Phaserlight, when someone is specifically targeting you to annoy you, not even to try to kill you unless you're afk or typing, it isn't a matter of "waiting at the WH and attacking". it's harassment.

Inc is right though, we don't want to ban people left and right, but a slight change of attitude might be appropriate.

But not verbal harassment, right?

Anyway, I'm not dipping my toe in this any further than that.

Step 1: Find one point in the post.
Step 2: Take it out of context.
Step 3: Post is now invalid?
-:sigma.SB

Inc makes some good points and I'm glad the game is going to be basically the same even with the rules. I guess the real question we're all asking ourselves, but no one really stated yet, is "How are the rules going to be enforced?". Strictly or just in extreme circumstances?

If its only in extreme circumstances, by your judgement and the rest or the dev and guides, then i guess thats ok. Like others, I feared that the rules would be strictly enforced and I think alot of people would have a problem with that.

So i guess we canuse this incident as a guide for our future in game actions. If you do what Arolte is accused of doing you are on firm ground and your actions won't get you in trouble. Am I, we, right in assuming that's true?

I don't mean to cause "general unrest within the game". I'm just looking for clarification, on how the rules will be enforced. And I don't want to assume anything, just in case.

JB
PS: By the way I like your style "Solra Bizna" :)
-------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer: The oponions expressed above are my own. I speak for myself only, not IDF, the Itani nation or any other player. I also hope my post isn't considered sarcastic in any way.

I have also been the victim of Arolte's harrassment. He continueally fires/typekills then runs and hides. The other night he did it for an hour or so before I finally logged. I understand your worries about going to far with the rules, but there are limits. He know's he's angering people and is only doing it to anger people. There is no Role Playing reason for constantly griefing someone just to be an irritant, and that is what he does.

Arolte just plays this game badly.
Its prolly just a lack of pvp skill and morals in his case.

I really can't see what all this fuss is about. I thought that this game is about space COMBAT. As far as I know harrassment is part of war. If faced by superior forces with better equipment skills and weapons, you use the tactics of hit and run, harrasssing the enemy to the point where he withdraws, due to heavy losses, and low morale.

Surely Arolte is doing just this. So he is playing the game, as it is intended to be played. If you are the victim of hit and run tactics you need to modify your own tactics, get crafty, "fight fire with fire", there are numerous examples in history of this sort of warfare.

Harrassment through the chat channels, text bullying, and verbal abuse? I dont buy that one, /ignore or /vote mute the culprit, report racial abuse - it is all logged on Guild's servers and we should let Guild deal with it.

Lets get on with the game..its called VENDETTA for a reason!

I was in-game last night until about the time this thread was started. I was never called to observe any player's behaviour. As a matter of fact, the only messages I received from Solra were to come to Deneb to BP.

If this was such a big deal, why wasn't I advised???

On another note, please refrain from any further flaming...while we do want to hear your thoughts on this subject, some of the comments here will only serve to get this thread locked.

Sorry to burst your bubble guys but we do need many of these rules.

I like to think that I'm a guide that is level headed and even tempered and I try to apply the rules fairly to everyone. However in my capacity as a guide I have been called the gambit of derogatory names, and two players have offered to find out who I am and kill me personally. Yes I understand they may have been upset but that doesn’t excuse or condone their behavior if it continues.

I feel I have the right to not be bombarded with expletives or threatened personally.

I'm also sorry to hear that players are so distrusting of the guides because I have always tried to be fair and honorable in my actions as a guide. I thought I had built a good reputation for myself and other guides and it's a shame if there is a guide who is undermining the role.

VO's community has tried to follow the golden VO rule: BE NICE and I think the original players took this to heart. This is one of the reasons i stayed playing VO because the actions of the on-line players were humane: there wasn't constant profanity or slurs against various groups, there was flirting but not overt sexual references, and the players were accepting of the worldwide playing base. In general this was an enlightened player base.

However as the player base has shifted to newer players, the culture of VO is changing. Every couple of days I come across a player who feels that since they paid they can say and do anything they want. They don't know about the BE NICE rule or don't care. The VO community will have to adapt to the newer members. Writing down our understood rules is one way to set and enforce the standards many current players have internalized.

This game is intended to draw a larger player base and with that influx of new personas we will need guidelines so we can draw the line and tell someone when they have crossed it. The developers also have to protect their game from LAWSUITS. The guides do document all interactions with players and have a special forum for recording disciplinary actions, concerns about players, possible bugs, and to repair accounts. However without the EULA and RULES OF CONDUCT, VO would have to spend money defending a player suspension in court.

I hope noone ruins the game for me/everyone cause they want to be a ************* (insert favorate curse word/phrase)

/givemoney Devs 2c

RelayeR, sorry, I for one didn't even think of asking guides to monitor what was going on. I was annoyed enough to leave the area and turn my ingame attention other places. also, I heard that some players were going to post on the boards because they were so sick of the harassment.

skystrider: there is a lot of stuff that happens in war. but, we don't want to see most of them in VO, do we? when you're explicitly out to ruin peoples possible enjoyment of the game, making people log off and when they get back, only ask "is <foo> on?", you're no longer "just playing a game". there has been widespread talk of station camping and targeted ganking. this is part of the same war, is that okay with you?

Ok, my thoughts on this.

1) Morals don't even come into it
2) A fleeing pilot (non-moth) is easily downed by a team of 3
3) Arolte is annoying but not OOC malicious.
4) The game needs to evolve to prevent gameplay harassment.

