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Like Apex, I am a player who uses nothing but Physics mode. And even though I suck pretty badly at space combat, some observations I have made are independent of actual flying skill, I think.
One of them is this:
Switching modes is, for a player who isn't naturally gifted at VO combat, and plays rather less often than more so, a break in flying style will rather help your opponent than yourself, unless you started switching right from the beginning (I switched once. From FA to Physics).
If you plan to take advantage of switching between FA and Physics, you should be able to invest time into training the switching process, so that it becomes as natural to you as firing a neut Mk II.
One of them is this:
Switching modes is, for a player who isn't naturally gifted at VO combat, and plays rather less often than more so, a break in flying style will rather help your opponent than yourself, unless you started switching right from the beginning (I switched once. From FA to Physics).
If you plan to take advantage of switching between FA and Physics, you should be able to invest time into training the switching process, so that it becomes as natural to you as firing a neut Mk II.
Same here. I really don't like FA, I can do well enough without it.
Personally, I have almost no skill in light ships, but I can do fairly well with agresso/prom mk2.
If anyone would like to give Centaurs a try, I can give some basic tips:
#1: Thin front is your big friend. Although a big target overall, Taur is kinda thin, so you can use Vult-like tactics when dodging. But its big ass eats any kind of weapons nicely, so if you let anyone get past you, you're in BIG trouble.
#2: Big disadvantage of any Taur is that it could easily be thrown into rotation when hit with rockets from up or down. Side hits don't hurt as bad, so keep that in mind.
#3: Taurs' spin torque makes them really agile large birds, so if you already got some skill, even an SCP isn't cheap to ya. You can simply turn faster :)
#4: Weapon setups: agt + sun + jack (my fav) | mposi + sun + jack | 2 mposis + sun | 2 plasmadevs + sun | and much more. 2 large and 1 small slots give you a nice bunch of combinations.
EOT from a rusty council member of CORE, Mike-L.
Personally, I have almost no skill in light ships, but I can do fairly well with agresso/prom mk2.
If anyone would like to give Centaurs a try, I can give some basic tips:
#1: Thin front is your big friend. Although a big target overall, Taur is kinda thin, so you can use Vult-like tactics when dodging. But its big ass eats any kind of weapons nicely, so if you let anyone get past you, you're in BIG trouble.
#2: Big disadvantage of any Taur is that it could easily be thrown into rotation when hit with rockets from up or down. Side hits don't hurt as bad, so keep that in mind.
#3: Taurs' spin torque makes them really agile large birds, so if you already got some skill, even an SCP isn't cheap to ya. You can simply turn faster :)
#4: Weapon setups: agt + sun + jack (my fav) | mposi + sun + jack | 2 mposis + sun | 2 plasmadevs + sun | and much more. 2 large and 1 small slots give you a nice bunch of combinations.
EOT from a rusty council member of CORE, Mike-L.
Just to reiterate the basic uses of FA vs Non-FA.
FA is used primarily for attacking. It is easier to land shots with FA on than off.
FA off is used primarily for defense. It is much, much easier to dodge with FA off.
So its not really about being naturally gifted. If you keep the FA switch somewhere easily accesable, and keep those two simple rules in mind, it comes pretty quickly. Even if you only use FA when you are 100 percent sure that your opponent is temporarily out of position, just to go in and get a few quick hits. Then back to you FA off and slide away.
FA is used primarily for attacking. It is easier to land shots with FA on than off.
FA off is used primarily for defense. It is much, much easier to dodge with FA off.
So its not really about being naturally gifted. If you keep the FA switch somewhere easily accesable, and keep those two simple rules in mind, it comes pretty quickly. Even if you only use FA when you are 100 percent sure that your opponent is temporarily out of position, just to go in and get a few quick hits. Then back to you FA off and slide away.
Like some in this thread, I only use physics mode, because I can controll the distance between myself and the other ship very easily, I dodge like a greased fish, and my aim isn't good enough to merit a FA switch.
