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For quite a while, i was very interested in this game. It looked like it would hold a lot of promise as far as gameplay. I got a nice score and was doing quite well for a while. However, i've always had my qualms about this game, piracy and newbi killing are NOT fun. Today just drove me over the edge.
Piracy is just too rampant, people who have the skills simply prey on those who don't, and don't give a rip about it. Red nation has run completely amuk with newbi killers and pirates. Trading is now a matter of go anywhere and get killed by a red or gold pirate. Anyone trying to climb the ladder of skill... forget it because they're gona kill you.
Maybe this Predator vs. Prey system is all right for some. But for the many people who have entered the game gotten pirated and left, I fee the need to say that this game is a complete waste of time.
Good Day
Piracy is just too rampant, people who have the skills simply prey on those who don't, and don't give a rip about it. Red nation has run completely amuk with newbi killers and pirates. Trading is now a matter of go anywhere and get killed by a red or gold pirate. Anyone trying to climb the ladder of skill... forget it because they're gona kill you.
Maybe this Predator vs. Prey system is all right for some. But for the many people who have entered the game gotten pirated and left, I fee the need to say that this game is a complete waste of time.
Good Day
And I wonder what this has to do with the engine.
Skyfox, remember, this is more along the lines of a beta-test, it is not a "game." The info says that CTF was added to make everything more enjoyable. Remember this isn't about being good or making money or what not, but offering your computer to Guild Software as a service for them to test a game on.
Instead of complaining, why not propose a ranking/reputation system [whacky idea] with automated defenses in a sector that attack pirates?[/whacky idea]
Skyfox, remember, this is more along the lines of a beta-test, it is not a "game." The info says that CTF was added to make everything more enjoyable. Remember this isn't about being good or making money or what not, but offering your computer to Guild Software as a service for them to test a game on.
Instead of complaining, why not propose a ranking/reputation system [whacky idea] with automated defenses in a sector that attack pirates?[/whacky idea]
*sigh* Another "I QUIT!!" post. Here it comes...
Rant Mode: ON
For the record this isn't THE game that'll be available on the shelves once it's completed. The game based off of it is far from what we have now featurewise. As a beta tester, however, you need to realize that betas change constantly. For every major update that's released for Vendetta TEST, there will almost always be unseen balance issues that'll slip by. But guess what! It's OUR job as beta testers to report balance issues and bugs.
I believe you need to have some level of understanding as to who the devs are and why everything is the way it is right now. These guys get paid little to nothing for working on the game. See the PayPal donate button at the left? That's the only source of income they get out of us. That's all, just donations. Eventually it be a pay-to-play MMORPG, but right now they're working their asses off trying to address bug fixes while adding new features simultaneously. It's not easy, and believe it or not they still have the time to listen to what we have to say now and then. Unfortunately they don't have all the time in the world to address every single complaint or issue. They try to do their best by offering an automated bug reporter and a messageboard. So please, save your "this game is doomed!" or "what a waste of time!" crap for someone else.
And before you think about beta testing any other games, realize that one of the challenges of being a being a beta tester is patience. You need to have some level of commitment before even thinking about downloading an open beta game. If you don't have any intention of helping out in the testing process, you might as well not even download it at all. Because chances are you'll just end up quitting, expecting the game to be perfect and finalized. Knowing that you may be playing a buggy or unbalanced game is the price you pay for being a FREE beta tester.
And for what it's worth, a lot of the poor behavior and newbie killing will eventually be resolved in the future with what might be a penalty system, more active guides/moderators, or improved station defenses. Maybe all of the above. Of course if you're not willing to make that commitment, you probably won't stick around long enough to see such an excellent game unfold in the development process. And that's one of the many priceless treats you get for being a beta tester.
Rant Mode: OFF
Rant Mode: ON
For the record this isn't THE game that'll be available on the shelves once it's completed. The game based off of it is far from what we have now featurewise. As a beta tester, however, you need to realize that betas change constantly. For every major update that's released for Vendetta TEST, there will almost always be unseen balance issues that'll slip by. But guess what! It's OUR job as beta testers to report balance issues and bugs.
