Well welcome to the game, lets hope you keep on liking the game once you move up to the pvp part, which is a big part of the metagame.

cheers

EDIT: But why don't you mind dieing? As you yourselve stated, there can't be a problem of a financial nature since you have learned to outrun many of the pirates (you are a fantastic runner) which leads to profit and an unsurmountable amount of cash.

You yourselve stated that you learned from your mistakes, dieing is a result of making mistakes. On top of that, without mistakes you won't improve since as you agreed that is what made you improve. Therefore I don't see a reason why you don't mind dieing since every time you die it makes you stronger. As you yourselve evidenced? And please don't take this offensively, but I really wanna know exactly why you mind dieing. (PS: i never stated I liked dieing, i stated I didn't mind it which is a gigantic difference).

I don't mind it because it means I'll learn out of my mistakes, or because I have met a better fighter from who I probably have learned something. I don't mind because I respect the other person for his abilities and in my mind he deserved the kill that he received. I don't mind dieing since it learns me to be more stingy with my rockets if I am going ony rockets and increases my accuracy due to the need to rely on that and that alone. I can't just say, well this might be a hit off target but anyway I still got my trusty neut to ifnish it off if needed so i can risk it more readilly.

I deleted a post that was quite mean-spirited toward a user. This is an area for open discussion. Please take pains to avoid creating a hostile environment here. Thanks.

rene- hmm- forgive me for not really understanting some of what you said-about the learning from dieing---but yes we learn every time== but i never really meant to lash out if you thought that--i felt you were too upset about the way other play the game--i am leveled enough to get everything available for high level players- so i owudl say i am pretty experienced- but i dont have fun in VO with PvP- as i knwo alot of others dont either- you jsut never hear of them- they are minding their own business adn making friends- you say PvP is a big part of the game--i agree---but no larger than mining, trading, grouping, etc- i think my main point was that people expect PvP tactics and 'rules' to expand into the universe--and they dont-- i am here to survive- i would rather not be killed- and will do all i can to avoid it-
/me cant type very well
/pays his next 10$

@Bryce Coulson

[quote](Actually, maybe don't ask Lin, she was sort of bitter.) [quote]

Sorry, but you are not important enough to make me what you call bitter. You are only someone who interfered in good fights getting a quick and easy kill.

I know mik,

Trading and mining is a part of the game, spucky would kill me if I dared to say otherwise :D. But according to the devs, the endgame is more geared towards pvp play at the moment (the bp mission was a great example of it). I know that mining is a great part of it, but you can only do so much mining. What is there more to mining once you know a couple good places to mine and you can farm them every day so to say? You can maybe go out on a limb and try to find a better place or more places. Same thing for trading, once you have done all the missions a couple times, after you build up a nice fortune. What are you going to use all those build up fundses for? there are no real moneysinks for mining or trading available. The only moneysink that I can see is dieing from pvp. But seeing as you don't like that, what will stop you from once you are getting bored from trading and mining (trust me it will come) to then not quit?

And yes, I know that I am a bit too emotional with all my posts, but for most I have a good reason. I have seen what happened once we accepted running as being a good tactic. heck all we saw were people running all the time. PvP became notthing but a game of running and station and wormhole camping. It actually killed a lot of fun for the casual gamer like you. Heck how would you feel if 1 person that loved pvp-ing could just sit oiutside of the station waiting for its prey to come out and blow it up (since in hteir eyes it stopped the running, and naturally they were happy with the free I pwnzr your bxrz kills). And yes that is still possible, you just gotta be a bit more carefull now.

What I expect mik (not saying most of us, since that will prolly be incorrect), is that if you engage in pvp that you accept these tactics and rules. As long as your mining, trading whatever I don't have a reason minding seeing you run. However if you come with a rag with the intention of shooting someone, then stick and fight and kill me or die. And my point about dieing was that if you don't have that mindset, the chance of improving in pvp is small at best. PvP is and has always been a point of trial and error, and loss is exactly what keeps you on your toes and thinking. What works best vs that person, mmmhh that tactic that i used against x has no bearing or effect on y. He uses rockets, so i gotta be more carefull with my dodges etc.

But you are right on one point, nobody likes dieing... heck even I try to survive as much as possible, since thats human nature. However if I am playing pvp, many people don't kill me once I am out of rockets, they say thanks for the fight go and rearm, because we respect each other. While in the other case, its all about muahaha I killed you first, you suck man... you suck so much that you momma... etc... and all we get is heated arguments, trash talk and even grudges within game. (yes I have seen them)

As a community I prefer the first one above all. And I have seen both in vendetta. I just don't want to let this behaviour reemerge, since in the end that will be the deathstab of it. But maybe I'm just to big of a softy... I don't know... maybe im to much of a goody goody two shoes... sigh

True, I agree with Nya13.
Some ppl doesnt know the meaning of "honor" in real life, how can we expect them to show "honor" in game?
We all have different concepts, for some ppl its honorable to spam swarms at duellers and ran away, for some not.
No point arguing about that.

