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Forbo, I would say you make a valid point, but so are "the others". So, will you able to leave with it if final result is that backward acceleration is kept as it is? Because looking at the thread with no preference on the outcome, I would say it will be kept as it is. If you want this game to be perfect you are wrong to start with, because there's no such thing.
Also, one point that may have not been stated yet: when someone backpedals, you can still get closer with turbo, especially when you are in a wolfpack. It requires skill to be done with less consequences alone, but the solution is there and then you can do your "thing" with the backpedaling enemy.
Also, one point that may have not been stated yet: when someone backpedals, you can still get closer with turbo, especially when you are in a wolfpack. It requires skill to be done with less consequences alone, but the solution is there and then you can do your "thing" with the backpedaling enemy.
I did things opposite, because when I learned that backwards flying was as fast and quick as forwards flying, I knew what to expect from other players when it came time to pvp. As I previously stated, I won roughly 70% of my matches. I can live with 50% - 70%... At'll do, but that doesn't mean at the same time that I liked it.
Also, AGT's suck anyway, the rarely ever score a hit and are heavy to boot. Additionally, the centaur is a massive target, not to mention that the last time I checked it is heavy and maneuvers badly in comparison to a fighter. You could simply keep your distance and fly rings around him. You have strafing and rolling for a reason ya know.
I'll keep that in mind. Thank you for the tip.
Also, AGT's suck anyway, the rarely ever score a hit and are heavy to boot. Additionally, the centaur is a massive target, not to mention that the last time I checked it is heavy and maneuvers badly in comparison to a fighter. You could simply keep your distance and fly rings around him. You have strafing and rolling for a reason ya know.
I'll keep that in mind. Thank you for the tip.
70% you say?
@ratonu: Well I agree about the valid points stuff. And I agree that most likely nothing will change, but at least I made a mention of it in a somewhat coherent manner from someone on this side of the fence.
Actually I did address using turbo, unfortunately, using turbo expends energy and in many cases turns you in to a sitting duck.
I've been struggling to figure out what it is about flight in VO that seems so ... off. There is just something about it...
I'm musing here so bear with me. Have you ever been fighting someone and had the feeling that you can't tell exactly what direction they are moving in?
*After watching some video* THAT'S WHAT IT IS! If you notice, the perspective seems warped when you turn. It's almost imperceptible, but if you pay very close attention, it seems as if the sides are closer to you than what is directly in front of you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3e8HT0gtlPw
Take a look at that vid. Pay attention the the things that are just out of the center of the viewscreen. Notice the station? How it seems as if the station is closer the farther away from the Reticle it is?
I've seen this effect before... In old dos games sometimes you could change your view perspective to up to 180 degrees, where normally you would see only 45 degrees. This causes the perspective to distort and it also causes things directly in front of you to look as though they are farther away than they really are. The inverse is true of the sides. The closer an object is to the edge of your screen, the more the perspective distorts and stretches so that it actually seems closer than it really is.
Is there a perspective setting in VO? If so, this could actually be the source of my underlying issues.
Here are two articles that explain it in depth:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perspective_distortion_caused_by_lens_focal_length
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perspective_correction_lens
Would someone be willing to read these articles and check it vs VO? It would save me ten bucks, but it's actually fairly obvious. I remember kinda taking notice of it when I first started playing VO, but I didn't put too much thought into it.
About 1 minute into this vid it starts becoming very noticeable: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_4Axj_x1NI&feature=related
This would explain why it's so easy to get somewhat disoriented in VO. It also might explain why I have so much trouble with disorientation sometimes. Notice how when lebermac is flying towards the asteroid field with the view behind his ship, it looks like he's in a tunnel?
Ignore my comments on backpedaling until after people have looked into this, as this may be the reason that it's such an issue to me.
Actually I did address using turbo, unfortunately, using turbo expends energy and in many cases turns you in to a sitting duck.
I've been struggling to figure out what it is about flight in VO that seems so ... off. There is just something about it...