I would like to propose a duel infraction bounty flag. You interrupt a designated /duel, and you get a small bounty on your head and a 5% penalty of all exp when you're next PKd.

Not only that, I think dispatching a Strike Force team from nation space should chase a player down until the player or the team is dead. UIT wouldn't care who flew through their space, Itani/Serco might have a few... issues.

Thirdly, if a player is annoying members of your faction/nation in grey space, there should be a /report *name* *nation* command with which to relay stuff back home (if you're 950+). Then perhaps an Observer bot from your nation could track *name* and check their activities for 30 minutes or so- if it was destroyed or witnessed the destruction of an admired player, BANG. Hated. Of course it would have to maintain a safe 500m to avoid accidental destruction, and be able to evade rockets without much hassle.

Great idea dave!
Maybe next time I decide to sit on a roid in b8 for hours on end I'll get a buddy to start a duel with me, after which we'll enjoy the relative safety of a 5% xp hit on anyone looking for an easy kill off me!
Genius!

UncleDave, the /report feature sort of ruins the whole purpose of even having grey space. It's supposed to be completely unmonitored. In grey space anything goes. Plain and simple.

Believe it or not I was also actually thinking about ways of penalizing players who interrupt duels. It was never my intention to interrupt any duels. When I see an enemy player idling or not fighting in Sedina, I'm going to attack them. If I see that they're in the middle of a duel, I'll stand back and let them fight peacefully. The bottom line is it's impossible to tell who is in duel mode and who isn't in duel mode. And I think that's where all the friction among players stems from.

I had a similar idea of duel protection as well. Like getting temporary protection from non-dueling players with a warning message similar to being protected from a faction, if you fire on them. However, I think it can easily be exploited in a number of ways...

1. Player A and B decide to gang up on Player C in a heated skirmish. So Player A and B enter duel mode. Player C can no longer attack either player because they are now "duel protected." While Player A and B are free to do as they please with no penalty.

If this feature were to be implemented, it should be two-sided.

2. Okay, and let's say the same rule is in place. Except Player C decides to only damage Player A or B, but not kill either one of them. This is also considered duel interference, however Player C has found a way to bypass the penalty by simply damaging one or both of the players.

I don't know how something like that would be resolved. It sounds like a good idea, but I think it has its shortcomings.

I should also note that XP hits do nothing to anyone. The vast majority of players are at pretty high levels, to the point where they wouldn't even care if they lost XP. Since you can't go backwards in licenses, it really isn't that much of a penalty at all. So that being said, there needs to be another way to enforce these rules besides taking XP away.

Actually, you can lose license levels from losing XP when dying to a bounty, but not from losing XP for killing low level players. At least, that's what I think I've heard from some of our players who've had several bounty deaths.

The funny thing about complaints about type killing and duel interruption is that inevitably, the person was typing or dueling in B8 or some other combat sector.

Dur. If you don't want to be interrupted, go somewhere else. If you want to type in B8, accept that you're going to get ganked.

I can only imagine what everyone complaining about Arolte would have said if they played in Alpha. If you do something stupid, or don't work hard enough to protect yourself, someone would kill you. Plain and simple.

The fire and run thing is annoying, though. I wonder how Arolte keeps finding you to attack for his hit and runs. You don't keep going back to the same sector, do you?

Beolach, I believe they have fixed the xp loss for killing low level players IF they have three kills of their own. Anyone with less then that is considered newbie and you loose 1000-1300 xp per kill, I know from personal experience on that.

JB wrote:

"I think you will find the guides will only enforce the rules when they see fit. They will probally only punish extreme cases and people who get on thier nerves. Which is not really fair, but i'm sure they will enforse the spirt if not the letter of the law. Because if they did enforce the rules strictly there would be no players left."

This offends me. I thought we had a better working relationship than this.

I tend to investigate any issue that arises when I'm online, and my handling of the situation is dictated by the response of the offender. If somebody is violating the rules and responds appropriately to my asking them to desist, it's just a warning (which I log on their account and can view later). If they choose not to heed my request, or are a repeat offender (as evidenced by the log), I am likely to take short-term action against them (muting, banning, whatever seems appropriate). If they continue with the behavior after having function reinstated, I again take action and confer with Incarnate to discuss other ways to resolve the issue. I expect the other guides to operate in this manner, and I know for a fact that they do in most cases. If anyone is aware of a SPECIFIC instance where there was guide misconduct, please email Incarnate.

I think that players would be very unhappy with a Draconian approach of responding to any instance of rule-breaking with the same consequence.

Again, the changes to the Rules of Conduct were made to shield Guild from litigation. Guild has a lengthy reputation of being respectful toward it's users. They would never change the rules without a great deal of fanfare and discussion.

I wasnt looking to get him banned at all, just for him to stop purposely trying to ruin my gameplay to the point where it is no longer any fun at all to be playing while he is. I would of originally posted it to this post but I had not brought myself uptodate on the forums before I posted. Either way, he makes it his sole purpose to make the game unplayable for those he harasses, and has said as much in his post in the RP forums. Since he has decided to go on this little streak, all he has succeded in doing is pissing people off to the point where they log. He claims he doesnt want to die, so that justifies his actions, but I wonder why he continually starts fights if he doesnt want to die, seems rather counter-productive.

I don't see how anyone could contain themselves from doing their best to ruin your gameplay after reading that post of yours. Seems rather counter-productive.