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Hi
I just wonder what the general public think of ganking and unfair fights "not that i have been a victim to this matter" i just wonder what most ppl think of this matter, and if the majority thinks this is ok or not.
i was monitoring channel 100, and this is a matter that often cause great debates and namecalling ingame.
Random Name
I just wonder what the general public think of ganking and unfair fights "not that i have been a victim to this matter" i just wonder what most ppl think of this matter, and if the majority thinks this is ok or not.
i was monitoring channel 100, and this is a matter that often cause great debates and namecalling ingame.
Random Name
I prefer one on one fights in reasonably equal ships (even though I usually lose), but I'm willing to let others decide how they want to be treated.
If they decide to jump me while I'm in the middle of something (not looking for a fight), I have no qualms about doing it to them in the future. If I didn't get a warning, neither will they.
The list of of those people is pretty short though (only 5).
-Killerfurby
If they decide to jump me while I'm in the middle of something (not looking for a fight), I have no qualms about doing it to them in the future. If I didn't get a warning, neither will they.
The list of of those people is pretty short though (only 5).
-Killerfurby
I think if you're not willing to exploit every advantage and opportunity available to you in a fight that matters, you don't deserve to win it.
Formal duels are a different matter, rules are agreed upon before it starts.
In real life, it sometimes amazes me that the "good guys" ever win a war, because the other guys never fight fair. If you really care about the goal of the batle, I say you don't want the fight to be fair, you want the odds stacked against your enemy. On the other hand, you should always be prepared and expect your opponent to not fight fair.
Formal duels are a different matter, rules are agreed upon before it starts.
In real life, it sometimes amazes me that the "good guys" ever win a war, because the other guys never fight fair. If you really care about the goal of the batle, I say you don't want the fight to be fair, you want the odds stacked against your enemy. On the other hand, you should always be prepared and expect your opponent to not fight fair.
Hm... I don't like ganking when it's done to me, and I think I mostly avoid doing it to others.
As for 'unfair fighting': It is difficult to give an answer to that, since the definition of 'unfair' varies from person to person.
As for 'unfair fighting': It is difficult to give an answer to that, since the definition of 'unfair' varies from person to person.
Exactly my point, toshiro. Who says what's unfair, anyway? The only rules in war are the ones agreed to by the participants, and they are the only ones to enforce those rules. You just have to weigh the value of "honor" and "victory." I know I'm applying this broadly to war in general, but if you think you are on the "right" side of a conflict, you should do whatever you can to win and end that conflict quickly or it will go on or you will lose.
A lot depends on what you are trying to accomplish from the fight.
In Border Patrol and Border Skirmish missions, you are trying to defeat an opposing force, by any means.
A lot of duelers and fighters hang out in Sedina B8, waiting to prove, test, and practice their skill.
There are a lot of reasons to fight, and that creates a lot of styles of fighting, and a lot of rule sets. The same player may gank and use every lame tactic available during a border patrol, and then turn around and expect a fair fight in Sedina. Most players accept this as standard.
I hear people scream unfair all the time, and you have to watch what people do, a lot more than listen to what they say. They will consider something unfair, when they are losing because of it, but then use it, when it's to their advantage. The very best will try to find out what your rule set is, and then treat you by your own ruleset, while the very worst will try to impose a ruleset on you, that is of the greatest advantage to them. Never allow a pirate to set the rules for piracy.
I like the way someone put it one time. "If you act like an unbot, expect to be treated like one", or something along those lines.
In Border Patrol and Border Skirmish missions, you are trying to defeat an opposing force, by any means.
A lot of duelers and fighters hang out in Sedina B8, waiting to prove, test, and practice their skill.
There are a lot of reasons to fight, and that creates a lot of styles of fighting, and a lot of rule sets. The same player may gank and use every lame tactic available during a border patrol, and then turn around and expect a fair fight in Sedina. Most players accept this as standard.
I hear people scream unfair all the time, and you have to watch what people do, a lot more than listen to what they say. They will consider something unfair, when they are losing because of it, but then use it, when it's to their advantage. The very best will try to find out what your rule set is, and then treat you by your own ruleset, while the very worst will try to impose a ruleset on you, that is of the greatest advantage to them. Never allow a pirate to set the rules for piracy.
I like the way someone put it one time. "If you act like an unbot, expect to be treated like one", or something along those lines.
