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"For ships with very good spin torque, the rolling strafe is ok, otherwise try the alternating strafe."
Even the behemoth (empty) has sufficient spin torque to utilize the rolling strafe, so that's not really an issue... It's all in how you use it.
On the subject of weight: get in the habit of checking the weight of the weapons you're using when picking them out; lighter weapons are better, especially on a light fighter.
2 Neutron II blasters (600kg each) on a centurion adds 1200kg to the ship's weight - that's a lot, considering the IBG cent is only 3000kg to begin with (a mass increase of 40%, subsequently lowering the thrust:mass ratio). Such a great mass increase will lower the ship's performance significantly. On the other hand, Phased Blasters are exceptionally light (100kg each for normal varients, 150kg for the TPG and Orion enhanced varients) and will enhance the performance of your ship.
One happy medium that a lot of players like to use is the Neutron MKIII or Law Neut, which does a lot more damage and weighs 400kg each. I don't recommend them for beginning players though because of their high energy consumption and difficulty in aiming.
The "Best" fighters with an L-port are:
Warthog (MKIV or [UIT]Territorial Defender) (1L, 1S)
[Serco]Prometheus (MKIII or SkyCommand) (1L, 2S)
Wraith ([Axia]Axia Guardian) (1L, 2S)*
Centaur (MKIII or [Tunguska]Agresso) (2L, 1S)
Atlas ([TPG]TPG Type-X) (1L, 1S)
*The wraith is a very good and balanced beginner ship, and the MKII and MKIII varients are generally decent in combat against bots as well, but the Axia Guardian Wraith is better (and sometimes called the 'miniprom').
The SkyCommand Prometheus is beyond any doubt the best L-port ship (unless you need 2 of them, in which case you use a Centaur) due to its massive armor and the fact that it handles like a light fighter.
Here's a workable tactic for botting TyCorps and other Assaults using a heavy ship (such as a Ragnarok): Strafe in a downward direction and keep all of those engaging you on a plane at 90 degrees to your yaw axis (keep them to your front, sides or behind you - roll to keep them from getting above or below) They will generally overshoot you so long as they don't get within 120m, and you can take your time lining up your shot and taking them out.
Even the behemoth (empty) has sufficient spin torque to utilize the rolling strafe, so that's not really an issue... It's all in how you use it.
On the subject of weight: get in the habit of checking the weight of the weapons you're using when picking them out; lighter weapons are better, especially on a light fighter.
2 Neutron II blasters (600kg each) on a centurion adds 1200kg to the ship's weight - that's a lot, considering the IBG cent is only 3000kg to begin with (a mass increase of 40%, subsequently lowering the thrust:mass ratio). Such a great mass increase will lower the ship's performance significantly. On the other hand, Phased Blasters are exceptionally light (100kg each for normal varients, 150kg for the TPG and Orion enhanced varients) and will enhance the performance of your ship.
One happy medium that a lot of players like to use is the Neutron MKIII or Law Neut, which does a lot more damage and weighs 400kg each. I don't recommend them for beginning players though because of their high energy consumption and difficulty in aiming.
The "Best" fighters with an L-port are:
Warthog (MKIV or [UIT]Territorial Defender) (1L, 1S)
[Serco]Prometheus (MKIII or SkyCommand) (1L, 2S)
Wraith ([Axia]Axia Guardian) (1L, 2S)*
Centaur (MKIII or [Tunguska]Agresso) (2L, 1S)
Atlas ([TPG]TPG Type-X) (1L, 1S)
*The wraith is a very good and balanced beginner ship, and the MKII and MKIII varients are generally decent in combat against bots as well, but the Axia Guardian Wraith is better (and sometimes called the 'miniprom').
The SkyCommand Prometheus is beyond any doubt the best L-port ship (unless you need 2 of them, in which case you use a Centaur) due to its massive armor and the fact that it handles like a light fighter.
