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You think combat is too slow, Go to b-8 and see how long it takes an experienced player to turn you into space dust. :P
Combat is slow if ships are more than 150m out but if there anywhere >75 it extremely fast and twitchy.
Combat is slow if ships are more than 150m out but if there anywhere >75 it extremely fast and twitchy.
: <- toggles mouse look, I tend to prefer it off.
It does not toggle "Auto Aim".
Spidey, what is B-8, and will we be using equal ships?
Puciek, I will be seeking a fight after 7pm EST when I'm back home.
It does not toggle "Auto Aim".
Spidey, what is B-8, and will we be using equal ships?
Puciek, I will be seeking a fight after 7pm EST when I'm back home.
Every ship in VO got it's own + and -, and since you are a newbie it doesnt matter what they got, you are going to loose.
There was a hotkey to toggle it, check settings, its : for me.
There was a hotkey to toggle it, check settings, its : for me.
Auto-aim is the colon (:) and mouselook is the semicolon (;).
the auto aim does take into account the weapon's velocity if that's what you meant.
Thanks, I'll look over the hotkeys again to rebind it.
"Every ship in VO got it's own + and -, and since you are a newbie it doesnt matter what they got, you are going to loose." Faster Velocity / Refire weapons are not available at my equipment level. Ships must be equal for that reason, regardless of my skill level, for a meaningful "test".
I'm not trying to prove a newbie can defeat a veteran in this game, don't be silly - what I'm interested in is what moves are used to defeat me, and how long it takes. :)
Searching the forum for combat guides.
"Every ship in VO got it's own + and -, and since you are a newbie it doesnt matter what they got, you are going to loose." Faster Velocity / Refire weapons are not available at my equipment level. Ships must be equal for that reason, regardless of my skill level, for a meaningful "test".
I'm not trying to prove a newbie can defeat a veteran in this game, don't be silly - what I'm interested in is what moves are used to defeat me, and how long it takes. :)
Searching the forum for combat guides.
Btw of auto aim, you say it's easily fooled, it is true to a degree, but, most people can't fly in such a way that would fool it all the time.
Also not everyone can aim without it well enough for it to count anyway. (i know i can't)
So it's actually not useless, tho it can be good to toggle it, depending on situation.
Also not everyone can aim without it well enough for it to count anyway. (i know i can't)
So it's actually not useless, tho it can be good to toggle it, depending on situation.
"The later weapons are faster, and ships are bigger, but the improvement, based on the numbers, is marginal. I tried a faster weapon, combat vs an actively dodging foe (my friend in a duel) still seemed quite random for both. I had experience with 3D movement games from Terminus. He didn't. We finished fights within 5% of each other, with much boredom from the process."
"Ships must be equal for that reason, regardless of my skill level, for a meaningful "test"."
So is there not much difference between "endgame" stuff and i can bring whatever OR there actualy is a difference that matters ?
I think you are vo newbie who missed it with other game experience and after dodging one newbie you make guru-style judges on combat in vo, while you didn't even know that flares did exist because (ohmygod) you coulnd't get them right away!
"Ships must be equal for that reason, regardless of my skill level, for a meaningful "test"."
So is there not much difference between "endgame" stuff and i can bring whatever OR there actualy is a difference that matters ?
I think you are vo newbie who missed it with other game experience and after dodging one newbie you make guru-style judges on combat in vo, while you didn't even know that flares did exist because (ohmygod) you coulnd't get them right away!
It's well within your right to be loony and consider my suggestions "guru style" judgements.
I'm not a Guru in VO, but I'm familiar with the combat model, and that was just a FIRST IMPRESSION.The game has less then 1 hour to make someone not uninstall, and most people won't even leave a feedback note - hence the importance of showcasing the best at the start.
I still think that the game can be adjusted to create a better feel of the combat on all levels, and still maintain the depth of skill. There's a difference between the "twitch" of performing the job of an Aimbot and the "twitch" of performing the perfect maneuver and outplaying your foe.
I'm not a Guru in VO, but I'm familiar with the combat model, and that was just a FIRST IMPRESSION.The game has less then 1 hour to make someone not uninstall, and most people won't even leave a feedback note - hence the importance of showcasing the best at the start.
I still think that the game can be adjusted to create a better feel of the combat on all levels, and still maintain the depth of skill. There's a difference between the "twitch" of performing the job of an Aimbot and the "twitch" of performing the perfect maneuver and outplaying your foe.
I've never played Terminus or Subspace, but I did play Jumpgate.
Energized hull plating with weapon fire absorption using generated energy?
Jumpgate had Energy Shields. When some people's shield got low, they ran to let them recharge.
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...disposable thrusters... (3 per loadout, single activation with a fixed duration).