I believe you need to have some level of understanding as to who the devs are and why everything is the way it is right now. These guys get paid little to nothing for working on the game. See the PayPal donate button at the left? That's the only source of income they get out of us. That's all, just donations. Eventually it be a pay-to-play MMORPG, but right now they're working their asses off trying to address bug fixes while adding new features simultaneously. It's not easy, and believe it or not they still have the time to listen to what we have to say now and then. Unfortunately they don't have all the time in the world to address every single complaint or issue. They try to do their best by offering an automated bug reporter and a messageboard. So please, save your "this game is doomed!" or "what a waste of time!" crap for someone else.
And before you think about beta testing any other games, realize that one of the challenges of being a being a beta tester is patience. You need to have some level of commitment before even thinking about downloading an open beta game. If you don't have any intention of helping out in the testing process, you might as well not even download it at all. Because chances are you'll just end up quitting, expecting the game to be perfect and finalized. Knowing that you may be playing a buggy or unbalanced game is the price you pay for being a FREE beta tester.
And for what it's worth, a lot of the poor behavior and newbie killing will eventually be resolved in the future with what might be a penalty system, more active guides/moderators, or improved station defenses. Maybe all of the above. Of course if you're not willing to make that commitment, you probably won't stick around long enough to see such an excellent game unfold in the development process. And that's one of the many priceless treats you get for being a beta tester.
Rant Mode: OFF
Might I say, there's just as many blue pirates as there are gold and red ones, so don't try to make your nation look like something special. And if you want to get skills, then pirates are just helping you, giving you an insentive to get better; you either get good at running, or you die. Really people.
/me likes SirCamps wacky idea
/me likes SirCamps wacky idea
Why can't people just slip out quietly?
I agree with Arolte about pirates. I adhere to a pretty strict code and don't enjoy duels. If it wasn't for pirates and flag cappers I wouldn't see any combat at all.
I agree with Arolte about pirates. I adhere to a pretty strict code and don't enjoy duels. If it wasn't for pirates and flag cappers I wouldn't see any combat at all.
/me agrees with Whistler and Arlote.
people shouldnt complain! plus! being pirated helps you get to know your team! some people are willing to help fight off pirates unless they're busy! i know im never busy unless im caping or im on a trade day.
<rant> I really dont want to get to the point where we have to say before you download the game: Piracy is a part of the game! Live with it! Thats how it works in the real world buddies! if you get pirated, boohoo! find another route to go on! there are quite a few! and if those are being pirated offer to pay some one to escort you, or maybe some one will do it for free! (huh what a thought)
I really hate people who anti social in the game and dont ask for help from being pirated who just whine later on and leave. if you dont like pirates and are too lazy to ask, don't anounce it! Piracy is the way of the game.
About skill now, See, people just dont play and have skill. They play to get skill! dude, think of all the people who had to live through piracy to get where they are now! It was like that for me but im doing alright now (that reminds me i have to go botting.) but what you should do for skill, go botting! BOT LIKE MAD! some bots are really hard to kill. But if you kill em, your getting better! some bots drop nice cargo, so dont use missles you energy guns and a med. Fighter to kill bots. You get money, and you skills improve! once your skills are that so you can kill (most) bots eaisly, you can trade by yourself.
About Predetor vs. Prey, see, this is where you know that your goverment isnt working that great (granted there isnt much of one for anyof us right now, but i mean... hey) your fellow teammates should help protect n00bs. I try my best to protect n00bs from piracy. I have hunted quite a few people for hours for piracy. I am totaly against n00b killing, unless n00b attacks first.
</rant>
(rant HTML idea taken from Arlote. heh.)
if NONE of these things work. Join another nation. it is as simple as that.
people shouldnt complain! plus! being pirated helps you get to know your team! some people are willing to help fight off pirates unless they're busy! i know im never busy unless im caping or im on a trade day.
<rant> I really dont want to get to the point where we have to say before you download the game: Piracy is a part of the game! Live with it! Thats how it works in the real world buddies! if you get pirated, boohoo! find another route to go on! there are quite a few! and if those are being pirated offer to pay some one to escort you, or maybe some one will do it for free! (huh what a thought)
I really hate people who anti social in the game and dont ask for help from being pirated who just whine later on and leave. if you dont like pirates and are too lazy to ask, don't anounce it! Piracy is the way of the game.