Here's a workable tactic for botting TyCorps and other Assaults using a heavy ship (such as a Ragnarok): Strafe in a downward direction and keep all of those engaging you on a plane at 90 degrees to your yaw axis (keep them to your front, sides or behind you - roll to keep them from getting above or below) They will generally overshoot you so long as they don't get within 120m, and you can take your time lining up your shot and taking them out.
You're using a joystick for aiming I assume. Taking that into consideration, I have a couple things to suggest.
1) Rebind your throttle and strafe up/down keys. The defaults are REALLY hard to dodge well with, and though it is at first hard to adjust, you'll thank me for this later. Here's what you need to do. Throttle is bound to W and S. Up and down dodging is bound to R and F. This is EXTREMELY inneficient. What you need to do, is press ESCAPE when you're flying around. This will bring up the preferences thing. Click GAME or CONTROLS, (I don't remember what it's called now, haven't changed my settings in so long). Click on the panel that says CONTROLS or KEYBOARD or something. Rebind the throttle and the up/down strafe and you're life will be much better for it. :D
2) Once you get a hang of the throttle, try downloading this bind: http://www.vo-wiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Combat_Flight_Assist
It's very helpful for people with their throttle on the keyboard that don't want to be constantly holding down one direction key or the other.
Good luck,
-Calder
1) Rebind your throttle and strafe up/down keys. The defaults are REALLY hard to dodge well with, and though it is at first hard to adjust, you'll thank me for this later. Here's what you need to do. Throttle is bound to W and S. Up and down dodging is bound to R and F. This is EXTREMELY inneficient. What you need to do, is press ESCAPE when you're flying around. This will bring up the preferences thing. Click GAME or CONTROLS, (I don't remember what it's called now, haven't changed my settings in so long). Click on the panel that says CONTROLS or KEYBOARD or something. Rebind the throttle and the up/down strafe and you're life will be much better for it. :D
2) Once you get a hang of the throttle, try downloading this bind: http://www.vo-wiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Combat_Flight_Assist
It's very helpful for people with their throttle on the keyboard that don't want to be constantly holding down one direction key or the other.
Good luck,
-Calder
I also recommend Calder's Combat Flight Assist bind. Very handy in situations where you are using all of your fingers and are'nt able to hold throttle keys for too long.
"Throttle is bound to W and S. Up and down dodging is bound to R and F. This is EXTREMELY inneficient."
Works fine for me.
It's actually MORE efficient, provided that your feeble mind can cope with having up and down keys somewhere other than in between the left and right ones (For those who have played Descent, this should be rather intuitive as well, as I think that was the layout they used)
So yea, if you're still having trouble adjusting to the control layout, rebind them. Otherwise, it won't make any difference.
Works fine for me.
It's actually MORE efficient, provided that your feeble mind can cope with having up and down keys somewhere other than in between the left and right ones (For those who have played Descent, this should be rather intuitive as well, as I think that was the layout they used)
So yea, if you're still having trouble adjusting to the control layout, rebind them. Otherwise, it won't make any difference.
Luckily I have a Logitech Extreme 3D joystick. It is very comfortable ni the hand and only cost me about $39. It comes with about 12 buttons, thumb toggle (for lack of a better name), 3D axis of movement (up/down, left/right, twist) and trottle lever.
Buttons on top of the joystick (easily within thumb or finger reach):
1 (pointer finger) - wpn group 1 (CIBG - both neutron neutron)
2 (side thumb) - wpn grp 2 (CIBG - single neutron)
3 (top of stick far left) - enable/disable FA
4 (top of stick close left) - wpn grp 3 (usually my lg port)
5 (top of stick far right) - brake
6 (top of stick close right) - thruster
Thumb toggle (looks like a mini-joystick on top of the joystick :p)
up - target next closest target
down - target target in front
left - cycle next target
right - cycle previous target
Buttons on the base on the left side:
7 (bottom of stick far left) - throttle decrease (use when non-FA)
8 (bottom of stick middle left) - Strafe left
9 (bottom of stick (close left) - Strafe down
10 (bottom of stick far right) - throttle increase (use when non-FA)
11 (bottom of stick middle right) - Strafe up
12 (bottom of stick (close right) - Strafe right
Slider lever - Throttle (use in FA, I keep this at full usually)
The only thing I have to do with the keyboard now is before combat i set my destination back to the station in case I have to bug out. Mostly I just use one strafe, but I had to change it up when I had 5 bots on me at once. It still takes me a bit to kill the bots but they usually cannot hit me. Are there some keys I am not using that would assist in dogfighting?