I'm musing here so bear with me. Have you ever been fighting someone and had the feeling that you can't tell exactly what direction they are moving in?
*After watching some video* THAT'S WHAT IT IS! If you notice, the perspective seems warped when you turn. It's almost imperceptible, but if you pay very close attention, it seems as if the sides are closer to you than what is directly in front of you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3e8HT0gtlPw
Take a look at that vid. Pay attention the the things that are just out of the center of the viewscreen. Notice the station? How it seems as if the station is closer the farther away from the Reticle it is?
I've seen this effect before... In old dos games sometimes you could change your view perspective to up to 180 degrees, where normally you would see only 45 degrees. This causes the perspective to distort and it also causes things directly in front of you to look as though they are farther away than they really are. The inverse is true of the sides. The closer an object is to the edge of your screen, the more the perspective distorts and stretches so that it actually seems closer than it really is.
Is there a perspective setting in VO? If so, this could actually be the source of my underlying issues.
Here are two articles that explain it in depth:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perspective_distortion_caused_by_lens_focal_length
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perspective_correction_lens
Would someone be willing to read these articles and check it vs VO? It would save me ten bucks, but it's actually fairly obvious. I remember kinda taking notice of it when I first started playing VO, but I didn't put too much thought into it.
About 1 minute into this vid it starts becoming very noticeable: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_4Axj_x1NI&feature=related
This would explain why it's so easy to get somewhat disoriented in VO. It also might explain why I have so much trouble with disorientation sometimes. Notice how when lebermac is flying towards the asteroid field with the view behind his ship, it looks like he's in a tunnel?
Ignore my comments on backpedaling until after people have looked into this, as this may be the reason that it's such an issue to me.
You can set your field of view by typing "/set fov" and then a number which represents degrees. You can really warp it to be strange. Play around with that setting and maybe you'll be able to fix your problem.
I can't stand the way the background image warps when you move so I turn it off.
I'm not sure if 45degrees is the exact perspective... but would someone test it for me and see what what perspective things stop warping?? I'm at work atm, and if this is the main reason why I was having so many issues... well then /facepalm followed by /deaddesk
Would it be accurate to describe it by looking through one of those domed magnifying glass thingies while looking at a picture?
Would it be accurate to describe it by looking through one of those domed magnifying glass thingies while looking at a picture?
Alright, I've gone through all these posts now so let me try to address the points as they've evolved:
For the record, I fly with FA on 90% of the time. I know that Shape does the same thing. Victory in VO PvP is not all about backstrafing. That FA off is uniformly better than FA on is a common misconception. There are many different ways to fight and FA off is only one of them. Turning FA on is anything but a death sentence and I would encourage more people to try it. For one thing, energy shots are a hell of a lot easier to land with FA on.
Backrolling: First of all, the definition of backrolling has been lost in Vendetta. This isn't just Forboding_Angel, a lot of people misuse this term nowadays. Backrolling was termed for people who hold 3 keys, backwards strafe, a side strafe and a roll. That's it. It makes you virtually impossible to hit at range with aa. Distance control, which Angel mentioned, is something entirely different. It's (as the name implies) controlling the distance of the fight. This doesn't mean staying at 800m out and spamming energy, I wouldn't even call that engaged. It's dictating when you move in and out of weapons range. Eldrad was the best distance control pilot I've ever seen and he almost never was outside of 250m.
Yes, backrolling is frustrating, but when backrolling it's almost impossible to score a hit. It's a viable defensive tactic, but a backroller should never EVER be hitting his target. If he is, then it's usually pilot error. Also, effective energy weapons range is inside 150m. Unless you're in a rag or a trade ship, you should not be getting hit outside of that. So yes, I agree with you that backrolling is very annoying, but you don't have to deal with fighting backrollers if you don't want to. A backroller should never win a fight.
A useful tip is to know your weapon's range. Test on an asteroid to see when your shots stop hitting. Neutrons and posis have a range of 600m. Unless your enemy has forward velocity it is virtually impossible for you to be hit by those weapons outside of that range.
