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We're shooting to basically make them adapt reactively. So.. we'll have a number of tuned "behaviours".. like "Dodge and be defensive" or "Attack in X way in be aggressive" and it'll switch between them depending on the behaviour of the user, the behaviour "type" of the bot (like "bot personalities".. some are more scared than anothers, etc) and so on and so forth.
As far as beemers go, I like. Popped one today outright, and helped niki cap another. seem about perfect now.
As far as future developments go, let's talk economy.
Generally, we've got two kinds of players, really: thrill seekers and capitalist swine.
The thrill seeker is your average "pirate" or "pirate-hunter" and generally is a big fan of pvp. Also happens to include a couple of the more excitable traders.
The capitalist swine is the "other." The sort of people for whom the whole point of any game is amassing huge amounts of wealth and making sure no-one gets to it. As far as I can tell, these people tend to make themselves more secluded than the thrill seeker and enjoy the fruits of their greed in their loneliness. Can't say for sure, since I've never really been a big fan of money for moneys sake, but these people seem to be the traders and miners of vendetta.
As it stands, there is very little to encourage the two groups to interact, although that doesn't stop the thrill seekers from trying. The capitalist swine enjoy themselves in the safety of their nations space, or empty sectors no-one would ever look at, leaving the thrill seekers to try and be content with popping each other senselessly. This separation is, as far as I can tell, the work of the capitalists, although it's hard to say for sure, seeing as how they don't talk much. Try as the "pirates" may, the capitalists stay quiet capitalists, since the chance of meeting an unkind thrill seeker as a miner is so itty-bitty it could be ignored.
Right then. On to the point:
What I think needs to be done is the gentle coaxing of the capitalists out of their hiding holes and into the swirling madness of fun. This is where the impending economy changes come in. Clearly, the most secluded type of person is a miner, and with mining bringing in as much grubby coins as it does, why shouldn't the capitalists partake in it exclusively? Of course, those of us that have tried trading know that is has the potential of being rather more exciting, but why bother when it doesn't even make as much as a day next to a roid does?
So. Make the ores worth a lot less. A big lot. In the area of 20-50 (twenty-fifty) credits per for the best of ores. With the incoming craftingness mining will still have a place, albeit not such a lucrative one.
Of course, letting mining take all the blame would be rather unkind of me, so I'm gonna put trade missions in the spotlight. These crafty little bastards pretend to have something to do with actual trading of the sort I would encourage while actually being little less than yet another reason for a capitalist to stay in his or her home nation. After all, why would you venture out to the dangers of gray space for a few credits when you can make almost as much ferrying cargo back and forth inside the comfort of home AND get standing points for it? Who cares about the pirates to whom the sixty chunks iron ore you were retrieving on a mission is utterly useless! All the more for you!
My silly solution: Make the trading mission rewards less. Much less. I really don't know what they are now, but I suspect making the rewards twenty times less wouldn't be overly extreme. Up to you, anyway. What this would do, or at least what it would do in the world of my fantasy, is encourage all the people running cargo from azek to dau and back to head off to gray space for better deals, thus making thrill seeker - capitalist swine encounters more often, causing lots of exciting fun for everyone! Hurrah!
As far as future developments go, let's talk economy.
Generally, we've got two kinds of players, really: thrill seekers and capitalist swine.
The thrill seeker is your average "pirate" or "pirate-hunter" and generally is a big fan of pvp. Also happens to include a couple of the more excitable traders.
The capitalist swine is the "other." The sort of people for whom the whole point of any game is amassing huge amounts of wealth and making sure no-one gets to it. As far as I can tell, these people tend to make themselves more secluded than the thrill seeker and enjoy the fruits of their greed in their loneliness. Can't say for sure, since I've never really been a big fan of money for moneys sake, but these people seem to be the traders and miners of vendetta.
As it stands, there is very little to encourage the two groups to interact, although that doesn't stop the thrill seekers from trying. The capitalist swine enjoy themselves in the safety of their nations space, or empty sectors no-one would ever look at, leaving the thrill seekers to try and be content with popping each other senselessly. This separation is, as far as I can tell, the work of the capitalists, although it's hard to say for sure, seeing as how they don't talk much. Try as the "pirates" may, the capitalists stay quiet capitalists, since the chance of meeting an unkind thrill seeker as a miner is so itty-bitty it could be ignored.