Buttons on top of the joystick (easily within thumb or finger reach):
1 (pointer finger) - wpn group 1 (CIBG - both neutron neutron)
2 (side thumb) - wpn grp 2 (CIBG - single neutron)
3 (top of stick far left) - enable/disable FA
4 (top of stick close left) - wpn grp 3 (usually my lg port)
5 (top of stick far right) - brake
6 (top of stick close right) - thruster
Thumb toggle (looks like a mini-joystick on top of the joystick :p)
up - target next closest target
down - target target in front
left - cycle next target
right - cycle previous target
Buttons on the base on the left side:
7 (bottom of stick far left) - throttle decrease (use when non-FA)
8 (bottom of stick middle left) - Strafe left
9 (bottom of stick (close left) - Strafe down
10 (bottom of stick far right) - throttle increase (use when non-FA)
11 (bottom of stick middle right) - Strafe up
12 (bottom of stick (close right) - Strafe right
Slider lever - Throttle (use in FA, I keep this at full usually)
The only thing I have to do with the keyboard now is before combat i set my destination back to the station in case I have to bug out. Mostly I just use one strafe, but I had to change it up when I had 5 bots on me at once. It still takes me a bit to kill the bots but they usually cannot hit me. Are there some keys I am not using that would assist in dogfighting?
Dude, if you're killing the bots without getting hit...you're gonna be the one giving dogfighting lessons.
The joystick really helps. I tried with mouse and keyboard thinking this was the secret and would do okay but started running out of fingers. I had to have my 4 yr old hit buttons when I told him to. Luckily he knows his alphabet.
What is the next "bot" up the food chain?
What is the next "bot" up the food chain?
what bots are you on now?
Prosus are good... they're probably best, even in XP - you can find more difficult bots, but they don' give enough XP to be worth it (A.K.A., Arklan Guardians, Helmen Overseers, etc..)
Prosus are good... they're probably best, even in XP - you can find more difficult bots, but they don' give enough XP to be worth it (A.K.A., Arklan Guardians, Helmen Overseers, etc..)
Descent used the numpad to do strafing, and the default values were:
1 = Strafe Left
3 = Strafe Right
+ = Strafe Down
- = Strafe Up
1 = Strafe Left
3 = Strafe Right
+ = Strafe Down
- = Strafe Up
wired xbox 360 controller = rocketh :D
It has all the degrees of motion you need in its twin sticks, plus the analogue shoulder buttons etc
Only problem is that I don't quite have enough fingers to hold other buttons as well, so I have to use the 'stick-press' buttons to fire...which can throw your aim off if you're not careful... its great for flying though :)
I reckon if i get hold of some pedals or something, I could use those for accel/decel and free up the shoulder buttons for weapons :)
It has all the degrees of motion you need in its twin sticks, plus the analogue shoulder buttons etc
Only problem is that I don't quite have enough fingers to hold other buttons as well, so I have to use the 'stick-press' buttons to fire...which can throw your aim off if you're not careful... its great for flying though :)
I reckon if i get hold of some pedals or something, I could use those for accel/decel and free up the shoulder buttons for weapons :)
wired xbox 360 controller = rocketh thy socketh :D
It has all the degrees of motion you need in its twin sticks, plus the analogue shoulder buttons etc
Only problem is that I don't quite have enough fingers to hold other buttons as well, so I have to use the 'stick-press' buttons to fire...which can throw your aim off if you're not careful... its great for flying though - I never use flight assist any more even for docking, since I can easily dock from any direction even at full speed with the pad :)
I reckon if i get hold of some pedals or something, I could use those for accel/decel and free up the shoulder buttons for weapons :)
It has all the degrees of motion you need in its twin sticks, plus the analogue shoulder buttons etc
Only problem is that I don't quite have enough fingers to hold other buttons as well, so I have to use the 'stick-press' buttons to fire...which can throw your aim off if you're not careful... its great for flying though - I never use flight assist any more even for docking, since I can easily dock from any direction even at full speed with the pad :)
I reckon if i get hold of some pedals or something, I could use those for accel/decel and free up the shoulder buttons for weapons :)
Following up on Leeb's Straff+roll technique
One problem I find with that is that (as he mentioned later on) you need 6 analog dimensions to do that effectively (2 straff, 2 aim & 2 roll)
Given bots seem to align themselves on a plane to attack, as soon as you change plane, they have to readjust. This is why rolling changes the plane orientation and forces bots to realign.