About skill now, See, people just dont play and have skill. They play to get skill! dude, think of all the people who had to live through piracy to get where they are now! It was like that for me but im doing alright now (that reminds me i have to go botting.) but what you should do for skill, go botting! BOT LIKE MAD! some bots are really hard to kill. But if you kill em, your getting better! some bots drop nice cargo, so dont use missles you energy guns and a med. Fighter to kill bots. You get money, and you skills improve! once your skills are that so you can kill (most) bots eaisly, you can trade by yourself.
About Predetor vs. Prey, see, this is where you know that your goverment isnt working that great (granted there isnt much of one for anyof us right now, but i mean... hey) your fellow teammates should help protect n00bs. I try my best to protect n00bs from piracy. I have hunted quite a few people for hours for piracy. I am totaly against n00b killing, unless n00b attacks first.
</rant>
(rant HTML idea taken from Arlote. heh.)
if NONE of these things work. Join another nation. it is as simple as that.
Listen, if some one is complaining about 2 nations, logically they can't join another nation to solve the problem, the other nation they wre complaining about will still be able to kill the person.
Perhaps the problem is that we need to set up a BETA test for human nature.
/me realizes sui is right
but what i was trying to get at, maybe another nation would be more willing to help protect you. but what ever. i Guess your right sui.
but what i was trying to get at, maybe another nation would be more willing to help protect you. but what ever. i Guess your right sui.
See the other pirate thread about the idea of having a weaponless fast ship ONLY for testing purposes (ie not in the final game). This might help the engine test along until the game evolves to the point where other systems (reputation system, gizmos, balanced ships and weapons, role playing) all help with the rampant pirating.
(btw - I am not against pirating, i just think it should be real pirating and not just rampant killing)
(btw - I am not against pirating, i just think it should be real pirating and not just rampant killing)
/me agrees with slappyknappy.
pirating isnt bad... toomuch killing is bad. way bad.
pirating isnt bad... toomuch killing is bad. way bad.
Like everybody knows who knows me I hate pirating , and I will use my last penny to stop it. When somebody got pirated , you just had to call me and I was there, yes this is for the blue jockeys out there.
There are still blue people that care about you, problem is, you have to wait another 3-4 weeks before I'm able to enter the game.
To much work now with diploma work and all :(.
In all, I hope you will stick sky, just so you can kick some pirate ass together with same minded people ;)
PS: sky, whenever sui or nighty or White Magic is on, ask them to train you. Tell them that I send you, and then they will help you ;)
cheers
There are still blue people that care about you, problem is, you have to wait another 3-4 weeks before I'm able to enter the game.
To much work now with diploma work and all :(.
In all, I hope you will stick sky, just so you can kick some pirate ass together with same minded people ;)
PS: sky, whenever sui or nighty or White Magic is on, ask them to train you. Tell them that I send you, and then they will help you ;)
cheers
Not again a "I quit" post *sigh*
Having played this game for a just a couple of weeks, I think one of the most important problems people are having is their own ego.
Last week some red people station camped at 15 and killed everyone coming out of the station. I told a fellow gold to just stay in the station, do something else (like watching TV, this was what I did), but he wouldn't listen - just came out again and again and got killed everytime - afterwards, he was broke.
I myself just stayed in 15 and waited until the fools got tired and went out of sector 15.
I think that a lot of people take it personally if they got shot or pirated - come on, people, it's a game. If you aren't good enough to kill the guy attacking you, just avoid him until your good enough. Ask your teammates to train you, ask them to help you - this game is nothing for the maverick types. (Although there are expections, like Icarus).
About the matter of pirating: pirating is OK and adds fun and excitement to this game - especially if you are on a trading run. I've been pirated quite a lot, and most pirates I know (for example UncleDave or Grim Battol) are fighting fair and are reasonable - they'll attack you once and leave you a lone for a while.
Imagine - trading without the risk of being pirated - this would be quite boring.
So, my piece of advice is:
1.) Don't get your ego bruised if you are killed - be a sport: if the other guy is better than you, admit it, don't be bad loser.
2.) if the game starts being ugly, just go to the station and wait till it's civil again.
3.) If you are trading, run - don't fight. A running marauder with medium engine and fast charge battery is nearly impossible to pursue.
4.) Don't let yourself be provoked/taunted. Talk is cheap.