If the backwards acceleration is reduced, rockets would become dominate as I think a few people mentioned. As Angel mentioned, they would have to be reworked along with the flight model if this were to change.
In regards to missiles, I understand your frustration. People insult missile users because they're fire and forget weapons, which is in reality no reason to insult someone. You kind of have to shrug off the people who will mock you. Most of them will be upset because they got shot down by missiles which means they have only themselves to blame. Missiles are actually very easy to dodge, whether spammed or not which is why I fail to see why people get so angry, and yet they do. Unfortunately, I think people will always criticize missiles no matter what.
The "Gentlemans rules" of PvP came from a time when a fight was pretty much an agreement and an acknowledgment that neither party had to fight, but that it wanted to and would. This is rapidly becoming a thing of the past anyways as I think it should. Its time is past now. People need to start exercising every method at their disposal to destroy their enemy and those getting destroyed by "dirty" tactics need to stop writing them off as cheap and start learning how to counter them.
As for the attraction of PvP, IMHO that's been the only thread that's held VO together for so long. So there must be some attraction there. I mean, no offence Inc, but let's face it. For most of the time vendetta has existed it's had basically nothing to offer but PvP. There's gotta be a little fun there for VO to still be around.
Anyhow, I understand your frustrations, but I don't think I can agree with the suggested changes. This is a system that has kept a lot of people coming back to this game for a long time now and what many believe to be the only (again, no offence inc =P) good thing about Vendetta.
For the record, I fly with FA on 90% of the time. I know that Shape does the same thing. Victory in VO PvP is not all about backstrafing. That FA off is uniformly better than FA on is a common misconception. There are many different ways to fight and FA off is only one of them. Turning FA on is anything but a death sentence and I would encourage more people to try it. For one thing, energy shots are a hell of a lot easier to land with FA on.
Backrolling: First of all, the definition of backrolling has been lost in Vendetta. This isn't just Forboding_Angel, a lot of people misuse this term nowadays. Backrolling was termed for people who hold 3 keys, backwards strafe, a side strafe and a roll. That's it. It makes you virtually impossible to hit at range with aa. Distance control, which Angel mentioned, is something entirely different. It's (as the name implies) controlling the distance of the fight. This doesn't mean staying at 800m out and spamming energy, I wouldn't even call that engaged. It's dictating when you move in and out of weapons range. Eldrad was the best distance control pilot I've ever seen and he almost never was outside of 250m.
Yes, backrolling is frustrating, but when backrolling it's almost impossible to score a hit. It's a viable defensive tactic, but a backroller should never EVER be hitting his target. If he is, then it's usually pilot error. Also, effective energy weapons range is inside 150m. Unless you're in a rag or a trade ship, you should not be getting hit outside of that. So yes, I agree with you that backrolling is very annoying, but you don't have to deal with fighting backrollers if you don't want to. A backroller should never win a fight.
A useful tip is to know your weapon's range. Test on an asteroid to see when your shots stop hitting. Neutrons and posis have a range of 600m. Unless your enemy has forward velocity it is virtually impossible for you to be hit by those weapons outside of that range.
If the backwards acceleration is reduced, rockets would become dominate as I think a few people mentioned. As Angel mentioned, they would have to be reworked along with the flight model if this were to change.
In regards to missiles, I understand your frustration. People insult missile users because they're fire and forget weapons, which is in reality no reason to insult someone. You kind of have to shrug off the people who will mock you. Most of them will be upset because they got shot down by missiles which means they have only themselves to blame. Missiles are actually very easy to dodge, whether spammed or not which is why I fail to see why people get so angry, and yet they do. Unfortunately, I think people will always criticize missiles no matter what.