Something to note about neut fighting FA players:
If I'm fighting someone really good, where I'm basically stalling for time until I see them make a mistake (I did this in a duel with BUNNY a couple days ago, which I lost, partially on grounds of 8 MB VRAM T_T), I find that barrel-roll backrolling while strafing on 2 axis and pouring fire towards them makes you very, very hard to hit with neuts. Mix in some fancy fingerwork if the shots start getting too close. If you get too far away, just acclerate until you're in range and repeat.
Once they start boosting at you (And they will, eventually), try and take advatage of it, by strafing them down as they approach. If your aim sucks too much even for that (me!), then you must take advantage of the fact they are using FA by getting in really really close. Roll around their ship, it will get them momentarily disoriented, because you can move in physics, and they are, however temporarily, bound by FA. At this time, you have an advantage, but it will disappear fast. Get in shots, and return to your barrel-rolling 2-axis back strafing.
My tactic for neut-fighting people much better than me.
Only for those with strong fingers. ;)
Something to note about neut fighting FA players:
If I'm fighting someone really good, where I'm basically stalling for time until I see them make a mistake (I did this in a duel with BUNNY a couple days ago, which I lost, partially on grounds of 8 MB VRAM T_T), I find that barrel-roll backrolling while strafing on 2 axis and pouring fire towards them makes you very, very hard to hit with neuts. Mix in some fancy fingerwork if the shots start getting too close. If you get too far away, just acclerate until you're in range and repeat.
Once they start boosting at you (And they will, eventually), try and take advatage of it, by strafing them down as they approach. If your aim sucks too much even for that (me!), then you must take advantage of the fact they are using FA by getting in really really close. Roll around their ship, it will get them momentarily disoriented, because you can move in physics, and they are, however temporarily, bound by FA. At this time, you have an advantage, but it will disappear fast. Get in shots, and return to your barrel-rolling 2-axis back strafing.
My tactic for neut-fighting people much better than me.
Only for those with strong fingers. ;)
Hmm, what to suggest?
I am more of an energy toting light fighter than anything, so this advice pertains to that style of fighting.
Personally I only fight in physics mode, unless my opponent is backing away continuously then I will switch to FA, but be ready to turn FA off quickly if they suddenly start charging at you or you could be caught in a storm of rockets or AGT fire etc.
Saying that, jousting (both players with FA on) can be a fun fight :)
Something that you will learn through experience is the possible loadouts that people use in certain ships. For example, m'auds are a common triflare platform, so keep your distance (around 150 to 200m) until you have seen all three weapons fired.
It is fairly difficult to know what distance to suggest you keep from your opponent. When you are in quite close (less than 50m), it is easier to hit, but also be hit. 50 to 100m is a reasonable distance for the faster moving energy weapons, it is a fair compromise between being able to dodge easily (I'll come to that in a bit) and being able to hit your opponent. 100m to 200m could be considered breathing space, because it is harder to hit, but much easier to dodge. Anything over 200m and the fight can, and probably will, drag on for a long time. Now if you are facing an opponent with rockets you need to increase your distance to give you dodging space.
Some good advice I have seen posted here is the conservation of your powercell levels. Try not to get below 50% unless you are really sure about your shots hitting, then you can fire until you are empty :) You often see fights where the players will empty their powercells, then back off until recharged and empty their powercells again, ad infinitum, until someone dies. If I am fighting someone like that, I wait until they are recharging, then boost in and shoot. This is ok if you have a high percentage of armour left because even if they do shoot immediately and hit you they are likely to only have very limited shooting capabilities, whereas you have a full charge. Needless to say, you should still be ready to stop boosting and dodge if the situation calls for it, don't just boost in blindly.
Talking of powercells, nobody has mentioned which ones to use... I will assume you have access to the Fast charge and the Heavy (the Ultra charge is a good powercell to use when you get 40 mentor points to be able to purchase them). The good thing about a Heavy cell is the amount of shooting you can do from a full charge, HOWEVER if you don't keep an eye on your powerlevel then it takes a long time to recharge. Fast charge powercells are quite good in combat because of the faster recharge rate. Although you get less shots from a full charge, especially with something like AAPs (Axia Accelerated Positrons if you didn't know), then it doesn't take too long before you can start shooting again.