BTW - I'm rather a mediocre fighter, but I made 11.7 Millions in trading..
Regards,
Mark (Commander Jameson)
Having played this game for a just a couple of weeks, I think one of the most important problems people are having is their own ego.
Last week some red people station camped at 15 and killed everyone coming out of the station. I told a fellow gold to just stay in the station, do something else (like watching TV, this was what I did), but he wouldn't listen - just came out again and again and got killed everytime - afterwards, he was broke.
I myself just stayed in 15 and waited until the fools got tired and went out of sector 15.
I think that a lot of people take it personally if they got shot or pirated - come on, people, it's a game. If you aren't good enough to kill the guy attacking you, just avoid him until your good enough. Ask your teammates to train you, ask them to help you - this game is nothing for the maverick types. (Although there are expections, like Icarus).
About the matter of pirating: pirating is OK and adds fun and excitement to this game - especially if you are on a trading run. I've been pirated quite a lot, and most pirates I know (for example UncleDave or Grim Battol) are fighting fair and are reasonable - they'll attack you once and leave you a lone for a while.
Imagine - trading without the risk of being pirated - this would be quite boring.
So, my piece of advice is:
1.) Don't get your ego bruised if you are killed - be a sport: if the other guy is better than you, admit it, don't be bad loser.
2.) if the game starts being ugly, just go to the station and wait till it's civil again.
3.) If you are trading, run - don't fight. A running marauder with medium engine and fast charge battery is nearly impossible to pursue.
4.) Don't let yourself be provoked/taunted. Talk is cheap.
BTW - I'm rather a mediocre fighter, but I made 11.7 Millions in trading..
Regards,
Mark (Commander Jameson)
Pirates are not that present...
efficent engine + fast charge batteries and you can make quite some money..
I'm a multimillionnaire... and I've probably lost no more than 200k to pirates....
Just set your home station to 15 when you get there so when you die you can buy other ships
If there are too many pirates at a certain time.. just come at different times.. when pirates are asleep!
efficent engine + fast charge batteries and you can make quite some money..
I'm a multimillionnaire... and I've probably lost no more than 200k to pirates....
Just set your home station to 15 when you get there so when you die you can buy other ships
If there are too many pirates at a certain time.. just come at different times.. when pirates are asleep!
portchop,
I know that trick to, got to a nice 4 mill because of it in the 3.1 age :D
Then when I heard that money was going to be reset, I just squandered it all, I must say I never thought that I was able to spend 1 mill in 30 minutes :D
EDIT: meant 3.1 :D
I know that trick to, got to a nice 4 mill because of it in the 3.1 age :D
Then when I heard that money was going to be reset, I just squandered it all, I must say I never thought that I was able to spend 1 mill in 30 minutes :D
EDIT: meant 3.1 :D
/me would like to point out that money didn't exist in 2.1, same with different engines, same with sector 15......... actually, I don't think we had anything except sector 7. :-p
Weeee to off-topic it goes.
Faster....faster....faster....gone
Faster....faster....faster....gone
Hmm... show me one post on this thread that isn't about Vendetta other than yours? The topics at hand might not be the most interesting to you, but they are about playing the game. Indeed, for the most part they are even about player killing and its effect on the community and what you can do about it.
My take on the subject of player killing, is that if it offends you to be killed by another player you would have never been a customer of this game at all. Imagine someone logging on to a game of UT2003 and going 'I just wanted to explore the map! All this newbie killing makes the game unfun! The vets camp the areas with the good weapons and frag me every time I go for one! This game sucks!'. Bah.
My take on the subject of player killing, is that if it offends you to be killed by another player you would have never been a customer of this game at all. Imagine someone logging on to a game of UT2003 and going 'I just wanted to explore the map! All this newbie killing makes the game unfun! The vets camp the areas with the good weapons and frag me every time I go for one! This game sucks!'. Bah.
/me dies laughing at Celebrim!!!!!
I hate to say this, but you totally miss the point.
Vendetta is in the awkward stage of being half-FPS and half-RPG. When you die in UT2K3, you click the mouse button and respawn. Fine, if we were in 2.8, but we're not. You can't just automatically respawn in your Centurion, run over a homing missile powerup, and be good to go. Now, everything is persistant. EVERYTHING! You log off, you come back on at that place. You die, you lose money, only to be replaced by trading or botting. However, botting/trading is getting to be impossible for "unskilled pilots." The helping hand vets used to lend is now clutching a trigger.
