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There was a mistake made in the release of the Shield Turret on Friday. The release ran very late (I didn't get home until almost 5am, Ray by 6am) and also coincided with our recurring credit-card billing system going down, which wasn't resolved until late on Saturday.
As a result, in my foggy and distracted state, I pushed out economy numbers on the Shield Turret that should not have been.
We appreciate everyone who attempted to bring the highly exploitable issue to our attention via the Web Bug submitter. However, web-bugs do not auto-email the developers, and are checked every week or two. We also were not aware of the bugs thread until later today, when Tosh opened a Customer Support ticket.
In any event, we have adjusted the sell prices and dropoff to something more sane, and we will be removing the vast bulk of profits made from this. We will attempt, for the sake of new players, to allow people to keep some small percentage that would represent what could "normally" have been made trading these items, so that the time spent is not entirely wasted. However, the vast majority of the profits will be going away (as well as anywhere else said profits might have been used or transferred; it would be best to just keep it all in credits in your account). We have not yet crunched the numbers, but I would expect something like 99% of the profits to be removed. FYI.
As a result, in my foggy and distracted state, I pushed out economy numbers on the Shield Turret that should not have been.
We appreciate everyone who attempted to bring the highly exploitable issue to our attention via the Web Bug submitter. However, web-bugs do not auto-email the developers, and are checked every week or two. We also were not aware of the bugs thread until later today, when Tosh opened a Customer Support ticket.
In any event, we have adjusted the sell prices and dropoff to something more sane, and we will be removing the vast bulk of profits made from this. We will attempt, for the sake of new players, to allow people to keep some small percentage that would represent what could "normally" have been made trading these items, so that the time spent is not entirely wasted. However, the vast majority of the profits will be going away (as well as anywhere else said profits might have been used or transferred; it would be best to just keep it all in credits in your account). We have not yet crunched the numbers, but I would expect something like 99% of the profits to be removed. FYI.
as well as anywhere else said profits might have been used or transferred
What if someone took the profits, bought a metric shit ton of expensive items, and then dumped them out in space for someone else to collect in an XC and then store? You really have a log of cargo collections? ;)
What if someone took the profits, bought a metric shit ton of expensive items, and then dumped them out in space for someone else to collect in an XC and then store? You really have a log of cargo collections? ;)
Only you would think of that Lecter.
Inc: Other than the trade problem with the turrets being corrected, can we be expecting any changes to price of the turret etc?
Inc: Other than the trade problem with the turrets being corrected, can we be expecting any changes to price of the turret etc?
lecter: yes, we can. It's a big pain in the ass. All of this is a big pain in the ass. But we log everything. People have tried to "launder" stuff before; it's mostly a great way to irritate the developer staff and bring attention to yourself.
pyroman: that's more suggestion-oriented stuff. I welcome feedback on the general pricing of the turrets.. somewhere else. This is just about fixing the bug and exploit repercussions.
pyroman: that's more suggestion-oriented stuff. I welcome feedback on the general pricing of the turrets.. somewhere else. This is just about fixing the bug and exploit repercussions.
i think some other weapons and equipment have fixed sell prices too. If that was fixed i think it would benefit trade as well. I'm not sure which or where they would be as I only really trade ores. Ask around though, im sure someone can point them out.
But we log everything.
Perfect--that answers the question of whether or not y'all can set up piracy badges tied to cargoes recovered from someone's freshly vaporized cargo hold.
On a separate note, while this was clearly a bug, I was thinking that it would make a fine Grey route. ~5k per cu profit from UIT capitals to Odia for these items would be a good incentive for traders. I don't see the fixed sell price as a problem, either.
Perfect--that answers the question of whether or not y'all can set up piracy badges tied to cargoes recovered from someone's freshly vaporized cargo hold.
On a separate note, while this was clearly a bug, I was thinking that it would make a fine Grey route. ~5k per cu profit from UIT capitals to Odia for these items would be a good incentive for traders. I don't see the fixed sell price as a problem, either.
It probably wouldn't make a bad route at all. But I would include some dropoff, even if the bounceback was quite fast. Big-profit fixed-sell routes are just scary, even if they're distant.. I don't need to add more stuff I have to fix when we release large-cargo capships or whatever.
Also, there's a big difference between "logging" and "storing in the database". We have many large compressed archives of logs of everything that happens in the game, going back quite a long time. This isn't available in real-time, and requires a lot of annoying developer work to access and use.. Ray is probably written a bunch of perl scripts customized to the current problem. So, while piracy-badge data may be in there, it isn't useful to the game in any way.
But that doesn't negate the future possibility of tracking this sort of data in the database, in a more badge-useful manner. We've talked about tracking cargo in more interesting ways.
Also, there's a big difference between "logging" and "storing in the database". We have many large compressed archives of logs of everything that happens in the game, going back quite a long time. This isn't available in real-time, and requires a lot of annoying developer work to access and use.. Ray is probably written a bunch of perl scripts customized to the current problem. So, while piracy-badge data may be in there, it isn't useful to the game in any way.
But that doesn't negate the future possibility of tracking this sort of data in the database, in a more badge-useful manner. We've talked about tracking cargo in more interesting ways.
UH Inc would you please check on your re-adjustments.... I shouldnt be taking a major loss hauling them 2 systems over to ukari or anywhere in grey.....
5k per cu to Odia? LOL....like I am gonna risk 8 million for a paltry sum like that.....