TRS wrote "Never allow a pirate to set the rules for piracy If you act like an unbot, expect to be treated like one"
So what you mean, is that you think its ok to gank a pirate regardless if this pirate is a fair fighter or not.
well what if the pirates say the same thing "we are pirates so we think its allright to gank everyone else, because we are outlaws"
wouldnt that just turn this game into a huge ganking party ?
I had a conversation with a viper pilot the other day, and he said pretty much the same, he sad he never ganked other players but if that other player was a pirate, he had no problem ganking that person.
Now i have many times flown into pirate areas where i met like 3 CLM pirates at ones in H-2 for example, they never ganked me. infact i found them very honoroble fighters, so why is it that pirates is the ones i found most honoroble and fairest among players in this game? kinda feel strange in my opinion
So what you mean, is that you think its ok to gank a pirate regardless if this pirate is a fair fighter or not.
well what if the pirates say the same thing "we are pirates so we think its allright to gank everyone else, because we are outlaws"
wouldnt that just turn this game into a huge ganking party ?
I had a conversation with a viper pilot the other day, and he said pretty much the same, he sad he never ganked other players but if that other player was a pirate, he had no problem ganking that person.
Now i have many times flown into pirate areas where i met like 3 CLM pirates at ones in H-2 for example, they never ganked me. infact i found them very honoroble fighters, so why is it that pirates is the ones i found most honoroble and fairest among players in this game? kinda feel strange in my opinion
That is because the players aren't machines that have pre-set parameters associated with their 'labels', so to say, but because there's real persons on the other end of the line. There are more unfair fighters in every group, at least compared to the rest, and there are more fair ones.
The problem I see with Prof. Chaos' stance on fights, namely that the end justifies the means is that you may not, ever, take the moral high ground on discussions about combat, without being hypocritical.
However, since this is a game, maybe too serious analyses of the topic are the wrong approach.
The problem I see with Prof. Chaos' stance on fights, namely that the end justifies the means is that you may not, ever, take the moral high ground on discussions about combat, without being hypocritical.
However, since this is a game, maybe too serious analyses of the topic are the wrong approach.
kunil, you find the pirates in this game to be honorable beacuse A) this game has an astoundingly nice and reasonable player base and B) the pirate characters in this game are played by people mostly just looking for non-duel duels without serious consequences for their players; the pirates in this game are not people roleplaying @$$-hoes but calling themselves pirates.
Also, no one would ever pay off (almost always the best source of income for pirates) CLM if it was widely known for employing @$$-hoe pierats. "If you act like an unbot, expect to be treated like one." is very appropriate and applicable around here.
As far as "unfair fights" involving some pair of ships goes, my opinion is that they don't exist; one party should not have left the station with their current setup or should have run away, and either way the losing party should simply accept that they lost and either try a different setup or a different route.
With respect to ganking, I am rather ambivalent on the issue... I think I am mostly with TRS on it though. Each person has their own rules set and good players learn and play by yours while poor players try to make you play by theirs. I must say though, that if one usually wins duel-setting fights, one should expect people to start grouping against you since it is their only viable option for possible victory - and one should not complain when that happens.
However, with too much ganking this game would degenerate into FPS EVE. As Toshiro pointed out, this is *A GAME*!! As such, no one should be so into it that the ends ever justify the means -- victory should never be what defines "fun" in a game. Therefore, I happily discourage ganking and treating players in ways that THEY feel are unfair whenever possible, regardless of how unreasonable you think they are being.
Also, no one would ever pay off (almost always the best source of income for pirates) CLM if it was widely known for employing @$$-hoe pierats. "If you act like an unbot, expect to be treated like one." is very appropriate and applicable around here.
As far as "unfair fights" involving some pair of ships goes, my opinion is that they don't exist; one party should not have left the station with their current setup or should have run away, and either way the losing party should simply accept that they lost and either try a different setup or a different route.
With respect to ganking, I am rather ambivalent on the issue... I think I am mostly with TRS on it though. Each person has their own rules set and good players learn and play by yours while poor players try to make you play by theirs. I must say though, that if one usually wins duel-setting fights, one should expect people to start grouping against you since it is their only viable option for possible victory - and one should not complain when that happens.