Right then. On to the point:
What I think needs to be done is the gentle coaxing of the capitalists out of their hiding holes and into the swirling madness of fun. This is where the impending economy changes come in. Clearly, the most secluded type of person is a miner, and with mining bringing in as much grubby coins as it does, why shouldn't the capitalists partake in it exclusively? Of course, those of us that have tried trading know that is has the potential of being rather more exciting, but why bother when it doesn't even make as much as a day next to a roid does?
So. Make the ores worth a lot less. A big lot. In the area of 20-50 (twenty-fifty) credits per for the best of ores. With the incoming craftingness mining will still have a place, albeit not such a lucrative one.
Of course, letting mining take all the blame would be rather unkind of me, so I'm gonna put trade missions in the spotlight. These crafty little bastards pretend to have something to do with actual trading of the sort I would encourage while actually being little less than yet another reason for a capitalist to stay in his or her home nation. After all, why would you venture out to the dangers of gray space for a few credits when you can make almost as much ferrying cargo back and forth inside the comfort of home AND get standing points for it? Who cares about the pirates to whom the sixty chunks iron ore you were retrieving on a mission is utterly useless! All the more for you!
My silly solution: Make the trading mission rewards less. Much less. I really don't know what they are now, but I suspect making the rewards twenty times less wouldn't be overly extreme. Up to you, anyway. What this would do, or at least what it would do in the world of my fantasy, is encourage all the people running cargo from azek to dau and back to head off to gray space for better deals, thus making thrill seeker - capitalist swine encounters more often, causing lots of exciting fun for everyone! Hurrah!
Or you could just put all the really good ores and good trade runs in grey space.
Speaking as a capitalist swine that occasionally goes for PvP, I'd like to point out that most traders I know actually enjoy the thrill of the chase. The problem is not that traders are avoiding any particular region of space (TGFT went mining and trading in Odia last night, for example), it's the relative lack of both traders and hostiles right now.
As for game goals, I think pure aquisition of money is not what it's all about for traders and miners. We would love to have an effect on the universe just like the warring factions would. That will take missions with game affecting outcomes (like CtC), requiring ore and trade goods to buy/produce goods, crafting, etc. In the meantime, we do do our homework, make some money, stock up on ore, and perhaps train in combat.
I look forward to the day that faction A hires me to run a blockade with a delivery of vital goods while faction B tries to stop me. I look forward to having a station full of goods for sale, and producing and selling unique and valuable equipment. I look forward to being a valued member of the universe because my skills and resources compliment the skills and functions of the warrior class.
Lastly, if you want to complain about Trade missions being too rewarding, consider Border Patrol missions while you're at it. Traders SHOULD have more money and trading XP than warriors, just as warriors SHOULD have more combat/weapons XP. Right now, the problem is that EVERYONE who puts in a little effort has far more money than they know what to do with. If this were a more "realistic" economy, the traders would be rich and partner up with some warriors to ensure their safety. Meanwhile, the warriors would need to partner up with traders to avoid running out of cash. One way to encourage this would be to increase the buy price of ships and equipment. Another would be to restrict more profitable trade goods to those with higher trade XP, in the same way that other equipment has level restrictions.
As for game goals, I think pure aquisition of money is not what it's all about for traders and miners. We would love to have an effect on the universe just like the warring factions would. That will take missions with game affecting outcomes (like CtC), requiring ore and trade goods to buy/produce goods, crafting, etc. In the meantime, we do do our homework, make some money, stock up on ore, and perhaps train in combat.
I look forward to the day that faction A hires me to run a blockade with a delivery of vital goods while faction B tries to stop me. I look forward to having a station full of goods for sale, and producing and selling unique and valuable equipment. I look forward to being a valued member of the universe because my skills and resources compliment the skills and functions of the warrior class.
Lastly, if you want to complain about Trade missions being too rewarding, consider Border Patrol missions while you're at it. Traders SHOULD have more money and trading XP than warriors, just as warriors SHOULD have more combat/weapons XP. Right now, the problem is that EVERYONE who puts in a little effort has far more money than they know what to do with. If this were a more "realistic" economy, the traders would be rich and partner up with some warriors to ensure their safety. Meanwhile, the warriors would need to partner up with traders to avoid running out of cash. One way to encourage this would be to increase the buy price of ships and equipment. Another would be to restrict more profitable trade goods to those with higher trade XP, in the same way that other equipment has level restrictions.