Jumpgate also had this and it made running way too easy (allows a ship +200% increase in engine thrust for a period of 10 seconds before the device is used up, could have 2 to 8 per ship, depending on the ship).
The only way I see VO making this be ok, would be this "disposable thruster" using a weapon slot (one per ship).
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Reduce the power of reverse thrusters. Make rear thruster stopping and maneuvering more powerful...
Also something Jumpgate had. To stop, most people cut throttle, did a 180, and used forward throttle. Fighters avg speed in Jumpgate was about 500 m/s with Scouts about 575 m/s, then you still had your "disposable thrusters" +200% speed for 10 sec. Once again, less fighting, and more running.
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Make most weapons in VO proximity detonated, like FLAK with proximity triggers.
I don't like proximity detonating weapons. I didn't like them in Jumpgate, and I don't like them in VO. A lot less skill required to use.
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In 1v1, group vs group, or FFA, I lived a lot longer in Jumpgate compared to VO. I think it is because VO is more focused on fighting and less focused on fast ships.
Energized hull plating with weapon fire absorption using generated energy?
Jumpgate had Energy Shields. When some people's shield got low, they ran to let them recharge.
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...disposable thrusters... (3 per loadout, single activation with a fixed duration).
Jumpgate also had this and it made running way too easy (allows a ship +200% increase in engine thrust for a period of 10 seconds before the device is used up, could have 2 to 8 per ship, depending on the ship).
The only way I see VO making this be ok, would be this "disposable thruster" using a weapon slot (one per ship).
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Reduce the power of reverse thrusters. Make rear thruster stopping and maneuvering more powerful...
Also something Jumpgate had. To stop, most people cut throttle, did a 180, and used forward throttle. Fighters avg speed in Jumpgate was about 500 m/s with Scouts about 575 m/s, then you still had your "disposable thrusters" +200% speed for 10 sec. Once again, less fighting, and more running.
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Make most weapons in VO proximity detonated, like FLAK with proximity triggers.
I don't like proximity detonating weapons. I didn't like them in Jumpgate, and I don't like them in VO. A lot less skill required to use.
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In 1v1, group vs group, or FFA, I lived a lot longer in Jumpgate compared to VO. I think it is because VO is more focused on fighting and less focused on fast ships.
There must be a chasing mechanic built in, like the suggestion in one of the threads for a higher top speed for the chaser (flying in the path of ships easier).
The Energized Hull is only worth mentioning (IMO) when it's combined with drawing the same energy (in big chunks) for Weapons Fire. Which also requires said weapons fire to be significantly powerful. It's in brackets in the original post because it's really not a serious suggestion - too much balancing required.
I'm not sure what would be the best solution with weapons - proximity depends greatly on implementation and risk to use vs reward when successful. (In Subspace one shot cost a huge chunk of your shields, to the point that in duels you counted a missed shot as -0.5, where a direct hit on your ship would be -1.)
An easier way to improve the weapons, could be velocity or fire density increases.
The Energized Hull is only worth mentioning (IMO) when it's combined with drawing the same energy (in big chunks) for Weapons Fire. Which also requires said weapons fire to be significantly powerful. It's in brackets in the original post because it's really not a serious suggestion - too much balancing required.
I'm not sure what would be the best solution with weapons - proximity depends greatly on implementation and risk to use vs reward when successful. (In Subspace one shot cost a huge chunk of your shields, to the point that in duels you counted a missed shot as -0.5, where a direct hit on your ship would be -1.)
An easier way to improve the weapons, could be velocity or fire density increases.
Tenet - try fighting another player with all-energy loadouts and see how fun it is.
Seekers are kinda dumb. In VO, all the seeker missiles are slow, so not only can you outrun them, you can usually out-turn them as well, which makes them useless if you have an opponent who is actively dodging. Firing seekers at anyone essentially only causes a pause in fighting while the target pays a little more attantion to avoiding the missiles until they run out of juice and disappear.
Flares are the perfect weapon. They hit almost every time, even if you don't fire directly at your opponent. They immobilize you, spin you around, and while you are attempting an escape vector, anyone decent with flares has already launched the next volley, which will usually hit directly and kill you or severely damage you. But flares are limited ammo. No fun for duels.
The best (and in my opinion, ONLY) way to fight is similar ships with similar weapon loadouts. Whirling around each other, each pilot attempting to get that next shot while denying their opponent the same chance - THAT's the fun of combat in VO.
Seekers are kinda dumb. In VO, all the seeker missiles are slow, so not only can you outrun them, you can usually out-turn them as well, which makes them useless if you have an opponent who is actively dodging. Firing seekers at anyone essentially only causes a pause in fighting while the target pays a little more attantion to avoiding the missiles until they run out of juice and disappear.