However, with too much ganking this game would degenerate into FPS EVE. As Toshiro pointed out, this is *A GAME*!! As such, no one should be so into it that the ends ever justify the means -- victory should never be what defines "fun" in a game. Therefore, I happily discourage ganking and treating players in ways that THEY feel are unfair whenever possible, regardless of how unreasonable you think they are being.
as a botter/trader, ganking is A-O-K with me. it happens when i go botting, and i am all for it when a pirate demands payment for safe passage for our entire guild.
as for the complaining part of it? i paid for my account, i get to play the way i want to. if genka pays just to annoy ppl in the chat room, i pay to shoot back and expect my guild mates to do the same.
"unfair fighting" is in the eye of the beholder, the person saying it, is also known as "a sore loser". it's a term only used by the loser of a battle, and is commonly used due to anger/emotion. here's a hint. LIFE ISNT FAIR, why should this game be any different?
as for the complaining part of it? i paid for my account, i get to play the way i want to. if genka pays just to annoy ppl in the chat room, i pay to shoot back and expect my guild mates to do the same.
"unfair fighting" is in the eye of the beholder, the person saying it, is also known as "a sore loser". it's a term only used by the loser of a battle, and is commonly used due to anger/emotion. here's a hint. LIFE ISNT FAIR, why should this game be any different?
A game should be at least somewhat different because, in case you hadn't noticed, LIFE ISN'T FUN EITHER; that is why I play games at least.
This game is not life, but if you're looking for fairness, I suggest you go look somewhere else.
This being a game, each of my charas has different attitudes towards ganking and unfair fighting, and act accordingly.
This being a game, each of my charas has different attitudes towards ganking and unfair fighting, and act accordingly.
i wasnt looking for fairness, i was asking about ppl opinion on the matter, so that i know what to expect.
as many have said, it depends on the context.
someone who has a tendency to run away will get no sympathy from me whatsoever. i'll gank him, rocket spam him, swarm him, cheap tactic him to death. anything to nail the runner out.
i'll do so in border patroll, border skirmish and even non-mission special events (say, nation war type of thing).
on other occasions, i've seen pilots defend themselves regardless of the odds being against them. this could be one i've known to be a runner. when i'm fast enough to make that assessment, i will break away from the fight so not to unfairly gank the pilot and give him a chance. i usually sector-chat that i'm breaking away in such cases.
someone who has a tendency to run away will get no sympathy from me whatsoever. i'll gank him, rocket spam him, swarm him, cheap tactic him to death. anything to nail the runner out.
i'll do so in border patroll, border skirmish and even non-mission special events (say, nation war type of thing).
on other occasions, i've seen pilots defend themselves regardless of the odds being against them. this could be one i've known to be a runner. when i'm fast enough to make that assessment, i will break away from the fight so not to unfairly gank the pilot and give him a chance. i usually sector-chat that i'm breaking away in such cases.
Actually, "ganking" is a poor word. I prefer to call it "multis".
It's fine by my books. Nothing turns the adrenaline on like a good against-the-odds-you-vs-many fight.
I mean, how long do you want to fight 1-vs-1? It gets old.
It's fine by my books. Nothing turns the adrenaline on like a good against-the-odds-you-vs-many fight.
I mean, how long do you want to fight 1-vs-1? It gets old.
Aye, the thing to remember is this is a game, the idea being to have fun. MOST (/me looks at shape) people don't enjoy being ganked. There are those of us who can handle the situation and look on it as a challenge. I for one find it a lot of fun to try and beat the odds. But there's no reason to gank a player that could have just as easily been beaten in a 1 on 1, that's just overkill and makes it a lot less fun for the person being ganked, and IMHO for the people ganking as well. Good competition is fun for me, if I wanted the easiest kill I'd go shoot bots.
That being said, while in grey space I always hail before I attack a target. If the person I'm attacking becomes engaged by a second person during the fight, I usually back off. The only exceptions being if the person in question is, like upper case said, a known runner or ganker himself. Pirates, from my experiences, almost always enjoy 1 on 1's unless they're attacking a trader who has refused to pay the "toll". In which case, I consider it natural to use a gank as a running pilot is damn near impossible to destroy if he's in a decent ship and has a clue about what he's doing.
In Deneb, the BP and BS battles provide a different situation. This is an all out war. In group combat, ganking becomes an effective tactic and is employed by all sides. There's nothing wrong with this, it's just the nature of fighting in large battles. You can't expect only one person of the six others to be on you at a time, that's unrealistic. Especially if you're a decent pilot, you should expect to be ganked and prepare for it. Keep some wingmen around to cover you.