However, given you're already side staffing, a quick down (or up) straff achieves the same effect and does not require 3 joysticks.
I'm using a logitech RumblePad wich has two analog sticks and I use that for aiming and staffing. It does the job pretty well.
I've killed off more than 10,000 bots this way.
One problem I find with that is that (as he mentioned later on) you need 6 analog dimensions to do that effectively (2 straff, 2 aim & 2 roll)
Given bots seem to align themselves on a plane to attack, as soon as you change plane, they have to readjust. This is why rolling changes the plane orientation and forces bots to realign.
However, given you're already side staffing, a quick down (or up) straff achieves the same effect and does not require 3 joysticks.
I'm using a logitech RumblePad wich has two analog sticks and I use that for aiming and staffing. It does the job pretty well.
I've killed off more than 10,000 bots this way.
I suppose I could use the top thumb toggle for another 2 dimention it is just a mini joystick on top of the big one.
Unfortunately, I have a laptop so no numb pad. However, even if I did I would need a 3rd arm/hand to work it since I use both on my joystick to control all the buttons. Maybe that kid in China should keep his third arm. He would have a serious advantage. :p Like the Dell commercial with the guy with 6 fingers on each hand. hehehe
Oh, forgot to mention I am on Tycorps right now for Adv Combat Missions. I do not remember seeing Prosus or Valnet AK-47s yet on my list.
Unfortunately, I have a laptop so no numb pad. However, even if I did I would need a 3rd arm/hand to work it since I use both on my joystick to control all the buttons. Maybe that kid in China should keep his third arm. He would have a serious advantage. :p Like the Dell commercial with the guy with 6 fingers on each hand. hehehe
Oh, forgot to mention I am on Tycorps right now for Adv Combat Missions. I do not remember seeing Prosus or Valnet AK-47s yet on my list.
iBump
By the Way, for anyone interested in mixing up their setup, Dual Saitek Cyborg EVOs kick some serious ass, and you can pick up a pair from Saitek's yahoo store for $60 sans shipping. They're fully ambidextrous, so you can roll like John Woo..
By the Way, for anyone interested in mixing up their setup, Dual Saitek Cyborg EVOs kick some serious ass, and you can pick up a pair from Saitek's yahoo store for $60 sans shipping. They're fully ambidextrous, so you can roll like John Woo..
One of the fascinating things about vo is that there really aren't any bests . What works brilliantly when fighting one player fails miserably against another. That is what keeps me playing , the variety of styles is huge .
Best advice ; mess about , experiment , see what suits you .....
Ecka
Best advice ; mess about , experiment , see what suits you .....
Ecka
Hey guys
I don't have 2 joysticks.
Besides, I think aiming with a joystick is harder than aiming the crosshairs with a mouse.
Is it possible to setup your interface to have Joystick + Mouse?
