sigh, blaster, i AM a heavy pilot and the prom is unflyable compared to the rag.. and the rag is a sitting duck for pretty much anything unless you are using ammo dependant weapons.. and even then you arent going to last long. Everyone(including you arolte) was yelling about rocket ramming on the prom as well.. no one then seemed to recgonize that the flares were what allowed for the ramming technique to be used, not the ships in question.

I do notice however, that everyone was quite willing to complain about the blue and red special ships, but not the gold(aside from a few of us whos voices were drowned out)

red is nearly always on the short end of just about everything.

wanna stop the whining? go back to 3.0.x, thatll solve all the problems with ship balances, however then we will get back into the lemming complaints again.

why don't you stop whining about balanced ships and just test the engine.

and for the record, since they were nerfed, i have only seen one prom, and that was mine which incarnate blew up right as i left s7 dock in 3.2.8.. havent seen one since, not even flown by those reds that still play.


/me goes back to his xenocide world to wait out a community rebirth

I use the prom! It's a good ship.

Paedric: I agree with you 100%, but since this is a *test* game the devs want all players to have access to all different kinds of ships. In the real MMORPG the price gradient is going to be *much* steeper.

I agree with you Cmdr. Freeman, a fuse is the key to solve rocket ramming, station nuking etc. but make it a time-delay fuse, not a proximity fuse.

Avalons would arm after ~8 seconds
Sunflares, Jackhammers, Screamers would arm after ~1.5 seconds

With a proximity fuse you could get around it by boosting your missiles up to top speed and then braking.

nope the prom is useless, but if they put in 3 large and no small and kept its very sluggish agility, then it would be the perfect heavy streak fighter.

Now on topic of the centaur. Why is everybody trying to change it. Did we have high agility traders with lots a cargo place in 3.1?? No we didnt , we had heavy pretty sluggish but heavilly armed. So if you do change the maud, make it resemble more to the centaur then vice versa.

And yes, I dont use the centaur either, it is a flying coffin. Especially against rocketrammers.

And please stop the thing about you have to not let them get near you, as if you can avoid a rocketrammer if he clearly just wants to come near you and shoot all his rockets.

ow and please the problem arent really the ships, it are the weapons mounted on them that are pretty unbalanced.

a tripple gauss on a valk; quad gauss on a hornie, tripple gauss on a maud. the same with sunflares. a valk is a perfect pirateweapon : ditch the rockets, make it solely energy or maybe only 1 rocket rest energy. maud : 1 rocket 2 energys, but I would prefer 1 energy, 1 mine and 1 rocket. hornet : 2 energy , 2 rockets.

The same would be for all the advanced autoaiming weapons, limit 1 to every ship. Because in 3.1 every ship was balanced against each other, a light ship could win against a heavy ship just as easilly as it was vica versa. It only depended from the pilot. Same skill of pilotes, same chances. And please if you complain that this is solely because the person in question has found out that you should strafe left and roll left and alternate, ans that really no skill is involved. then just make it a point and click game, then there is really no skill involved and just by chance. But naturelly the game would lose all its attractiveness, so let us please not go that way;)

I know, im making it a little more difficult for the pirate, but isnt it much more fun for a pirate to work for their cargo then just come blasting in with 3 sunnies and shoot the unaware trader. And in stead have a chasing that lasts from sec 14 - sec 18, if you then were succesfull at pampering me down, then I would say good job, nicely done. You really are a great player. But in my slightly anti-pirate biased opinion :D, it is far to easy to pirate people, far to easy.

At least work for the cargo that you will receive, we have to work "do the boring tradingroutes" for it to. ;)

And as a little sidenote, starfreeze: station mining and station nuking is an exploit. Why in hell would the devs consider putting in patroll zones and all. Besides the exploit isnt the station nuking , it is the constant docking and redocking to not be able to sustain damage from the warhead. in my opinion, if you shoot a nuke and the blast hits the shooter : you are death :D. And you shouldnt be unharmed because of your skill to press enter between shooting nukes :D

Oh and please make having issues being killed by the last person that that person attacked. this would really tone down the lemmings, because people want to avoid the sign that they were killed by a certain player :D

PS: sorry for a lot of spellingmistakes, I gladly accept corrections.

PPS: sorry for this rant, I just had to get it of off my system.

cheers

and have a nice game

EDIT: dang it is a long post

renegade, exploits have to be used against a bug.

Phaserlight, chances are that such a trick is harder than you think. I've tried stuff similar to it...what I did was really hard to pull off (and I didn't usually do it).

----------------
"Don't nerf the Marauder because you're getting rocket rammed.
If there are any unbalanced ships in this game it's the frickin' Valkyrie, so shush up for a second."
----------------

don't nerf the valkyrie because you're getting rocket rammed. i keep saying this and i'll say it again: learn to adapt. there are a lot of balance issues right now. so don't pin all the blame on one single ship or group of people.

----------------
"You guys need to realize that it's a special ship. It's not supposed behave like an Atlas or Centaur, duh!"
----------------

you need to realize that the valkyrie is a special ship. it's not supposed to be like a hornet or warthog, duh! the only special ship that really needs to be changed is the prometheus. the prometheus needs to be beefed up.