Screwball, have you ever gone to a fair and tried out those target shooting things? You know, the sort of thing where you get twenty or so bbs and an air rifle to shoot them out of, and they line up around four of you losers in a line and tell you that the first one to get ten bbs into the center of their target wins a prize. So you know, you take your rifle, wait for the signal and unload straight into the center of a target, shot after shot, all the way to ten. The little bell they have rings and ta-da! The game is over, we have a winner ladies and gentlemen! Of course, you're feeling awfully proud of yourself, grinning like a fool and puffing up your chest a bit. After all, you did pump ten bbs straight through a little black circle drawn on some paper before anyone else could. That's gotta count for something with the ladies. Imagine your surprise when the guy running the show hand the sizable stuffed animal worth about half what you paid to play goes to the guy standing to your left. Of course, feeling rather insulted you demand answers from the proprietor, who calmly informs you that the target you shot to bits was in fact your neighbors target, rather than your own as you had thought whilst pulling the trigger. Now then, concentrate and try and remember, or imagine if you've never been to a fair, the feeling you would have had in your chest at that point.
Congratulations! You're feeling what is appropriate at this point in the discussion I so viciously tore you away from!
Congratulations! You're feeling what is appropriate at this point in the discussion I so viciously tore you away from!
Real nice genka, "I don't have enough innocent victims to slaughter, so lets F*** with the things they do for fun in order to flush em out and kill em, like I prefer to do."
Bah!
Bah!
Twenty points for Jakob!
Genka, if I could figure out what the hell you are talking about, I might be able to reply in an intelligible fashion. As it is, I guess I'll just resort to giving you a rasberry.
:P
:P
Jakob takes 20 point and turns them in for cash, beautiful cash!
'course, you could have had forty points if you'd picked up on the fact that the f***ing is meant to result in more fun for the capitalists too, but it's too late now. Cashed in points aren't returnable! >.o
Jakob likes fun but Jakob can't shoot stright. Howzabout instead of trashing ore values and jacking with trading, we raise the price of weapons and ammo 100 fold ? That way the stone cold killers will have to get off their duffs and experience the fun of working for a living. Yeah, and then pirates will have to either work for their loot or get better at their choosen "profession" and become real looters instead of just "chasers" as they are now.
Just kidding really, but what you just felt was you shooting your 10 BB's into MY target. ;-)
Just kidding really, but what you just felt was you shooting your 10 BB's into MY target. ;-)
i guess that the only problem i see with the hive is its potential growth rate. i mean say no one decides to battle the hive consistently for say a couple days. at the proposed growth rates in the wiki those couple of days could be devistating. especially considering there will be a future three levis. three levis allowed to grow virtually unhindered for a few days to a week or more and the univers would be overrun. now i understand that the proposed growth rates are merely that. PROPOSED! i assume they will be tweaked and what not to ensure the VO population could actually keep up with the growth rate on any given holiday lol. im not prediciting anything here just merely stating an obvious concern which im sure many have atleast thought about. but at any rate im sure the devs will have this thing completely worked out before it gets that far.
"That way the stone cold killers will have to get off their duffs and experience the fun of working for a living."
YES!
Curse those bastages for enjoying PvP!
Heck how about we just eliminate the whole thing all together.
Turn this into a REAL game with traders and Lots and lots of mining!
That'll be fun.
Then we can get lots of money... and ships! And really uber mining beams that give us really valuable ore!
Sounds like fun!
YES!
Curse those bastages for enjoying PvP!
Heck how about we just eliminate the whole thing all together.
Turn this into a REAL game with traders and Lots and lots of mining!
That'll be fun.
Then we can get lots of money... and ships! And really uber mining beams that give us really valuable ore!
Sounds like fun!
Why is that always the best counter-argument people can come up with?
"<suggestion>"
"Well, why don't we just take <entire fun quotient of the game> out, while we're at it?"
Seriously, Kix. Slippery slope arguments are a weak debate technique. Essentially you're trying to convince the bystander that forcing PvP-focused players to spend a little time earning all that expensive hardware they blow up is tantamount to removing the entire combat portion of the game. Try again.
"<suggestion>"
"Well, why don't we just take <entire fun quotient of the game> out, while we're at it?"
Seriously, Kix. Slippery slope arguments are a weak debate technique. Essentially you're trying to convince the bystander that forcing PvP-focused players to spend a little time earning all that expensive hardware they blow up is tantamount to removing the entire combat portion of the game. Try again.