Basically, it was accepted that the vets can tangle with each other, while the newbies do the same. Everything stays on your skill level. The first time I experienced a break in this code was Furball's incessant camping of stations. Then Phoenix gave in and would crash bus parties in 7 with Icarus. Come 3.2, Starfreeze started, as well as Sam II. Soon, most of the vet community was ruthlessly hunting those that they could kill. I've seen vets of different colors ignore each other to kill "unskilled pilots" in the same sector.
Basically, Celebrim, you're denying the existance of a problem. Unfortunately, the problem DOES exist. Look at what happened on the Shadowbane servers, why did Ubi revert the game to pre-hack status? All those monsters were killing people in newbie land.
Go read the news panels about newbie sectors:
(3.2.0)
"The universe has been expanded to 13 charted sectors. Each Nation now has 2 sectors, their home sector and an outlying sector intended to become a "newbie zone"."
We now have players that specifically run through those sectors just to kill "newbies." I don't have as much of a problem with Icarus in 14. Heck, it's a hidden sector, you go there, you understand risks. My problem is with those that prevent new players from getting off their feet, so to speak.
Your analogy to UT2K3 would have worked if they could buy back their ship at no cost, and go run down the enemy. Unfortunately, these griefers have millions, and the newbies only have a couple thousand. Not good.
I hate to say this, but you totally miss the point.
Vendetta is in the awkward stage of being half-FPS and half-RPG. When you die in UT2K3, you click the mouse button and respawn. Fine, if we were in 2.8, but we're not. You can't just automatically respawn in your Centurion, run over a homing missile powerup, and be good to go. Now, everything is persistant. EVERYTHING! You log off, you come back on at that place. You die, you lose money, only to be replaced by trading or botting. However, botting/trading is getting to be impossible for "unskilled pilots." The helping hand vets used to lend is now clutching a trigger.
Basically, it was accepted that the vets can tangle with each other, while the newbies do the same. Everything stays on your skill level. The first time I experienced a break in this code was Furball's incessant camping of stations. Then Phoenix gave in and would crash bus parties in 7 with Icarus. Come 3.2, Starfreeze started, as well as Sam II. Soon, most of the vet community was ruthlessly hunting those that they could kill. I've seen vets of different colors ignore each other to kill "unskilled pilots" in the same sector.
Basically, Celebrim, you're denying the existance of a problem. Unfortunately, the problem DOES exist. Look at what happened on the Shadowbane servers, why did Ubi revert the game to pre-hack status? All those monsters were killing people in newbie land.
Go read the news panels about newbie sectors:
(3.2.0)
"The universe has been expanded to 13 charted sectors. Each Nation now has 2 sectors, their home sector and an outlying sector intended to become a "newbie zone"."
We now have players that specifically run through those sectors just to kill "newbies." I don't have as much of a problem with Icarus in 14. Heck, it's a hidden sector, you go there, you understand risks. My problem is with those that prevent new players from getting off their feet, so to speak.
Your analogy to UT2K3 would have worked if they could buy back their ship at no cost, and go run down the enemy. Unfortunately, these griefers have millions, and the newbies only have a couple thousand. Not good.
"When you die in UT2K3, you click the mouse button and respawn."
When you die in Vendetta, you click the mouse button and respawn.
"You can't just automatically respawn in your Centurion, run over a homing missile powerup, and be good to go."
Errr... yes, basically you can. I suppose that buying something in the station is a little harder than going to get the rocket powerup on the other side of the map but not that much.
"Your analogy to UT2K3 would have worked if they could buy back their ship at no cost..."
If its a bus, they can, and in any event the cost of a survivable ship is a fraction of the money you can make in just one successful traderun. Try Vulture + Fast Recharge + Medium Engine + Tachyon + Sunflare = 14,000 cr = pays for itself even with just two cargo on every profitable traderun (and pretty quickly even with normal traderuns), and dang hard to run down if it wants to keep its distance. Actually, given the accessibility and durability of the Prom, I can't see how anyone that wants to run away is dying. Most of the time when newbies die it is because they choose to fight.