In summary, gank at your own discretion. Ganking is widely accepted in Deneb and all out war scenarios, so don't complain if it happens to you there. It's usually better in grey space not to gank unless in group combat or other specific circumstances which may warrant a gank occur (roleplaying for instance or other circumstances mentioned above). If you want to make that kind of reputation for yourself though for RP purposes, then have at it. Hail before you attack if you'd like the same done to you. If not, that's fine. But don't whine about people ganking or using underhanded tactics against you in turn. You really do get what you put in, in Vendetta. Of course, if you chose to gank often and use tactics that are frowned upon, don't expect people to like you very much.
All that being said, no matter where you are, you should always be aware of your surroundings. In grey, if you get ambushed and ganked, you have only yourself to blame. Don't bother complaining to the ganking party, if you're in grey space they're within their rights (or lack of rights =)). Just learn from your mistakes and get them next time.
That being said, while in grey space I always hail before I attack a target. If the person I'm attacking becomes engaged by a second person during the fight, I usually back off. The only exceptions being if the person in question is, like upper case said, a known runner or ganker himself. Pirates, from my experiences, almost always enjoy 1 on 1's unless they're attacking a trader who has refused to pay the "toll". In which case, I consider it natural to use a gank as a running pilot is damn near impossible to destroy if he's in a decent ship and has a clue about what he's doing.
In Deneb, the BP and BS battles provide a different situation. This is an all out war. In group combat, ganking becomes an effective tactic and is employed by all sides. There's nothing wrong with this, it's just the nature of fighting in large battles. You can't expect only one person of the six others to be on you at a time, that's unrealistic. Especially if you're a decent pilot, you should expect to be ganked and prepare for it. Keep some wingmen around to cover you.
In summary, gank at your own discretion. Ganking is widely accepted in Deneb and all out war scenarios, so don't complain if it happens to you there. It's usually better in grey space not to gank unless in group combat or other specific circumstances which may warrant a gank occur (roleplaying for instance or other circumstances mentioned above). If you want to make that kind of reputation for yourself though for RP purposes, then have at it. Hail before you attack if you'd like the same done to you. If not, that's fine. But don't whine about people ganking or using underhanded tactics against you in turn. You really do get what you put in, in Vendetta. Of course, if you chose to gank often and use tactics that are frowned upon, don't expect people to like you very much.
All that being said, no matter where you are, you should always be aware of your surroundings. In grey, if you get ambushed and ganked, you have only yourself to blame. Don't bother complaining to the ganking party, if you're in grey space they're within their rights (or lack of rights =)). Just learn from your mistakes and get them next time.
My personal system as a non-pirate is governed by the followng rules. "Outlaw" refers to someone who is a pirate or engages in dishonorable activities according to these rules.
1.) I never shoot at anyone who is not an outlaw without them clearly agreeing to fight me and then hailing them.
2.) When attacking an outlaw, I always hail before each battle. A new battle begins everytime one of us dies, jumps, continues from an interupted fight, or returns to a station. A know outlaw does not have to agree to fight but I must hail.
3.) I always fight people and outlaws 1 on 1 unless otherwise discussed and agreed upon. Even known outlaws take a break and sometimes look for a fair 1 on 1 fight to test their skills. The only exception to this rule is discussed next, in rule 4.
4.) Outlaws (or any players) give up their right to a 1 on 1 fight if I witness them or receive confirmed reports that they are engaging in an unlawful activity. For instance, if I see a known pirate destroy poor innocent BillyNeWb89, he gives up his right to a 1 on 1 fight. I will not hesitate to work with other players to destroy the pirate. The outlaw retains his "gankable" status until one of us logs off. This rule is frequently debated but it makes perfect sense. I stand by this rule firmly.
5.) If I am engaging in a 1 on 1 fight (a fight other than what was discussed in rule 4), and someone interupts and begins attacking my opponent, I will cease fire and hold my distance. The fight for me is over and I am at no fault. I can't account for other people's actions who interupt my 1 on 1 fights. This is often a problem when fighting pirates and outlaws, as they have many enemies who simply want them dead.
1.) I never shoot at anyone who is not an outlaw without them clearly agreeing to fight me and then hailing them.