5k per cu to Odia? LOL....like I am gonna risk 8 million for a paltry sum like that.....
so like i killed Mr.Chaos and sold his 120 shield turrets in odia m 14 are you taking my monies?
Erm, it's better than the current long haul high profit hauls.
These are the numbers for those that don't know:
20,000c 1cu item X 200cus = 4,000,000c investment
5,000c profit per cu X 200cus = 1,000,000c profit
The route is from Dau to Odia, 4 systems jumps, making it much shorter than Odia to Itan, 8 system jumps, and they yield about the same except it's an XC load from Dau to Odia while a Behemoth load from Odia to Itan.
These are the numbers for those that don't know:
20,000c 1cu item X 200cus = 4,000,000c investment
5,000c profit per cu X 200cus = 1,000,000c profit
The route is from Dau to Odia, 4 systems jumps, making it much shorter than Odia to Itan, 8 system jumps, and they yield about the same except it's an XC load from Dau to Odia while a Behemoth load from Odia to Itan.
Easy come, easy go PaKettle.
Incarnate has enough problems fixing this mess.
High profit in odia would be fantastic solution for creating a very dangerous route and bringing traders back to grey, I agree.
I do question Incarnates plans and priorities more and more often then others but in this matter whatever he decides will be fine.
Incarnate has enough problems fixing this mess.
High profit in odia would be fantastic solution for creating a very dangerous route and bringing traders back to grey, I agree.
I do question Incarnates plans and priorities more and more often then others but in this matter whatever he decides will be fine.
PaKettle: You won't have to take a loss, but you will have to store the items until the station demand increases. Most demands are zero right now.
Storage I can do.....
Surb yer right I meant 4 million. 1 million in profit is still not much when you consider the time and effort....It is a poor profit for a trader....
Surb yer right I meant 4 million. 1 million in profit is still not much when you consider the time and effort....It is a poor profit for a trader....
Soon, you'll be wishing you could make a million credits in 24 hours of grinding without visiting Grey.
Trading w/o risk must die. Otherwise, no realistic reward will tempt asshats like PaK into doing what traders are supposed to do.
Trading w/o risk must die. Otherwise, no realistic reward will tempt asshats like PaK into doing what traders are supposed to do.
Ok, this thread is about a specific debacle, not general trading contentions. Let's keep it on subject. If people want to suggest a new route for Shield Turrets, with associated numbers, feel free to post/debate that on Suggestions.
I think taking back 99% of the profit is a bit extreme. Players spent time on a route that they thought was going to yield a good profit. Regardless of what the route should have yielded, players spent time on it because they thought it was good. It wasn't an obvious bug. People could have traded thinking the money was legit, especially since the devs weren't responding to the bug reports at first. If everyone would have known that 99% of their profit would be taken away, they wouldn't have spent their time on the route. This should be taken into account.
Taking back 99% is wrong. 80% is reasonable and would still minimize the negative effects this mistake will have on the long-term economy, while still leaving a good profit like the players expected when they invested their time.
Taking back 99% is wrong. 80% is reasonable and would still minimize the negative effects this mistake will have on the long-term economy, while still leaving a good profit like the players expected when they invested their time.
yes and it had the effect of getting the rats to come up to dau and quit being such lazy bums.....
oh shut up strat i counted 8 xcs in dau all running the same route with NO decrease in price? obvious fucking bug is obvious.
How many cu of space does 1 shield gun take?
I think people should be happy they are getting to keep some and not facing consequences. Every time I logged on in the past few days the main topic of discussion on 100 was the broken Dau route, and everyone who was paying attention at all to the channel would have quickly gotten the picture that the devs made some mistake and something was a lot more profitable than intended. And also that the devs would almost certainly not be letting people keep what they made, because it was a bug that was being exploited. I can see maybe a few newbs who saw people flying around in lots of moths and got caught up in it not really knowing what was going on, but the vast majority of the people participating knew what the deal was, I would wager. Frankly, if you're going to bet your time on something that was clearly so far removed from the status quo that it had to be a bug, you should acknowledge that that bet might not pay off at all.
And for god's sake, we had a hard enough time getting the pirates OUT of Dau. The turrets, which are a solution but definitely not the best one (and not on topic at all in this thread) were put in place to keep them out of Dau after they were basically owning the place killing newbs and in general causing a ruckus. We don't need or want bugged trade to pull the pirates up into UIT space, we want good grey trade to pull the traders down into grey space, which Inc has been hard at work making for us. The pirates should stay in grey for the most part, making grey dangerous, making grey fun.
In fact, if anyone should get to keep any money they made off of selling the turrets, it should be any pirates who brought down moths and sold the resulting cargo. Course, that would mean even more work for the devs, and I don't think it's worth it, but at least they were doing honest work.
And for god's sake, we had a hard enough time getting the pirates OUT of Dau. The turrets, which are a solution but definitely not the best one (and not on topic at all in this thread) were put in place to keep them out of Dau after they were basically owning the place killing newbs and in general causing a ruckus. We don't need or want bugged trade to pull the pirates up into UIT space, we want good grey trade to pull the traders down into grey space, which Inc has been hard at work making for us. The pirates should stay in grey for the most part, making grey dangerous, making grey fun.
In fact, if anyone should get to keep any money they made off of selling the turrets, it should be any pirates who brought down moths and sold the resulting cargo. Course, that would mean even more work for the devs, and I don't think it's worth it, but at least they were doing honest work.