"...and go run down the enemy."
Well, if you are up to the challenge, but my experience is more on the lines of 'he who runs away lives to blow your enemies ass away on another day'.
I'm a coward and not afraid to admit it.
"Unfortunately, these griefers have millions, and the newbies only have a couple thousand. Not good."
That in itself is never going to change. If anything it is going to get worse. Right now you can make a million in what, an hour and 15 minutes? Less if you get assistance from a vet on your team. Right now the most powerful ship in the game is probably not going to cost you more than 10 minutes of trading. Right now we don't have skill-point experience system and access to the best equipment is not restricted by a mission structure. In all of 3.2 my character has made less than 3 million credits spending only a 5 or 6 hours trading.
"Basically, Celebrim, you're denying the existance of a problem."
Not exactly. I'm denying it is any different now than it ever was. I'm denying that the problem lies solely with the behavior of the so called griefers and pirates. I'm denying that there are 'victims' in a game, or that somehow some few players 'victim' status requires us to radically straightjacket gameplay in a game that is supposed to have Elite or Privateers open ended play like you want gameplay. I was hunted at regular intervals from the first hour I played by Khral and A$$bandit and other gold vets even though I didn't leave the sector 1 & 4 area for about the first WEEK I was playing (20 hours or more). If anything, its alot easier now than then because cash is so abundent and so are good cash sources.
When we are up around 200 sectors and we have NPC security forces and we are still having problems with 'rampant newbie killing' then maybe I'll reconsider my opinion. In the mean time, use a fast ship with a fast engine, keep your eye open and your battery filled and your fingering hovering above the turbo button. But no matter what happens sooner or latter you are going to have to realize that you are responcible for your own safety.
When you die in Vendetta, you click the mouse button and respawn.
"You can't just automatically respawn in your Centurion, run over a homing missile powerup, and be good to go."
Errr... yes, basically you can. I suppose that buying something in the station is a little harder than going to get the rocket powerup on the other side of the map but not that much.
"Your analogy to UT2K3 would have worked if they could buy back their ship at no cost..."
If its a bus, they can, and in any event the cost of a survivable ship is a fraction of the money you can make in just one successful traderun. Try Vulture + Fast Recharge + Medium Engine + Tachyon + Sunflare = 14,000 cr = pays for itself even with just two cargo on every profitable traderun (and pretty quickly even with normal traderuns), and dang hard to run down if it wants to keep its distance. Actually, given the accessibility and durability of the Prom, I can't see how anyone that wants to run away is dying. Most of the time when newbies die it is because they choose to fight.
"...and go run down the enemy."
Well, if you are up to the challenge, but my experience is more on the lines of 'he who runs away lives to blow your enemies ass away on another day'.
I'm a coward and not afraid to admit it.
"Unfortunately, these griefers have millions, and the newbies only have a couple thousand. Not good."
That in itself is never going to change. If anything it is going to get worse. Right now you can make a million in what, an hour and 15 minutes? Less if you get assistance from a vet on your team. Right now the most powerful ship in the game is probably not going to cost you more than 10 minutes of trading. Right now we don't have skill-point experience system and access to the best equipment is not restricted by a mission structure. In all of 3.2 my character has made less than 3 million credits spending only a 5 or 6 hours trading.
"Basically, Celebrim, you're denying the existance of a problem."
Not exactly. I'm denying it is any different now than it ever was. I'm denying that the problem lies solely with the behavior of the so called griefers and pirates. I'm denying that there are 'victims' in a game, or that somehow some few players 'victim' status requires us to radically straightjacket gameplay in a game that is supposed to have Elite or Privateers open ended play like you want gameplay. I was hunted at regular intervals from the first hour I played by Khral and A$$bandit and other gold vets even though I didn't leave the sector 1 & 4 area for about the first WEEK I was playing (20 hours or more). If anything, its alot easier now than then because cash is so abundent and so are good cash sources.
When we are up around 200 sectors and we have NPC security forces and we are still having problems with 'rampant newbie killing' then maybe I'll reconsider my opinion. In the mean time, use a fast ship with a fast engine, keep your eye open and your battery filled and your fingering hovering above the turbo button. But no matter what happens sooner or latter you are going to have to realize that you are responcible for your own safety.