Chloroform, a lot of your complaints about Itani in general are unfound. I could apply the same words to plenty of Serco, and I know plenty of Itani that put a fair fight over anything else.

The best way to kill a prom is to fly in groups, so out of necessity that's how many Itani fly. Whether or not you are flying a prom, if you encounter a group of Itani who are expecting one somewhere like Deneb, you should expect nothing less than a group assault.

If you want one on one's, ask for it. Most players would be happy to accept, unless they're in the middle of something. But going into a place like Deneb with established standars of prom vs. Itani group and trying to impose your own ideas of honor just will not work.

And if you want to actually gain skill and not just levels, go for the battles where you are outnumbered. This is the best way to learn to fight. It can be frustrating, but it quickly exposes you to a wide variety of tactics and styles.

"The Itani seem to have it in their minds that harassing the Serco is the most fun to be had in the game."

When I log on I'm going to fly into C10 and B12 and look for Serco to kill, because PVP gives me the most enjoyment. Until you tell me something like "Hey Smit, back off I'm trying to ______" (assuming _____ is something like "gain levels" and not "grief n00bs") I'll let you by. Until you let me know that I'm obstructing your fun, how can I change my behavior? Admittedly, this isn't going to work with everyone, but from personal experience most Itani are not killjoy assholes, and will at least take what you say into consideration.

"They don't care about sportsmanship, and they certainly don't care about being polite."

If you're talking about spamming or running and have witnessed someone from [Itan] doing such things, please report it. We do not tolerate such dishonorable tactics. As for applying that comment to all Itani, consider SCAR's LT who boots members for running and spamming while he himself employs those tactics readily. Not all jerks choose blue.

Slime- That's because other people aren't being as discourteous as you are.

Smit:
"When I log on I'm going to immediately spew as much lies, slander and all around bullshit about SCAR and Serco in general as possible."

Fixed.

"As for applying that comment to all Itani, consider SCAR's LT who boots members for running and spamming while he himself employs those tactics readily."

{FLAME DELETED - Whistler}

Slime, if no Itani are taking the mission, there ARE no Serco bots spawned to attack you. Hence, it doesn't matter if you're KoS with them or not.

Half the time I'm BPing, there's at least one Itani that comes into C-10 to attack the serco flying a prom. Sometimes, there are more Itani with proms in C-10 than there are Serco with proms. The whole justification of "Oh, Serco have overpowered proms, so we're free to gank them anytime/anywhere for it" is complete bullshit, and you know it.

Today I was helping two newbies level up in BP. Then some Itani schoolgirl in an IBG shows up without taking the mission and uses a diamond dodge bind to ruin our fun. Soon SolarFlare shows up too and helps gank the newbs. Eventually an Itani HAC from BS settled over the center of the wormhole and made it impossible for us to even get to the BP sector to complete our mission, so we all got into rags and tried to remove it. So immediately schoolgirl, SolarFlare and Iry come and shoot us in the backs as we try to rid the WH of the HAC until the newbs got so sick of it they gave up and logged off.

So Slime, you're part of the problem.
Bean, you're part of the problem too, flying proms around in Deneb and Geira, harassing our newbs and shooting our ships.
Smittens, you ARE the problem. You can act all high-and-mighty on the forums, but you're not fooling anyone. Every Serco who playes knows you [have (Edit by Whistler)] nothing better to do than try and piss everyone off. It's you and people like you who ruin the game for the Serco, and everyone else in general.

while i'm not coming at smitty's rescue, and for having been a serco myself, i can say that there are abusers and jerks on all 3 sides of the fence.

the problem here is that the missions are broken by design and encourage cheating and abuse.

Chloroform, you must be jesting. As Itani, we've provided the *ideal* roleplaying situation for any Serco. A group of dishonorable, cheap, cowards that still manage to pwn you for all their negative qualities. That should be any Serco's wet dream. You should be rallying the troops to defeat the evil, wicked Itani. Not... calling us names. That doesn't help your problem. (That's why I picked Itani when I *really* wanted to join Serco for the Prometheus.)

When you start attacking a person's ego instead of their ship, they have no choice *but* to utterly pwn you, to show you that your words don't mean shit. It doesn't matter if we resort to tactics that maximize our advantages. Personally, once you start whining like a kid, you've ended any chance of my treating you with respect or honor. But, if you just shutup and give a good fight, I know plenty of Itani that will salute you for it. Especially if you win.

Mynt, you're also part of the problem.
In before lord spidey, he is too.

In fact I can only name four Itani off the top of my head who aren't inherently dishonorable in the way they fight, or unjustifiably abusive of the Serco on public channels. Those are Niki, Ghost, Genotype and upper case.

I'm not saying everyone else is an asshole, but man, it sure seems like it most of the time! I can count on one hand the number of fair fights Itani have put up against me in the last three months (excluding big events). The way I see it, there just aren't many Itani who actually care about a fair fight; they don't see the fun in a challenging face-off, so they just go for whatever gets them the easiest kills. That's why I see so many Itani spamming missiles or running away from any fight that goes sour for them.

Impavid: probably.
Cunjo: you're saying us Itani should just lay back and let you take over Deneb?
I probably should've taken the mission, I'm sorry, but if I recall correctly the schoolgirl, who had just grouped up with me, was just about to take the mission as you guys moved to B-12.

Going back to the first post -- hive skirmish is easy and gives cash and good combat xp. In general, if you don't want to fight real people for whatever reason the bots are always there waiting for you. Though, it is unfortunate that the hive is such as poor approximation of pvp...