Just so long as you people don't start bringing phalluses into it.
Edit: Just wanted to say, the killing spree mission is AWESOME.
Edit: Just wanted to say, the killing spree mission is AWESOME.
Well I'm sorry I fail to impress ctishman.
The fact of the matter is that this is a game. (OMGZ!)
"That way the stone cold killers will have to get off their duffs and experience the fun of working for a living."
This did not fit in with my definition of a game.
Working is just the wrong word.
EARNING, ok that would of worked.
"Essentially you're trying to convince the bystander that forcing PvP-focused players to spend a little time earning all that expensive hardware they blow up is tantamount to removing the entire combat portion of the game. Try again."
I was merely trying to show that trading and mining is merely work and the fun is PvP. Without PvP its all just pointless now isn't it?
I mean whats the point of trading?
What's the point of mining?
Let's say that the point is to get money and levels.
What is that money going to go toward?
Well that money is for ships and equipment. The only thing you can actually buy.
What point does the ships and equipment have without PvP?
The fact of the matter is that this is a game. (OMGZ!)
"That way the stone cold killers will have to get off their duffs and experience the fun of working for a living."
This did not fit in with my definition of a game.
Working is just the wrong word.
EARNING, ok that would of worked.
"Essentially you're trying to convince the bystander that forcing PvP-focused players to spend a little time earning all that expensive hardware they blow up is tantamount to removing the entire combat portion of the game. Try again."
I was merely trying to show that trading and mining is merely work and the fun is PvP. Without PvP its all just pointless now isn't it?
I mean whats the point of trading?
What's the point of mining?
Let's say that the point is to get money and levels.
What is that money going to go toward?
Well that money is for ships and equipment. The only thing you can actually buy.
What point does the ships and equipment have without PvP?
According to you.
For you, the purpose of the game is PvP. All other things build towards that eventual goal, and anything that detracts from your reaching that goal is work.
For others, the goal is mining, the sense of accomplishment that bringing in a full load of ore, or finding and protecting and harvesting a valuable roid brings. All other things (having some dork chase them around with rockets, for instance) detract from that, and are work. Likewise with trading.
The 'point' of trading and mining is to earn money. which for some players is an end unto itself, and for others is a step towards getting cool new stuff (of which there is a decided dearth in this universe, but that's a subject I believe we agree on).
However, for them, that stuff might be a better beam, a bigger hold, an engine with better sustained speed. These have a purpose outside PvP, because that's not what they want to do. That you cannot see the purpose does not make it any less valid.
(Edit: Removed mean commentary)
For you, the purpose of the game is PvP. All other things build towards that eventual goal, and anything that detracts from your reaching that goal is work.
For others, the goal is mining, the sense of accomplishment that bringing in a full load of ore, or finding and protecting and harvesting a valuable roid brings. All other things (having some dork chase them around with rockets, for instance) detract from that, and are work. Likewise with trading.
The 'point' of trading and mining is to earn money. which for some players is an end unto itself, and for others is a step towards getting cool new stuff (of which there is a decided dearth in this universe, but that's a subject I believe we agree on).
However, for them, that stuff might be a better beam, a bigger hold, an engine with better sustained speed. These have a purpose outside PvP, because that's not what they want to do. That you cannot see the purpose does not make it any less valid.
(Edit: Removed mean commentary)
"That you cannot see the purpose does not make it any less valid."
It's not that I can't see the purpose.
I can't validate the purpose as actually being fun, that's all.
Just because you don't like my sarcasm doesn't mean you have to insult my intelligence/and or lack of.
It's not that I can't see the purpose.
I can't validate the purpose as actually being fun, that's all.
Just because you don't like my sarcasm doesn't mean you have to insult my intelligence/and or lack of.
I can't remember who's rail hornet I was dodging on a cargo mission... but it was fun.
Piracy makes trading fun.
Plus... trade is so that you have enough capital to buy ships and stuff...
BTW... I am scared of the Levi's Giant Gauss... Seeing 8 of those scream off into space where I would have been was not at all relaxing...
Piracy makes trading fun.
Plus... trade is so that you have enough capital to buy ships and stuff...
BTW... I am scared of the Levi's Giant Gauss... Seeing 8 of those scream off into space where I would have been was not at all relaxing...
It's not that I don't like your sarcasm, it's that I didn't notice it. Remember that people do occasionally say things like that in complete earnest, and that there's no facial expression on teh intarweb.