Aiming. I learned to hit opponents in an online game like this playing MechWarrior 3, which has a targetting reticle, but no autoaim, and no consideration for lag, so it was far more important to 'feel' where your shots should go. Autoaim in VO is good when you are starting out, because you only need to be nearly right to be close to hitting your opponent, however it can also be a bad thing if you are fighting a player well versed in dodging. It doesn't allow you to lead your target (shoot ahead of the reticle) by a small amount which can be necessary at times. Mastering aiming with autoaim off is an important part of fighting.
Something else you need is positonal awareness, which I will try and cover with dodging and flight patterns next. You will also find that you can use strafe to help get your reticle lined up with your target.
Dodging and flight patterns are probably the most important part of fighting techniques. If you get them wrong, you are either particles, or unable to hit anything :( The biggest mistake I see inexperienced players making is to go from one strafe direction to exactly the opposite direction. This makes you a sitting duck for a small amount of time, as you actually slow down and stop moving before moving in the required direction. If you are strafing left, for example, don't go straight to strafing right, use either the up or down strafes first, for maybe half a second. Another way to do it is to use roll. Whilst strafing left, roll right, then strafe right whilst rolling left, then release the roll and you will have moved 'up' and never have actually been stationary, plus the roll makes you less predictable, though don't rely on rolling, a good player can counteract it easily enough.
NEVER hold your direction for too long, it allows your opponent to get a good bead on you and likely get a good hit. In small ships you only need to change your direction by a small amount to dodge effectively, smaller movements also make it easier for you to keep your target.
Saying that, an effective way to dodge rockets is to strafe away from them, whilst also backing up, and keeping your nose pointed at them. That is the fastest way to put as much distance between the rockets and you as possible. You will learn what a safe distance is to just strafe away rather than use this method. BEWARE though, someone using rockets and energy combined, will use the rocket to channel you into their energy, or visa versa, use their energy to force you into strafing away, and fire a rocket right where you are going.
Shape already said this, but I am going to go over it again in slightly more detail. Watch where your opponent is pointing! Use the 3D targetting box, it makes it much easier to see where they are facing. The way they are facing is the way they are going to shoot, so if you are moving away from where they are pointing, they will never hit you. When you come up against someone using rails, that is probably the best way to stop them from even hitting you, yet alone getting a good hit on you. A quad rail hornet can one hit kill a centurion or vulture, even an Atlas if they have advanced rails.
You shouldn't just concentrate on their direction, but also on the fire they send at you, obviously. In something like a Vulture, it is possible to fly through their fire when you get competent enough, and dodging an AGT at 30 to 50m becomes relatively easy when you remember to keep changing your direction, the AGT has good autoaim, but it doesn't track fast enough to follow you when you are so close.
Whilst keeping your flight pattern unpredictable, you should try and find patterns in your opponents moves. Most players seem to have a specific sequence of key strokes they use during a fight, and if you can recognise that pattern and start to predict it, you can lay your shots right where they will be.
When you find that you can dodge, and keep your target in your aiming reticle without having to think about it, then you can start to look for ways to get around your opponent to make it easier to hit them. A face on profile is normally smaller than a lower or upper one, the sides aren't always better, but if you are at the side of somene, they aren't shooting at you, so you have time to take better aim until they line up again. As you get more experienced you will find yourself able to completely fox less competent oponents and get behind them, whether you take advantage of that, or just smile to yourself and watch them wiggle all over the place trying to find you, is up to you. Myself, I may send one shot at them to let them know I have them dead to rights, but normally I wait until they have sorted themselves out, then continue. I somehow feel that is the best thing to do. If you manage to do it to a much more competent player than you, then take FULL advantage of it :)
Hmm, well that's enough information for you to be going on with, I think.
The rest of it you will learn through practise, practise, practise. :)
I am more of an energy toting light fighter than anything, so this advice pertains to that style of fighting.
Personally I only fight in physics mode, unless my opponent is backing away continuously then I will switch to FA, but be ready to turn FA off quickly if they suddenly start charging at you or you could be caught in a storm of rockets or AGT fire etc.