Flares are the perfect weapon. They hit almost every time, even if you don't fire directly at your opponent. They immobilize you, spin you around, and while you are attempting an escape vector, anyone decent with flares has already launched the next volley, which will usually hit directly and kill you or severely damage you. But flares are limited ammo. No fun for duels.
The best (and in my opinion, ONLY) way to fight is similar ships with similar weapon loadouts. Whirling around each other, each pilot attempting to get that next shot while denying their opponent the same chance - THAT's the fun of combat in VO.
there's already a large difference in the acceleration and top speed of a hog 2 and a moth, especially loaded. what would help is to create the reason for that moth to go out into dangerous space, which is something the devs are working towards. in the end, if a player outside a moth doesn't wanna be caught, he's not easily going to be. Unless being kos with nations/factions opens up buying faster ships from corvus that is.
It might be worth noting how many people try VO and instantly shoot other people. It might also be worth noting the average time a person has a ship worse then a Cent.
I'm not sure, but aside from the occasional EC that tries to shoot me as I'm leaving Dau, most are doing the training missions or some other mission like the scrap metal ones. I remember as a newb going through atleast five hours of Basic Training before I turned the trigger on anyone else, by which time I'd gotten into a Vult.
I guess what I'm saying is that I don't think your idea of what someone might do in that hour is quite on track. From experience, PvP is not what is going to pull in a player, it simply doesn't happen soon enough. This is, for all intents and purposes, a space sim, and *that's* what'll pull them in. VO's not space version of Warbirds.
Combat-wise, I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm not physics-y enough to say "yes" or "no". What I am saying that combat is not all of VO. Big? Sure. All? No.
I'm not sure, but aside from the occasional EC that tries to shoot me as I'm leaving Dau, most are doing the training missions or some other mission like the scrap metal ones. I remember as a newb going through atleast five hours of Basic Training before I turned the trigger on anyone else, by which time I'd gotten into a Vult.
I guess what I'm saying is that I don't think your idea of what someone might do in that hour is quite on track. From experience, PvP is not what is going to pull in a player, it simply doesn't happen soon enough. This is, for all intents and purposes, a space sim, and *that's* what'll pull them in. VO's not space version of Warbirds.
Combat-wise, I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm not physics-y enough to say "yes" or "no". What I am saying that combat is not all of VO. Big? Sure. All? No.
Quoting Genka:
"I'm chillin in B8, as I like to do, waiting for someone to encourage me to attack'em with the full fury of my somethingorother. Some non-newb bastard does just that, and we go at it for the two or three hours it takes two light ships with energy weapons to hit each other the four times it takes to blow one of them up. Some time later, my fingers start to cramp up, I swear to start flying cheap flare setups instead, and die in a glorious ball of flame, leaving my opponent at a comfy 10% hull or so."
Which matches my early assessment - prolonged low-feedback combat trying to land badly designed weapons on highly maneuverable opponents, culminating with the use of the imbalanced flares.
RP wise, this combat makes little sense at all, hundreds of years of development and such primitive and ineffective weaponry.
Anyway, I'm happy that the 100 or so people that have parked here are enjoying themselves. Carry on!
"I'm chillin in B8, as I like to do, waiting for someone to encourage me to attack'em with the full fury of my somethingorother. Some non-newb bastard does just that, and we go at it for the two or three hours it takes two light ships with energy weapons to hit each other the four times it takes to blow one of them up. Some time later, my fingers start to cramp up, I swear to start flying cheap flare setups instead, and die in a glorious ball of flame, leaving my opponent at a comfy 10% hull or so."
Which matches my early assessment - prolonged low-feedback combat trying to land badly designed weapons on highly maneuverable opponents, culminating with the use of the imbalanced flares.
RP wise, this combat makes little sense at all, hundreds of years of development and such primitive and ineffective weaponry.
Anyway, I'm happy that the 100 or so people that have parked here are enjoying themselves. Carry on!
LOL! You might have researched a bit more before quoting genka, of all people. He'll be far too pleased with himself.
Sadly, your quote suggests that you have been data mining on the forums to try to support your original post. While your first impressions certainly have importance in that we all need to concern ourselves with those critical first few hours, your refusal to examine what people are telling you here is frustrating. Please consider getting out of the forums, hopping into a ship, and taking on somebody who knows what they're doing. Take a chance at being wrong - you might be pleasantly surprised to learn something new.
Sadly, your quote suggests that you have been data mining on the forums to try to support your original post. While your first impressions certainly have importance in that we all need to concern ourselves with those critical first few hours, your refusal to examine what people are telling you here is frustrating. Please consider getting out of the forums, hopping into a ship, and taking on somebody who knows what they're doing. Take a chance at being wrong - you might be pleasantly surprised to learn something new.
I am not sure if it helps at all posting here......but here it goes anyway.
Most combats I am involved in takes less than two minutes with either me or my target an expanding ball of fire. I use strictly energy weapons but fight against whatever my opponenent feels is appropriate.