The personal attacks are out of hand. Reel it in or face game/forum muting. I have altered some of the more extreme examples.

Also, there's no filter in the forums. Out of deference to others, please cool the language from here on in.

Thank you to all who didn't go there.

I'm with upper case: no one nation has cornered the market on poor behavior.

This mock racism needs to go. For years people have been saying, "Itani are this" and "Serco are that". Fact of the matter is, nobody flies or acts the same. If you have a problem with someone or even a group of people, blaming the entire nation is ignorant and pretty ridiculous. We're all just gamers. Suggesting that the Itani or Serco all have the same type of people playing the game is pretty far fetched.

If you feel someone is infringing your ability to enjoy the game, either talk with them POLITELY (I always find the people who say "Goddamnit, stop ganking me you *@#$*@*!" and then expect the other pilot to actually listen to them amusing) or file a complaint with a guide or dev. There are people who act less than kind on all sides. Take it up on an individual basis.

As for BP and BS, they are (as with the rest of the entire game) activities that involve NON-CONSENTUAL PvP. If you're there, you might get shot just for being there. Doesn't matter what you do or don't do. That's the risk you take.

As for wh camping, annoying as it is, it's still a legitimate tactic. Wormholes are the only "choke points" vendetta has. Personally I find it makes things much less fun, but not all people agree.

Chloroform: My post is not in response to you, so please don't take offence. This is about a topic that goes way back.

Generalizations aren't generalizations in VO, because the player base is small enough that only a few loud individuals, such as Cunjo or apparently me have enough personality to cover up the identity of a nation. When I was new, I thought that all Serco were loud, obnoxious, and liked to cuss alot, but it turned out it was just the C-dude. Which is suiting for a game based around war; it's alot to easier to kill someone if you don't have any preference over their feelings.

""When I log on I'm going to immediately spew as much lies, slander and all around bullshit about SCAR and Serco in general as possible.""

Actually I like most people in SCAR, no matter how they feel of me. IE, I apologized to Nauty, and I doubt he likes me any better than he used to, but now I can see that he's not such a bad guy.

"Half the time I'm BPing, there's at least one Itani that comes into C-10"

Oh no! How could they take a mission! What selfish bastards

"The whole justification of "Oh, Serco have overpowered proms, so we're free to gank them anytime/anywhere for it" is complete bullshit"

You're right. Using any excuse for ganking is bullshit, because there should be no need for an excuse. It's part of VO for a reason. When I joined there was no word like "gank" (or at least, no one used it). B8 was full of giant battles between Itani and Serco, and if you didn't have anyone to help you, tough luck. Either log off, go somewhere else, or enjoy the practice. It's just deteriorating standards and all this bitching about "the right to one on one!" Uh, if that were the case I'm pretty sure there would only be consensual combat.

"then some Itani schoolgirl in an IBG shows up without taking the mission and uses a diamond dodge bind"

Nothing wrong with diamond dodges. It's not the best way to learn to fight, as anyone that recognizes it can take you out pretty quickly, but it gives less experienced players the chance to focus on aiming practice.

"to ruin our fun"

Do you honestly think schoolgirl sits down at her computer and comes online for the express purpose of making other people feel bad? Somehow (maybe based on my slight understanding of our generally nice community) I doubt it.

"I'm not saying everyone else is an asshole, but man, it sure seems like it most of the time!"

Quoted from the RP forums: Yeah Cunjo. Everybody but you is an ass. You alone are the one sane, respectable individual.

--

I know I'm no saint, but at least I can recognize that people dislike me because of things I do and not because they're all stupid.

--

Whistler, I tried to keep this as free of personal insults as possible... I'm just trying to comment on a few things that are cruel to either myself or my good buds who play this game. Feel free to edit this post as you see fit, or take it out if you must. If so, and I am crossing the line, I'll try to refrain from posting in this thread again to let it cool down. And no Cunjo, I'm not acting all high and mighty, just rereading my posts.

Smitten, you're not dancing.

It's fine Smittens.

Am I wrong in thinking that if somebody is in the Border Patrol or Border Skirmish sectors, they have consented to PvP by default? That's how I've always looked at it. Also, in my opinion, 1:1 is a reasonable expectation for duels held away from BP, BS, or a furball, but is not reasonable to expect in those areas or piracy.

At this point in VO, I think if somebody logs on they consent to PVP. If we get crowded enough that you can't get 1 on 1 in a random sector, maybe that'll be reevaluated.

It just comes down to the level of intensity people play at. Some are casual and don't really get into the story, so they may expect more of a BF2 style play, where you log on everything is "in bounds" to do and you can leave 10 minutes later. Others get deep into roleplay and the like and thus, Deneb is a war, the itani are defending their homes (despite any historical reasons for the war, they are defending now) and the Serco are attacking. So some play like that, fighting tooth and nail to defend their land or to crush the enemy that tried to bring their race to extinction millenia ago.

So the best thing to do is be understanding.

Wow smittens, you really know how to ignore context!
Not that it's a huge accomplisment or anything.

As I understand it, the problem has nothing to do with PvP. Most Serco want PvP. The problem is that whenever we try to get some against the Itani, they attack us 3 against 1 and then brag about killing us on 100, or have the gall to insult our tactics. It gets really old, really fast when you have 3-4 Itani ganking you in BP, and then justifying it on 100 by accusing you of spamming or promjocking, regardless of what you actually happen to be doing.

Smittens for example accuses me of swarm spamming even when I'm flying an SVG. I have yet to figure out how to manage that.

Perhaps you were taking what he said out of context?

I will say it again Border patrol IS NOT somewhere new players should be leveled...