Saying that, jousting (both players with FA on) can be a fun fight :)
Something that you will learn through experience is the possible loadouts that people use in certain ships. For example, m'auds are a common triflare platform, so keep your distance (around 150 to 200m) until you have seen all three weapons fired.
It is fairly difficult to know what distance to suggest you keep from your opponent. When you are in quite close (less than 50m), it is easier to hit, but also be hit. 50 to 100m is a reasonable distance for the faster moving energy weapons, it is a fair compromise between being able to dodge easily (I'll come to that in a bit) and being able to hit your opponent. 100m to 200m could be considered breathing space, because it is harder to hit, but much easier to dodge. Anything over 200m and the fight can, and probably will, drag on for a long time. Now if you are facing an opponent with rockets you need to increase your distance to give you dodging space.
Some good advice I have seen posted here is the conservation of your powercell levels. Try not to get below 50% unless you are really sure about your shots hitting, then you can fire until you are empty :) You often see fights where the players will empty their powercells, then back off until recharged and empty their powercells again, ad infinitum, until someone dies. If I am fighting someone like that, I wait until they are recharging, then boost in and shoot. This is ok if you have a high percentage of armour left because even if they do shoot immediately and hit you they are likely to only have very limited shooting capabilities, whereas you have a full charge. Needless to say, you should still be ready to stop boosting and dodge if the situation calls for it, don't just boost in blindly.
Talking of powercells, nobody has mentioned which ones to use... I will assume you have access to the Fast charge and the Heavy (the Ultra charge is a good powercell to use when you get 40 mentor points to be able to purchase them). The good thing about a Heavy cell is the amount of shooting you can do from a full charge, HOWEVER if you don't keep an eye on your powerlevel then it takes a long time to recharge. Fast charge powercells are quite good in combat because of the faster recharge rate. Although you get less shots from a full charge, especially with something like AAPs (Axia Accelerated Positrons if you didn't know), then it doesn't take too long before you can start shooting again.
Aiming. I learned to hit opponents in an online game like this playing MechWarrior 3, which has a targetting reticle, but no autoaim, and no consideration for lag, so it was far more important to 'feel' where your shots should go. Autoaim in VO is good when you are starting out, because you only need to be nearly right to be close to hitting your opponent, however it can also be a bad thing if you are fighting a player well versed in dodging. It doesn't allow you to lead your target (shoot ahead of the reticle) by a small amount which can be necessary at times. Mastering aiming with autoaim off is an important part of fighting.
Something else you need is positonal awareness, which I will try and cover with dodging and flight patterns next. You will also find that you can use strafe to help get your reticle lined up with your target.
Dodging and flight patterns are probably the most important part of fighting techniques. If you get them wrong, you are either particles, or unable to hit anything :( The biggest mistake I see inexperienced players making is to go from one strafe direction to exactly the opposite direction. This makes you a sitting duck for a small amount of time, as you actually slow down and stop moving before moving in the required direction. If you are strafing left, for example, don't go straight to strafing right, use either the up or down strafes first, for maybe half a second. Another way to do it is to use roll. Whilst strafing left, roll right, then strafe right whilst rolling left, then release the roll and you will have moved 'up' and never have actually been stationary, plus the roll makes you less predictable, though don't rely on rolling, a good player can counteract it easily enough.
NEVER hold your direction for too long, it allows your opponent to get a good bead on you and likely get a good hit. In small ships you only need to change your direction by a small amount to dodge effectively, smaller movements also make it easier for you to keep your target.
Saying that, an effective way to dodge rockets is to strafe away from them, whilst also backing up, and keeping your nose pointed at them. That is the fastest way to put as much distance between the rockets and you as possible. You will learn what a safe distance is to just strafe away rather than use this method. BEWARE though, someone using rockets and energy combined, will use the rocket to channel you into their energy, or visa versa, use their energy to force you into strafing away, and fire a rocket right where you are going.
