Shelby-
Your premise is flawed. We are not ambassadors for VO, we are PAYING PLAYERS. It is not our responsibility to recruit or handhold new players. That responsibility belongs to the developers and their staff. This game was designed with freedom of activity in mind. If that means I want to blow you up then that's what I get to do.
PS: Meet Atice, one of the aforementioned carebears who, as usual, isn't adding anything of value to the conversation but is usually the first to personally attack another player rather than engage in the discussion. If you want a fight you won't get it from him, all he does is run away :D
Your premise is flawed. We are not ambassadors for VO, we are PAYING PLAYERS. It is not our responsibility to recruit or handhold new players. That responsibility belongs to the developers and their staff. This game was designed with freedom of activity in mind. If that means I want to blow you up then that's what I get to do.
PS: Meet Atice, one of the aforementioned carebears who, as usual, isn't adding anything of value to the conversation but is usually the first to personally attack another player rather than engage in the discussion. If you want a fight you won't get it from him, all he does is run away :D
What about word griefing?
Building very long sentences with no other purpose than boring others to death about very uninteresting topics for example?
Concerned but not interested : ]
Building very long sentences with no other purpose than boring others to death about very uninteresting topics for example?
Concerned but not interested : ]
Seems to me you've been given a lot of good feedback in this thread, including some from players deemed "annoying" by others. In order for feedback from you to have much validity, you should go out and use the information you have been given here. If one 8-hour trial is not sufficient, make another character and have another 8 hour go.
This is a MMO.. player communities make or break MMO's in general. Helping each other out is not just the Devs responsibility, especially when the game is as small as Vendetta.
You can afford a few dozen ass hats in WoW or Eve.. but there are what.. 39 active players right now. You'd think those 39 would want to have some new blood to play with now and again.
Paying customer is not a license to harass other players... and as much as people try to spin-doctor it, beating up on unprepared new players is a form of harassment, even if its 'allowed' by the game mechanics.
You can afford a few dozen ass hats in WoW or Eve.. but there are what.. 39 active players right now. You'd think those 39 would want to have some new blood to play with now and again.
Paying customer is not a license to harass other players... and as much as people try to spin-doctor it, beating up on unprepared new players is a form of harassment, even if its 'allowed' by the game mechanics.
I'm losing patience now shelby. Have you played enough to make any judgements? You're espousing your personal philosophy about how VO should be with no experience of how it is. Have you suffered harassment in VO? Have you been beat up on (besides the deserved beating you're about to get in this thread)? I've killed a couple of n00bs this week and they all laughed at me for asking for so much money.
You need to find out what this game is like before you make any more judgements on the community.
You need to find out what this game is like before you make any more judgements on the community.
Impavid... oy. Just calling it how I see it, in a manner which is more likely to keep the newbie than you are. And sure, I'm a "carebear"... if by that you mean I want new players to stay and spend much of my time protecting them from griefers...
Shelby, Whitler's got it nailed. At this point, check out the game, keeping in mind that the more annoying of us are "louder" than others, and enjoy yourself! For a decent guide to avoiding pirates, check out http://viperguild.com/wiki/index.php5?title=Main_Page
Shelby, Whitler's got it nailed. At this point, check out the game, keeping in mind that the more annoying of us are "louder" than others, and enjoy yourself! For a decent guide to avoiding pirates, check out http://viperguild.com/wiki/index.php5?title=Main_Page
You know...I thought I smelled troll before, but now I'm all but certain. I suggest that everyone stand down.
Testing' new players by demanding money or blowing them out of the sky
We're not testing anything or anyone. We treat all potential targets alike. If you only want to engage in PvP under conditions of your choosing, VO is not for you. Aside from the training sectors in which new players start, every single place in VO is open for non-consensual PvP, with consequences for killing another player in any given sector varying from none to very unpleasant and time-consuming to fix.
Many of us hunt traders who are trying to do anything BUT PvP, and if not paid a reasonable passage fee, we will kill you. That's just the way it works. If you don't feel that's teamwork, or community, or whatever touchy-feely bullshit you prefer, oriented enough... either run & hide, or go to Hello-Kitty Island Adventure.
We're not testing anything or anyone. We treat all potential targets alike. If you only want to engage in PvP under conditions of your choosing, VO is not for you. Aside from the training sectors in which new players start, every single place in VO is open for non-consensual PvP, with consequences for killing another player in any given sector varying from none to very unpleasant and time-consuming to fix.
Many of us hunt traders who are trying to do anything BUT PvP, and if not paid a reasonable passage fee, we will kill you. That's just the way it works. If you don't feel that's teamwork, or community, or whatever touchy-feely bullshit you prefer, oriented enough... either run & hide, or go to Hello-Kitty Island Adventure.