The problem with the Valkyrie is that you have to be really good to kill one in any of the non-special ships. It's too maneuverable to shoot when it's up close, and it's too fast to catch when it's not. I don't think the answer would be nerfing the valk, but making it so that other, non-special ships, though not as good, can still fight it would be a step in the right direction.

As for the Marauder, I agree that it is waay too good for trading. It has 16 cargo ports, while the most other ships have is 12. I think we should just give the other trade ships more cargo and call that even. There are valk and prom alternative (vult and rag, etc.) But there is no Maud alternative. So give the other trade ships more cargo and the L-ports will make up for their lack of agility. The Marauder, however, is not directly a problem though. Just because it can actually fight back against a pirate doesn't mean it should be nerfed. I think it is just fine with it's 3 small ports and medium agility. And Arlote, you say it needs to be redesigned because it currently has 6 friggin engines and only medium agility. But think about it. It has 16 cargo spaces, that's a lot of mass. It would take a lot of engines to propel that with medium agility.

L ports are not a replacement for agility in trade ships. The rag is only good as a support ship. It will lose a 1 vs 1. We can't go around giving trade ships more weapons than rags, so they will loose 1v1 fights with their current agility. Player pirating is way to easy with trade ships other than the marauder.

Sorry, goofed again. Yes, I meant 3.2.6. The agility reduction of the Marauder is undocumented. It DID happen. I used the Marauder almost exclusively back when the Hornet was crap, so I felt almost right away that its agility was reduced. The thing was a lot more agile before than it is now. It used to turn and stop a lot faster than before. Now the controls seem to respond more slowly for the Marauder.

"wanna stop the whining? go back to 3.0.x, thatll solve all the problems with ship balances, however then we will get back into the lemming complaints again."

In response to Dragos, this is not true at all. It is a lot worse now than it used to be. Back in 3.0.x you only had ONE rocket port, making them not only easier to dodge but also less powerful. The "finishing move" which I think a lot of people whined about back then was when you weakened your enemy with energy weapons and THEN ran 'em down with rockets. This tactic, however, required you to use energy weapons to successfully pull off, so it is NOT the same as rocket ramming. In addition to that, back when boost tapping still existed it was VERY easy to run away from an enemy, if dodging single rockets coming at you wasn't your thing (yawn!).

Aah. I now see arolte's point. If we put back in boost-tapping and encourage use of multiple-rocket configs, we'll be all set.

Give the marauder 1 S slot, give it 20k in health, reduce the agility, 4 more cargo spaces.
Give the prometheus 2 S slots, 2 L slots, 18k in health.
Decrease the valkyrie's agility down to the current vulture's
Increase the agility of the vulture
---following suggestions require fixed freaking out agility bug---
Increase the agility of the Centurion, make it slightly smaller.
Increase the agility of the vulture
Give the Centaur-whatever 2 S slots, 1 L slot, 2 more cargo spaces.

And arolte, stop complaining how the marauder has 6 engines so it must be very agile, those six engines are so it can move itself, weapons on board, and 16 rather big pieces of cargo.

Encourage multiple rocket configs? Uhhh... you could only carry one rocket. Rogue, you're not the sharpest knife in the drawer today.

I think the simplest solution for rocket ramming is have a maximum of 16 rockets on board a ship, so if you want to fire 4 per round, fine but you can only fire 4 rounds, then you have to reload.

Edit: this is straying off topic people!

hey what happens to the hornet? can it become a bit smaller and lil bit more snappy?

I wish, Blaster. Ohhhh how I wish.

=)~

What are we all arguing about, just to clarify? because we seem a littlebit off topic here.

Our problem is that some people (myself included) think the maud is too much of a fighter to be considered as a trade ship, yet it still has lots of cargo space.

=\

My post about the centuar etc applys to this i think. Eldrad, i want to keep the smuggler ships just as badly as you do, it adds variety to the game. But the problem is, they are just too good in a fighter.

Either give them lots of armour, or lots of guns. They have both atm.

In my opinion, trade ships should have one gun port, tons of armour, and be about as mernuverable as a dead fish. Yes, this makes them death traps against Pirates, but it means that AI cant get them. Which works.

Old day seven seas pirates? What would a merchant ship try to do when it saw them?

Out run them. They would seek shelther from the pirates. They would _NOT_ turn round and fire at the pirates. That would result in them being highly buggered.

Lots of armour means that it takes ages to kill the smuggler ships, given them a longer amount of time to get away.

Plus, what i find hilarious is the fact that no fighter at all can have the advanced gattling cannons, but a cargo ship...can?

/me lols

Nuff said.

I think another part of the problem here is how easy it is to get to 18, and that everyone has 18 set as home, everyone but the blues who have Valks up the yinyang.

Rabid Panda: it's not *that* easy to get to 18 - otherwise people wouldn't set home in s18. I've seen a lot of people trying to get to s18 and fail.

Regards,
Mark (Commander Jameson)

And the best part is blue doesn't use the valk. I haven't seen a blue valk in weeks. :)