I see people manage to use 2 joysticks; I'm not ambidextrous but I'd like to try Joystick & Mouse one in each hand: Joystick for positional control (dodging) and Mouse for attitude control (aiming). Oh, I might get a headache.
Of course what to do with all the other keys (x b y n u t, etc) I haven't worked out yet.
thanks,
--EddyHolland
I don't have 2 joysticks.
Besides, I think aiming with a joystick is harder than aiming the crosshairs with a mouse.
Is it possible to setup your interface to have Joystick + Mouse?
I see people manage to use 2 joysticks; I'm not ambidextrous but I'd like to try Joystick & Mouse one in each hand: Joystick for positional control (dodging) and Mouse for attitude control (aiming). Oh, I might get a headache.
Of course what to do with all the other keys (x b y n u t, etc) I haven't worked out yet.
thanks,
--EddyHolland
In theory, this should work, since you can define what the different axes of your joystick activate. I guess you'll have to try and find out.
As for the other keys: Tough luck, you'll have to switch to kb for those you cannot remap to the js or mouse.
As for the other keys: Tough luck, you'll have to switch to kb for those you cannot remap to the js or mouse.
Don't forget the rag. 1v1, it can be very effective against the following;
Wraiths
Hogs
Moths
Centars
Mauds
If you are lucky or skilled (like me ;)
Valks, cents and vultures can be taken out
Proms are almost impossible, due to their better armor, manuviability, and all around goodness (assuming you fly with rockets when dueling, it makes it ineffective vs the prom)
The rag is good for dueling because it's a one or two hit kill. Either you hit a ship full-on and kill it, or you make it spin, and kill it. Either way, once your blast makes the ship lose control...
Boom.
Wraiths
Hogs
Moths
Centars
Mauds
If you are lucky or skilled (like me ;)
Valks, cents and vultures can be taken out
Proms are almost impossible, due to their better armor, manuviability, and all around goodness (assuming you fly with rockets when dueling, it makes it ineffective vs the prom)
The rag is good for dueling because it's a one or two hit kill. Either you hit a ship full-on and kill it, or you make it spin, and kill it. Either way, once your blast makes the ship lose control...
Boom.
I use a rag most times my self. My load out is just a bit difrent then most though. normally I have
2 charge cannons
1 gauss cannon
1 devastator
1 gat turrent
the 2 charge cannons are tied to my joysticks main fire butten on a 0.05 secound refire rate with the option to depress a toggle switch to use the charge feature.
The Gauss and devastator are on my B firebutten.
and the gat is on a C fire butten.
Now The tatic I normally use are, on my throudle I set my port/starboard straff to about 1/2 - 3/4 in one direction, my depression/elevation straff in the same 1/2 - 3/4 in a direction (on wheels so easy to just flip them over) and then use the roll from fast to slow in the other direction then the main slip to somewhat negate the movement of the other 2 sideslips.
There are many ways to fight, and just as many pilots out there. Same thing for wep loadouts. even with a mentor you are only getting one view of combat and that one may have a easy counter thery out there. exparemnt and find what works best for you, just dont for get the following:
"Speed is life"
2 charge cannons
1 gauss cannon
1 devastator
1 gat turrent
the 2 charge cannons are tied to my joysticks main fire butten on a 0.05 secound refire rate with the option to depress a toggle switch to use the charge feature.
The Gauss and devastator are on my B firebutten.
and the gat is on a C fire butten.
Now The tatic I normally use are, on my throudle I set my port/starboard straff to about 1/2 - 3/4 in one direction, my depression/elevation straff in the same 1/2 - 3/4 in a direction (on wheels so easy to just flip them over) and then use the roll from fast to slow in the other direction then the main slip to somewhat negate the movement of the other 2 sideslips.
There are many ways to fight, and just as many pilots out there. Same thing for wep loadouts. even with a mentor you are only getting one view of combat and that one may have a easy counter thery out there. exparemnt and find what works best for you, just dont for get the following:
"Speed is life"
"speed is life" .... hence the Rag X-o