How does a tactic of running make you win? Did you kill the opponent? What are you going to do if everybody employs this tactic? Just sit there, take a potshot and see them running when they reach 90% health ? Wooptiedoo that is going to be great fun. And yes... I remember that time fondly, and I don't want it to come back ever. If you want that maybe a pure pvp oriented game is a better choice in stead of a hybrid?

The reason why you won't do this because in opposition to real life you are playing a game to amuse yourselve, its not to save your own life... I don't give a thing if I loose a ctc trasnport if I am the only one that doesn't employ the sitting at the station tactic. (Or why do you think, i never hunt ctc transports at the station where they leave from), i always try to catch them in one of the bottlenecks. If I fail, then it was a good job from the defenseteam, or I just suck, either of the 2 explanations work for me.

Anyway, I know that honour is a very contested word in any online game. Although we can probably agree that honour is the culmination of rspect for each other. And it is this concept that forms a great community. Once more i prefer to have fun with people and hang out, not start up the pc and think hhmm hwo am I gonna blast their brains out now. Hah I see one of those annoying grunts again, lets splatter their brain all over the game, heh...

I can understand that someone does not understand the concept of honour. And finds it stupid and even idiotically moronic. Still, you give no other alternative to form a great community, or at least a community that I wanna play. But like I said, maybe I just don't belong in a game like this. On the other hand, I am not a pure pvp-er, nor a pure pve-er. I like them both, and maybe seeing as this game is exactly aimed towards this marketsegment, maybe I am exactly the type of being they wanna please in opposition to the full out rpg and fps people. I don't know, I just know what I enjoy and what I don't enjoy. I also know that the missionstatement is a culmination of as well a gear towards pvp as towards rpg. And seeing that in most rpgs the evil side can't win (or has got it a lot harder), I don't see why we need to accept running as a viable concept. Or for that matter not being honourfull. I never said it can't be in, but it should be frowned upon.

If you add timers to jump away, you will also make piratign to easy, heck you will even create griefing untill the umptieth grade. And I don't want that. Like I said, it is very hard to get a good balance between being able to run and being able to chase. It is even so difficult that the easiest way in my point of view is to let the community as a whole look down upon and and not accept it. That is the only way to make the occurences stop or decrease in the short run.

Although the people that wanna play the dickhead/griefer will use this tactic even if it is generally frowned upon.

EDIT: education is a big part of a good community. I'm sure that when you first started the game you did some swarmspamming or stuff like that, but as you grow in the game you prefer to have fun and see some kills on your stat as well, especially if you just fought a guy for 10 mins and he then leaves just as you start to get the upperhand. But if this guy ever does this to me, then expect me to never fight him again even if he is considered to be one of the prime 'skilled' people, and if I do ever meet him in game, I will ignore his sorry ass for as long as humanly possible(a /ignore might be done as well). To bad the /ignore doesn't work to get him out of my game :( now that would be a novelty :D

How can I be extreme, if everyhting I say is the middleground of the 2 playtypes ?

yes and all I do is trying to get the middleground in stead of offering fun to 1 type of player.

You can play a bad person, but the only difference from an fps is that you don't get rewarded for it... but the option is there.

You can be an ass, but it isn't encouraged.

I give options to all but keep the general tendence of an rpg as was laid out in their missionstatement (eg frontpage). Last time I read it its not an fps with rpg fragments, its supposed to become an RPG with fps fragments. And everyhting I proposed preserves these fps fragments, but also conserves the RPG in it.

You can play the role of a pirate, but it won't be easy. You can play the role of a bastard, but don't expect being highly regarded as being a fun char. I say nowhere that can not do that, I am saying that you should not do that.

thats all

EDIT: once more I'm not saying that you should not be able to run, I am however saying that it should not become accepted as a favourable tactic. Does this maybe puts my point accross ?

in a rpg a gamemaster puts rules and boundaries (which can actually be quite nombrous) from which any person playing a role can't divert.

If the gamemaster (in this case the community or the devs) state that running is such a non acceptable boundary, then any person roleplaying has to accept this boundary if he wants to play within this realm.

If GM says no rockets allowed, then anybody packing rockets is breaking the rpg-ness of the game (which can be intended to cripple people to use new ideas and new roles).

