I don't see why CtC cannot be a group mission that gives the cargo to the group's members, who can decide among themselves on how to distribute the widgets. This would also cause more player involvement.

And/Or make a requirement that the group has to have at least 1 designated cargo ship (centaur or moth), at all times until delivery.

"Someone has to say it so here goes.

A "mute point" would be a point you keep to yourself. A "moot point", however, is something debatable but inconsequential, which is what you were trying to say. Neither one really applies to your argument. The confusion between "mute point" and "moot point" seems to happen a lot.

Someone has to say it so...
There's really no such thing as "mute point" unless you are talking about either a basketball player that can't talk, a lead soldier on patrol that can't talk or when commercials come on the TV and it's time to hit that button on the remote. Don't get me wrong, a bazillion people use it but it is because moot is misunderstood by many. (BTW, there's no such thing as bazillion either, unless we are considering slang)

They aren't "magic" shields. NPCs operate in different ways then players. They can attack in the nfz and not be damaged for instance. This would just be a different way NPCs are different. I don't think having your nation bots keep FF on is so wrong. Its how it works now. I'm just saying lets not make the change for nation NPCs, only make the change for players. If this gets rolled out to the whole universe could you imagine the damage you could do by accident to a nation NPC. If it works like it does now you could lose 900 faction points A few stray flares and you could be KOS with your own nation.

Dr. Lecter: I know what you did. And I would rather have players work together then kill the tport yourself and deliver the cargo.

Professor Chaos: The faction hit now is 10 points. I think thats good enough. No need to make it more. And i don't like the idea of making the person not allowed to deliver the cargo. The kill is recorded but no need to make the person temp KOS.

Edit:
Btw the CtC transports already behave differently from any other NPC. Killing them anywhere will get you a faction decrease. But no other bot does this. If I kill a UIT ship in Grey space i will never get a faction hit.

NPCs operate in different ways then players.

Something Guild is actively trying to change. Because it's a "magic shield" and those are bad.

And aside from wringing your hands and whining about what you want, you haven't explained how CtC will ever be free of the whole "have someone who can pop your own voy" issue. Because you can't and it won't.

So get over it.

They are magic shields, and just because there's other magic stuff at work doesn't mean it's good.
Also magical ff protection is by far more jarring then for example NFZ not working right.
As for accidentally hitting nation NPC, you can hit them accidentally once maybe twice, but beyond that?

Dr. Lecter: i realize that. I would rather people have to work together to take out a transport. It was just a suggestion that CtC bots stay the same and don't change.

Maq: you don't see any situation where accidently killing a nation bot in nation space could result in major faction loss. Since some bots would die with one flare hit I can see it happening.

How was the last few nation wars? Id there a lot of friendly fire happening?

How was the last few nation wars? Id there a lot of friendly fire happening?

Yes, and there should be. Learn to aim, aim at your target, and don't shoot your goddamn friendlies. People in this game have grown up being entirely lax about fire discipline--because of FF magic shields.

Get. Rid. Of. Them. All.

And make sure you don't fuck up and shoot off your flares in nation space if you don't want faction loss. Very simple.

Entering Geira Rutilius O-4
<Dr. Lecter> yarr
Mecha Touriaus destroyed Dr. Lecter
<Mecha Touriaus> oh crap! That was an accident! I am SO sorry lecter! (kind of)
A-Dawg destroyed Mecha Touriaus
<A-Dawg> oops that was aimed at lecter.
<Mecha Touriaus> :(

anyway, i'm weird.

but in all seriousness, yeah i agree turn it off everywhere and people will be more cautious. In the nw I ran through my friendly's fire out of habit and realized after (and i survived somehow) that there is no "safe mode" in grey anymore :P I remembered to watch my own fire but then I was using rails. But this will also teach people to not be all "*zerg rushed*, zomgosh my own team flared me watch what ur doing newbs".

Speak for yourself Lecter, I grew up in VO having FF on, and most other games have the option. Depends on how far your horizon reaches.

That said, I'm in favor of doing away with protection from FF (and magic shields in general).

I'm trying to recall a time, Mecha, when you (and/or me and A-Dawg) had sufficiently low Serco standing to be popping (and getting popped by) Serco in GR O-4.

"I would suggest: Nation NPCs should always have FF on. (Especially CtC ones) No one should ever be able to destroy their own transport."

When I read this what I get out of it is that players shouldn't be able to damage their own transport, therefore FF applies to players. For the most part, FF will apply to NPCs in that most NPCs will simply be better able to tell apart friend from foe, since they're fully immersed in the game. The difference would be if different AI personalities are introduced that aren't so scrupulous.

Also, then ≠ than.

toshiro, I like your group mission idea, except that I'd rather see the whole delivery mission structure change to be more natural and organic, and CtC would be replaced by real piracy. I think each station should have a place where anyone can look up which friendly stations are in need of a certain item, how short they are of that item, and how much they will pay per unit. At that screen you can commit, just as if you were accepting a mission, to deliver a set amount of that item at a certain time, and if you make it in that time the station is committed to paying you the listed price. If you're late you get less. A smart pirate would be able to spot the same lucrative routes as a trader, set up an ambush, take the cargo and hoard it until the price goes up, and sell it themselves without having had to buy it. Of course, this would only work with a real economy, with at least semi-finite resources. If you're worried about an ambush you hire NPCs or players to escort you, and this would replace the current escort missions.

Jestatis, yes it can happen, but, essentially, so what?
A lot of things can happen.

Now, if this is a real concern then better way to deal with it would be to decrease faction hit, not have magic shield.

oh lecter, it wasn't factual.

It was just me imagining GR o4 with no magix shieldz

Gods, thank you, Relayer. Moot/Mute irks the f**king CRAP outta me, I have no idea why. Not even they're/their/there or you're/your gets me as bad as moot point/mute point.

Oh, and yay update.

Yes, that flustrates me as well.

That was almost 30 posts ago, isn't it a müt point by now?

Considering I was the first to address the inane issue you brought up, I find it quite interesting how you could possibly lack the ability to count to two. Did you count mine, then happen upon Incarnate's, and just lose track of where you were?

Also, for what reason do you expect that this thread should revolve around you? There's a number of other issues that have been brought up since you posted that actually merit discussion.

Edit: You're lucky I didn't quote you Blacknet.

We (myself included) need to get back on topic here.

Agreed. And the topic at hand is, should there be a /vote moot option in VO?

I think I have sucessfully assisted in derailing another thread.

Mission Accomplished.