2.) When attacking an outlaw, I always hail before each battle. A new battle begins everytime one of us dies, jumps, continues from an interupted fight, or returns to a station. A know outlaw does not have to agree to fight but I must hail.
3.) I always fight people and outlaws 1 on 1 unless otherwise discussed and agreed upon. Even known outlaws take a break and sometimes look for a fair 1 on 1 fight to test their skills. The only exception to this rule is discussed next, in rule 4.
4.) Outlaws (or any players) give up their right to a 1 on 1 fight if I witness them or receive confirmed reports that they are engaging in an unlawful activity. For instance, if I see a known pirate destroy poor innocent BillyNeWb89, he gives up his right to a 1 on 1 fight. I will not hesitate to work with other players to destroy the pirate. The outlaw retains his "gankable" status until one of us logs off. This rule is frequently debated but it makes perfect sense. I stand by this rule firmly.
5.) If I am engaging in a 1 on 1 fight (a fight other than what was discussed in rule 4), and someone interupts and begins attacking my opponent, I will cease fire and hold my distance. The fight for me is over and I am at no fault. I can't account for other people's actions who interupt my 1 on 1 fights. This is often a problem when fighting pirates and outlaws, as they have many enemies who simply want them dead.
There's a war on.
I'm okay with whatever tactics are used, so long as they don't exploit broken game mechanics. It really gets the adrenalin pumping if I can do some damage and / or escape with my life in an unbalanced fight. If I'm not in the mood I'll just switch to another character for a bit.
I know some will disagree, saying they should be able to do whatever they want because they pay to play - but why not just play a nice single-player game where there's no real danger and everything follows set rules? I play multiplayer games for the unpredictability of live opponents, the danger, and the comraderie.
I agree that formal duels are another matter entirely.
I'm okay with whatever tactics are used, so long as they don't exploit broken game mechanics. It really gets the adrenalin pumping if I can do some damage and / or escape with my life in an unbalanced fight. If I'm not in the mood I'll just switch to another character for a bit.
I know some will disagree, saying they should be able to do whatever they want because they pay to play - but why not just play a nice single-player game where there's no real danger and everything follows set rules? I play multiplayer games for the unpredictability of live opponents, the danger, and the comraderie.
I agree that formal duels are another matter entirely.
I love group on group Free for all fights!
If I have assembled a group however I usually announce my claim on the sector in global chat.
Anyone passing through their fate is there own fault!
When not in a group i'll usually hail/warning shot/ram them
to get their attention before the onslaught
If I have assembled a group however I usually announce my claim on the sector in global chat.
Anyone passing through their fate is there own fault!
When not in a group i'll usually hail/warning shot/ram them
to get their attention before the onslaught
I think I was misunderstood as having said that the end always justifies the means. I actually agree with almost everyone in this thread, especially LostCommander's comment:
"As far as "unfair fights" involving some pair of ships goes, my opinion is that they don't exist; one party should not have left the station with their current setup or should have run away, and either way the losing party should simply accept that they lost and either try a different setup or a different route."
You have to decide how important your goal is. If your goal is to be an honorable fighter, then fight honorably. If you just want a fun fight just for the sake of a fight, then duel, or hail someone first, but don't get upset if other people don't. If there's, say, a vital piece of cargo that will help your side in nation war, then by all means gather all the force you can muster against that one target. If you're carrying such valuable cargo and you didn't hire enough escorts to defend yourself, then that's what happens when you don't prepare. The only thing that is completely out under any circumstances, is exploiting bugs. If you don't like how another player fights, find other people who feel similarly and do something about it.
Speak softly and carry a big stick.
"As far as "unfair fights" involving some pair of ships goes, my opinion is that they don't exist; one party should not have left the station with their current setup or should have run away, and either way the losing party should simply accept that they lost and either try a different setup or a different route."
You have to decide how important your goal is. If your goal is to be an honorable fighter, then fight honorably. If you just want a fun fight just for the sake of a fight, then duel, or hail someone first, but don't get upset if other people don't. If there's, say, a vital piece of cargo that will help your side in nation war, then by all means gather all the force you can muster against that one target. If you're carrying such valuable cargo and you didn't hire enough escorts to defend yourself, then that's what happens when you don't prepare. The only thing that is completely out under any circumstances, is exploiting bugs. If you don't like how another player fights, find other people who feel similarly and do something about it.
Speak softly and carry a big stick.