I can't say that I am a master in rpg, or that I know everything about it, but i hope that i know the basics.

cheers

not completely nya, most tradeships can get pirated especially once they are bogged down with cargo. Not to mention that you can't ask them to not run since if they don't run they will be death meat to any person in a fightership, since that is exactly what has been asked time and time again. People want tradeships that are filled weaker then when empty, whih I can correlate to. But demanding them to fight with an enemy that they know they can't win is foolish. In those cases running away should be allowed.

I'm not asking for swarms to be nerfed, im asking for the behaviour that gets exerted shooting these swarms/rockets to get not accepted in the general community. Once you start to accept them be sure that everybody will do this action (example of what bp has become). or even a bigger example of the past is the triflare running debacle which some of the pure pvp-ers so fondly remember.

Besides if running was hard, what chance would any trader have but just give off his cargo to the first pirate? And in stead of making piracy to be an elite behaviour for the wicked (a role), we ar emaking it into something every jack can do. Not to mention that trader would become an endangered species.

Besides nya, don't forget there might be danger... but overdoing it is also to much. And what you suggest would be overdoing it. Who would even fly a heavy ship if you were a sitting duck in it? Its already hard enough keeping a heavy ship alive versus a light ship. You might have great hull, but you can burn hull fast due to your bigger size. Imaging having it go up against 2 light ships. It will always be toast. And no light support ships will be able to actually defend it.

In my view the ability of some ships are nicely balanced. But people will always find ways to annoy other people even if you install the latest anti annoyance update. people will find a way around it its human nature. And the only solution to people are other people...

dangerous != sitting duck, since a sitting duck means nobody will use it making variety completely null and useless.

Dangerous means, if you go out you might get killed, it does not mean if you go out you will get killed.

So what if 75% of th emap is protected, as if most people are within that part of the map..., but like I said it will still not help us against the people that search ways around this protection. And they exist. I'm sure you can freely move about and shoot whoever you want in protected space, I know I can. You just need to carry the consequences of doing so

Not to mention that I said, after your change they will become endangered species since if you skew the game in favor for piratign, then practically nobody will trade. If you however skew it for the trader, there will be people that are ingenious who will be able to actually pirate other people. Not to mention that having a bigger percentage of traders then pirates is a good thing. I'm sure you can imagine why. But if you can't, ill give an example: Hey im joe doe, the average jack and im steadilly moving goods from x to y. All of a sudden boom there goes my 200k ship and you hear from afar a person yelling muahaha so long sucker eat my flares, or... If that happens once, ok no prob. But if this happens a second time, and a third time and oh boy a 4th time... I don't think that mister joe doe will be playing a trader for a long time, heck he might even stop playing vendetta completely. But naturally according to you, that doesn't matter since we don't need those people since their view is unbalanced and a carebear view. And to htem should not be listened, only to me my little I can't shoot where I want and whom I want nerf nerf nerf... For a full fps, I would have agreed on your stance, but in an rpg you can't just allow that. And if you can't understand that...

But still according to you whenever you can't understand something, it is just not valid... great reasoning...

That means that half of the books avbout nuclearphysics are utter yada and nonsens because I can't understand them. And still it exists and works...

PS: never say that somebodies point of view is incorrect since it is myu opinion, you can differ with it but can't make a judgement over it. the better thing would have been by saying I don't agree with your arguments or your point of view and thn giving the reasons.

@Lin

[quote]Sorry, but you are not important enough to make me what you call bitter. You are only someone who interfered in good fights getting a quick and easy kill.[quote]

HAHA, WEEEEE!!! Pthblblblblbt!

I just spent an hour in game BPing with Lin and Spellcast and one other, and I wanted to say thank you devs for fixing the rewards...

I had a great time, we even managed to powerlevel a noob up to combat 3 in half an hour, and I made it most of the way to Combat level 7 from combat 6. These rewards feel a lot more reasonable, and people still do the BP mission, and it's a lot of fun.

Thank you!

I still think we need to have an even lower reward for bots ( 75 each, dropping it by another 25) but make the reward for killing actualll players more in line with what it was when andy fixed it. 300XP for killing a player in the mission is reasonable, its just being able to powerkill the bots that made the 300xp/kill insane.

@renegade
ok- now that some extreme talk has subsided within this conversation- i am beginning to see where you are coming from-- i woudl have to say my concern is now teh DEVs changing things drastically within gameplay towards PvP- effects of swarms- jump timers- jacking with ship specs again--man- i think it is up to the community to learn to deal with these things--
-too many restrictions=not as much fun-
and i understand your point now against running- you are coming fromthe view of someone engaging you adn then chickening out--
--my view was from plain survival- AND if a bad guy engaged me and i was about to die--then i will run--but yes- i will not purposefully engage someone and once i realize that i am getting waxed- run--
not to sat that i wont fire a couple of shots up your nose as i pass by you though in the future--just to let you knwo i am there :)
__FINAL POINT__ the whole trash talk pissed off jabber onthe channels is stupid sometimes- but i think we need to be a little more lax about this- if someone smack talks you for doing something they didnt think you should have done- just chill- we should take the game more serioulsy than the talk

Vendetta is stuck between being an RPG and being SpaceQuake. In SpaceQuake, you do the honorable thing and get killed if the other guy outpilots you. In an RPG, you run like hell if you think you're going to lose, because who wants to die?