You can quote this one:
"I am chillng in B-8 when suddenly someone jumps in and wants to dance. We close and exchange fires and I come out on top with 14% hull remaining. I fly out to repair and jumps into B-8 again where the same person is once more hailing me. We close and this time he has changed his loadout. I boom with him having 14% to spare. I re-spawn and fly for B-8 this time ready for his flares."
When I have a bad day or when I fight Vehement (my nemesis), I get killed 10-15 times in an hour. When I have a good day and Veracity (the same) is not around, I kill 15-20 fighters in an hour. I sit sweating in front of the computer and my fingers tremble. If that is boring..... Then I don't know. Try Russian roulette with six bullets maybe?
Azumi, who is always ready to show you precisely how you are supposed to get killed
Most combats I am involved in takes less than two minutes with either me or my target an expanding ball of fire. I use strictly energy weapons but fight against whatever my opponenent feels is appropriate.
You can quote this one:
"I am chillng in B-8 when suddenly someone jumps in and wants to dance. We close and exchange fires and I come out on top with 14% hull remaining. I fly out to repair and jumps into B-8 again where the same person is once more hailing me. We close and this time he has changed his loadout. I boom with him having 14% to spare. I re-spawn and fly for B-8 this time ready for his flares."
When I have a bad day or when I fight Vehement (my nemesis), I get killed 10-15 times in an hour. When I have a good day and Veracity (the same) is not around, I kill 15-20 fighters in an hour. I sit sweating in front of the computer and my fingers tremble. If that is boring..... Then I don't know. Try Russian roulette with six bullets maybe?
Azumi, who is always ready to show you precisely how you are supposed to get killed
"RP wise, this combat makes little sense at all, hundreds of years of development and such primitive and ineffective weaponry."
I'm pretty sure the advancement in weaponry and technology is in the crafts maneuverability, the destructive force of the weapons, energy use, and resilience of our hulls. Taking a modern day ship (in game wise) for a stroll into the ships of the old wars would likely 1 shot them or the like (read some back story perhaps, if you're going into a discussion of the impact on RP). Unless you think development would lead to altering the laws of physics that is.
I'm pretty sure the advancement in weaponry and technology is in the crafts maneuverability, the destructive force of the weapons, energy use, and resilience of our hulls. Taking a modern day ship (in game wise) for a stroll into the ships of the old wars would likely 1 shot them or the like (read some back story perhaps, if you're going into a discussion of the impact on RP). Unless you think development would lead to altering the laws of physics that is.
RP wise, Serco's weaponry far outclasses itan's, where itanis have the best ships.
RP>
"I'm pretty sure the advancement in weaponry and technology is in the crafts maneuverability, the destructive force of the weapons, energy use, and resilience of our hulls."
Advancements typically solve the biggest problem - which in seems to be the difficulty of hitting the enemy target. Causing minimal damage but neutralizing the weapons systems, Enhancements in Automation, etc.
To keep a space game skill based some part of the theme should explain the limits on such technologies.
<RP
I didn't data mine the forum, I keep finding such comments all over the place, this was just one. I also found the PvP guide in the wiki, which confirmed some suspicions, but also talked about the depth that does exist in the game (like learning to overcome backrollers and prediction). My friend was actively rolling/strafing, that you call "back-rolling" but using multiple directions, to maintain distance and avoid predictability. It's a pretty obvious dodging method, that apparently takes significant training to overcome.
I also read about arguments in favor of enhancing weapon speeds across the board, which was countered by unexplained "latency concerns". Then there was someone saying that developers are pretty much satisfied and set on the combat system as it is.If true, that would be hubris to me, as there is always a way to polish and improve something.
"I'm pretty sure the advancement in weaponry and technology is in the crafts maneuverability, the destructive force of the weapons, energy use, and resilience of our hulls."
Advancements typically solve the biggest problem - which in seems to be the difficulty of hitting the enemy target. Causing minimal damage but neutralizing the weapons systems, Enhancements in Automation, etc.
To keep a space game skill based some part of the theme should explain the limits on such technologies.
<RP
I didn't data mine the forum, I keep finding such comments all over the place, this was just one. I also found the PvP guide in the wiki, which confirmed some suspicions, but also talked about the depth that does exist in the game (like learning to overcome backrollers and prediction). My friend was actively rolling/strafing, that you call "back-rolling" but using multiple directions, to maintain distance and avoid predictability. It's a pretty obvious dodging method, that apparently takes significant training to overcome.
I also read about arguments in favor of enhancing weapon speeds across the board, which was countered by unexplained "latency concerns". Then there was someone saying that developers are pretty much satisfied and set on the combat system as it is.If true, that would be hubris to me, as there is always a way to polish and improve something.