Shape already said this, but I am going to go over it again in slightly more detail. Watch where your opponent is pointing! Use the 3D targetting box, it makes it much easier to see where they are facing. The way they are facing is the way they are going to shoot, so if you are moving away from where they are pointing, they will never hit you. When you come up against someone using rails, that is probably the best way to stop them from even hitting you, yet alone getting a good hit on you. A quad rail hornet can one hit kill a centurion or vulture, even an Atlas if they have advanced rails.
You shouldn't just concentrate on their direction, but also on the fire they send at you, obviously. In something like a Vulture, it is possible to fly through their fire when you get competent enough, and dodging an AGT at 30 to 50m becomes relatively easy when you remember to keep changing your direction, the AGT has good autoaim, but it doesn't track fast enough to follow you when you are so close.
Whilst keeping your flight pattern unpredictable, you should try and find patterns in your opponents moves. Most players seem to have a specific sequence of key strokes they use during a fight, and if you can recognise that pattern and start to predict it, you can lay your shots right where they will be.
When you find that you can dodge, and keep your target in your aiming reticle without having to think about it, then you can start to look for ways to get around your opponent to make it easier to hit them. A face on profile is normally smaller than a lower or upper one, the sides aren't always better, but if you are at the side of somene, they aren't shooting at you, so you have time to take better aim until they line up again. As you get more experienced you will find yourself able to completely fox less competent oponents and get behind them, whether you take advantage of that, or just smile to yourself and watch them wiggle all over the place trying to find you, is up to you. Myself, I may send one shot at them to let them know I have them dead to rights, but normally I wait until they have sorted themselves out, then continue. I somehow feel that is the best thing to do. If you manage to do it to a much more competent player than you, then take FULL advantage of it :)
Hmm, well that's enough information for you to be going on with, I think.
The rest of it you will learn through practise, practise, practise. :)
DAMN, did I really just type all that out?
In response to Retsmash:
This is what's known as purely defensive fighting. It's not a bad Idea when you're being ganked my multiple people. However, when fighting a single player who's familiar with that technique, you may notice that you'll get nowhere with the fight. If the player identifies your defensive dodging, instead of pursuing you (what you want him to do), he may just stop in place and wait for you to either go miles away and practically forfeit, or for you to pursue, and get into his playing ground.
This is what I do when i'm fighting a defensive fighter, Let them be. I stop in place and wait for them to come to me, off of their gaurd.
pure defense is just that. It can work, but you might not kill anything while doing it.
I sucked at aiming for a while, and I found that the best way to learn how to aim was to get REALLY aggressive with my opponent. I was always getting in their face and seeing what kind of shots I could get in while trying to avoid incomming fire.
If I lost, it's because I was outplayed, and I needed to continue practicing aggressive dodging or aiming. Either way, you may find that aggressive fighting will improve your ability to pick up on subtle movements, and twitch-reaction aiming. Dodging is also alot more difficult at close range, but if you can sucessfully dodge most fire at 100m, you're a ghost. practice practice.
This is what's known as purely defensive fighting. It's not a bad Idea when you're being ganked my multiple people. However, when fighting a single player who's familiar with that technique, you may notice that you'll get nowhere with the fight. If the player identifies your defensive dodging, instead of pursuing you (what you want him to do), he may just stop in place and wait for you to either go miles away and practically forfeit, or for you to pursue, and get into his playing ground.
This is what I do when i'm fighting a defensive fighter, Let them be. I stop in place and wait for them to come to me, off of their gaurd.
pure defense is just that. It can work, but you might not kill anything while doing it.
I sucked at aiming for a while, and I found that the best way to learn how to aim was to get REALLY aggressive with my opponent. I was always getting in their face and seeing what kind of shots I could get in while trying to avoid incomming fire.
If I lost, it's because I was outplayed, and I needed to continue practicing aggressive dodging or aiming. Either way, you may find that aggressive fighting will improve your ability to pick up on subtle movements, and twitch-reaction aiming. Dodging is also alot more difficult at close range, but if you can sucessfully dodge most fire at 100m, you're a ghost. practice practice.
/me rubs his eyes to make sure he saw Apex post something.
Hunh, it IS him!
Hunh, it IS him!
*hands Lebermac a fifth of Tequila and a credit chip*
You saw nothing.
You saw nothing.