Since everyone is still in SpaceQuake mode, if anyone tries to role play (you know, try to stay alive), it's a problem. Maybe once the game has some story elements, or even actual missions - "Patrol three sectors and make it back alive" - people will learn to accept that running away is the a key part of combat. And of course, add missions like "Defend this sector for ten minutes", so that running away isn't always a viable option.

People run from bots when they're getting beaten... right?

So why is it wrong to run away from other people?

If they really want the kill that bad, then they'll get it...

Killed by a Bot... or killed by a player... what's the difference? you still have to replace your ship and equipment.

it has the same effect either way... right?

I hope I made sense. Thank you for your time.

Even in an rpg you respect your opponent if he was noteworthy.

Also star, going to die or dieing is a big difference, im sure that even in rpgs a couple lucky rolldices could give you 2 criticals and you still dice th eopponent before dieing yourself.

This has absolutely nothing to do with being one or the other, but making it fun for a skilloriented game. Hunting down a person who picks a fightn and then always runs away, even if I succeed once in catching him, it is not fun... that justs gets old. Why would I even fight him if he exerts that behaviour? I know I wouldn't, and if everybody exerts that type of behaviour the game is going to be oooooh soooo much fun with people running away constantly. Every game has some rules to which you must keep yourselve to keep it fun. Although I don't care for the occasional runner, but having that same behaviour always... no sorry then just don't go into the pvp aspect.

ICBM, the difference between getting killed by a person or a bot is a gigantic difference, the bot don't care if you run or not. But some humans do, and seeing that we have to please all the players, there is a need for a middleground. And in my eyes, a middleground that accepts running for some things but not for others is a decent middleground. Since im not pleading for never running away. I'm not pleading for always running away. Heck im not even pleading for running away at all. What I am however saying is that if you do engage in a fight, have the curtosy to stick and die or deal death. Its th eleast you can do. Not to mention that people will appreciate you far more for it(since eveybody likes to get a kill on hteir sheet), then if you run away.

PS: there are boundaries to roleplaying. I could roleplay an ass, but that would get me muted fast. Or even banned. I could roleplay a rascist same effect. I could roleplay whatever... but it needs to keep the game 'fun'. And don't tell me that rp-ing an ass can't be fun... since im sure some people will disagree.

Roleplaying doesn't mean you have dice rolls, it means you pretend to be something your not. If I roleplay a pilot, it doesn't mean I start throwing 20 sided die around, it means I try to emulate what a pilot would do.

I know of no pilots that would stick around and let themselves die if their opponent did a good job, if only to save the hardware they are flying.

Renegade, right now there's only one type of PvP. If we had real mission - patrol three sectors, defend this base, escort this bot - running would become a viable, realistic, necessary tactic. Right now death is meaningless, mission failure is meaningless and well.. just about everything you do is meaningless. There's no story, no motivation for me to stick around and die beyond whatever sense of honor I try to maintain in game.

You're talking from a SpaceQuake perspective. You're saying "Stick around and die because I beat you, and there's no reason to leave." Great, but if that continues forever, Vendetta is doomed. The game has potential, but there's no way in hell it can last unless it starts to have a story, or a purpose, or content. SpaceQuake has had a long time to prove itself, and so far it has failed. 30 active players is not an MMO game.

Right now, the only reason to play is to kill someone. The kill is clearly all you fight for. In a story driven game, killing is incidental. I could care less if I kill all the Shivan fighters in Freespace, for instance, so long as the capital ship I'm escorting gets to its destination and triggers a cool story event.

Vendetta, in it's "finished" form (which I'll define to be whatever state the game is in when the devs decide to advertise), needs to have more reason to fight than just to kill the other guy. CTC used to do this for us, but it got boring and repetitive and had no effect on anything after a while. It had no story behind it. We need battles with varied bots fighting each other with players as participants, not the main players. We need capital ships gracefully killing each other while a transport tries to make it to the wormhole. We need "border patrol" missions that are actually patrols on a border.

Once we have that, this argument over running is meaningless and moot. If I run from a fight, denying you a kill, it doesn't matter. You win your mission. Hopefully we can move beyond SpaceQuake soon... or just give up, go to back to the 18 sectors, and let me have my tri-flares back. You can't have it both ways.