The "Gentlemans rules" of PvP came from a time when a fight was pretty much an agreement and an acknowledgment that neither party had to fight, but that it wanted to and would. This is rapidly becoming a thing of the past anyways as I think it should. Its time is past now. People need to start exercising every method at their disposal to destroy their enemy and those getting destroyed by "dirty" tactics need to stop writing them off as cheap and start learning how to counter them.
As for the attraction of PvP, IMHO that's been the only thread that's held VO together for so long. So there must be some attraction there. I mean, no offence Inc, but let's face it. For most of the time vendetta has existed it's had basically nothing to offer but PvP. There's gotta be a little fun there for VO to still be around.
Anyhow, I understand your frustrations, but I don't think I can agree with the suggested changes. This is a system that has kept a lot of people coming back to this game for a long time now and what many believe to be the only (again, no offence inc =P) good thing about Vendetta.
Random thought: Are there any videos of Eldrad or Shape or Nerde Verde fighting? Ghost's videos are awesome and I can only assume that videos of/by other old school masters would be the same.
The default field of view in Vendetta is 75°. It is 85-90° in most FPS games.
Interesting. Tonight or tomorrow I'll resub and check it out. Thanks slime :-)
MASSIVE IMPROVEMENT
Fov 60 is wonderful. My thanks to Denji Royhu (A guy from this forum but I neglected to get his name) who went hive killing with me last night, even managed to get my hive hunter 1 badge. Was good times.
Thank you Denji.
Fov 60 is wonderful. My thanks to Denji Royhu (A guy from this forum but I neglected to get his name) who went hive killing with me last night, even managed to get my hive hunter 1 badge. Was good times.
Thank you Denji.
all well when it ends well :)
the /set fov xx was a good tip, should have known that by now.
the /set fov xx was a good tip, should have known that by now.
F_A: Are you, by chance, playing in a 16:9 resolution, on a widescreen type monitor?
The default FOV was implemented and tested on 4:3 CRTs back in the day. These days, widescreen LCDs are becoming the de-facto standard, and the current FOV defaults look pretty uhh.. "woozy" on these screens (or on my 4:3 CRT, running the game in 1280x720 windowed).
We're kicking around options on the development side, for ways of handling this.. maybe dropping the default FOV on 16:9 resolutions, or some such (any change would impact only new users, of course).
The default FOV was implemented and tested on 4:3 CRTs back in the day. These days, widescreen LCDs are becoming the de-facto standard, and the current FOV defaults look pretty uhh.. "woozy" on these screens (or on my 4:3 CRT, running the game in 1280x720 windowed).
We're kicking around options on the development side, for ways of handling this.. maybe dropping the default FOV on 16:9 resolutions, or some such (any change would impact only new users, of course).
Hmm... I've been playing VO on a WS aspect ratio a lot and did not notice any profound difference. But then I am able to adjust to a lot.
@incarnate
Yes, 16:10 actually. 24" lcd panel at 1920x1200. I have the settings cranked up to max (good lord my 9600gt loves this game) and tbh the win is so hardcore it makes my balls hurt.
Fov 60 still warps just a wee bit, but not enough so you would notice if you wern't paying attention.
I assume fov 75 is great for a crt with a curved screen. Until recently I was using a 21"Crt flatscreen and I could notice the warpyness back then, but on the other hand, I didn't know how to change it.
Yes, 16:10 actually. 24" lcd panel at 1920x1200. I have the settings cranked up to max (good lord my 9600gt loves this game) and tbh the win is so hardcore it makes my balls hurt.
Fov 60 still warps just a wee bit, but not enough so you would notice if you wern't paying attention.
I assume fov 75 is great for a crt with a curved screen. Until recently I was using a 21"Crt flatscreen and I could notice the warpyness back then, but on the other hand, I didn't know how to change it.
Well, we've all had flatscreens since well before they were the norm. I still use a 21" Sony crt (since I like having contrast). But the amount of corner skewing is not nearly as great on a 4:3 aspect as it is on 16:9 or 16:10. We're currently discussing ways of improving that.
Great post Ghost, I can sign this from A to Z.