i just tried the Rev C for the first time and i was shocked at how agile it realy is. i've fought against them before, and i knew they were manuverable, but this thing changes direction so fast that i had trouble docking it the first time i tried.

yeah, its too fast,

but with proms and rev C's the uberness of one mandates the uberness of the other. (Even though the prom is still better than the rev C by a lot)

Yeah. Shape and I complained about the Rev C/IBG about it being too uber and nothing can kill it...

So the devs gave us something that can kill it : the uber-prom...which happens to kill everything else.

Drop the Rev C's armor, but do it after something is done with the uber-proms.

arr go IBG!

Speaking of which, I fought Amarus today, who was using an all-rocket Skycommand prom, and it was certainly fightable (from my Rev C).

Its still a bit too fast. But I think the deadly thing is really the Gatling turret combined with the flares.

Flares are still really fast, they could take a 5 m/s speed cut, but I think its workable.

AGT is just too much of a cop-out. UncleDave said recently that the trick with AGT is dodging. But that's true for any wep. If anything, the AGT lets you dodge more easily.

People must have noticed by now that a lot of the newer pvp'ers, as soon as they have access to the prom, will fly nothing else.

It rewards them more than any other ship, so why would they fly a light fighter?

i wasn't actualy complaining, i was just expressing my extreem suprise. i had no idea they were so agile, i've flown other cents before and i figured that mainly the rev c was just a 2 gun cent. All and all with the cap ship battles i finde a good variaty of ships used, i've seen rags, wraiths, even moths, and a bus.

so all and all i have no problem with there being some ships that are easier to use than others. as far as i'm concered it just makes more prestege for those who can do well with thye more dificult ships.

Actually killing rev c's/IBG's is very do-able in other lights... ok, in one other light. SVG/Corvus Vult with dual guass.

Durr.... Shape, why does the AGT allow you to dodge more easily?... I think you're trying to say that the SCP with an AGT means you have a very fast platform with the armor to take a lot of damage, and has a weapon that does a lot of aiming for you when you're dodging.

But I still don't see the point of nerfing the AGT to reduce the effectiveness of the SCP. If you do that, you reduce the effectiveness of 5 or 6 other ship types that can also mount the AGT, and are significantly less effective than the SCP to begin with.

well, the AGT could still stand to be more skillful, even on hogs. The hogs just need to be a good deal better. And I'd like to see the SCP fixed independently

But the question is, how do you make this wep skillful. I had an idea, which deals with the ammo tracking problem, and sorta combines that with Uncledave's spinning turret idea.

Basically you have a GT which has 30 ammo, each ammo is a clip, once you start using it, you can't stop, so it doesn't have to track the individual ammo, it just fires continuously for some set number of seconds.

(this is sorta like UDave's Idea, but instead of having to plan when to start firing because you have to warm up, you have to plan when to start firing, because you don't want them to fly off and waste your clip)

So you have ammo, AND once its on, its on, you can't shut it down.

The really sad thing is that a rev-c/IBG will beat a valk (which is supposed to be the ultimate light fighter!) 9 times out of 10 with similarly skilled pilots. Of course the prom crushes the valk as well. But, come to think of it, there's not much that the prom doesn't crush and not much that the valk does crush these days.

my Valks enjoy most ships apart from Rev C / IBG / SCP / Prom MkIII. of course, I only get to do this a few times a day, since everyone and they kid sister flies one of those four ships.

the Valk is a good ship today, and if we shave off 2K armor of the rev c / IBG (and possibly take away another 5-10N thrust) we're going to see them become a lot more aware of a dual energy + flare Valk. try a Valk against a Hog, Ragnarok, Hornet, Maud... Cent MkII / MkIII... the Valk is a good ship. it's just not uber, which means it has issues competing today.

I concur with Terjekv's comments. May I also add that the Sky Command should probably fly closely to the Axia Wraith. It should probably only have 400 - 450nm thrust or so. <-- now that will bring out some complaints.

If the Cents took a hit and became paper darts, and the Prom stopped being the only ship that can consistantly take them on, then it may be a lot more fun across the board.

Fine, martin. But then the Rev C should fly close to the EC-101 mkII.

No it can fly the same but it would lose 2000 armour. That should be enough to compensate. I killed lots of Rev C's with an Axia Wraith.

Edit: Guess it depends what people want. Either solution would do the job. I personally prefer the armour one so the the really skilled pilots can keep using it. However to drop it to EC101 style flight is a huge nerf and a bit too far.

lol too many complaint

i am going to reroll an Itani and show you that Valk isnt so bad.

IBG is already better than the Rev C now (equal)

keep in mind Rev C isnt serco ship but independant faction (Orion)

ooookay?

Maybe the reason why I think valks are so useless nowadays is more related to the AGT as well as the cents. If the cents took an armor cut I think they would be pretty balanced and valks would be more able to take them on. But the fact is a valk with any config gets torn apart by an AGT prom. It's such a big target for the agt and when u add a third weapon (especially a flare) the valk looses its ability to even remotly dodge the AGT. So maybe fixing the AGT and Cents while leaving the valk the same might make it more balanced.

Ghost, the Valk looses the ability to dodge AGT from the SCP or the MkIII. look at the other ships out there that rely on the AGT, look at a Hog, a Ragnarok or an Axia Wraith. suddenly the AGT is fully dodageable in a Valk with three ports in use. I do so all the time. the worst AGT-ship after the current proms is IMHO the Atlas, since it's so hard to get a track on when it rolls at you from 25m.

and please, don't use the top two proms as a reference for balance, they aren't. the same goes for the rev c / IBGs these days. and keep in mind that the Prom MkIII is closer agility wise to the SCP than the Rev C is to the IBG. we're talking about four ships that outclass everything, and two of those that even still are a head above their brothers.

the reason I'll make due with the current speed of the rev c / IBG is if they have 5000 armor, one slipup into flare-/rocket-land will cut you off hard. not to mention a bad experience with a mine. all you'll need with ~5K armor is 8 hits with a neut, or 6 hits with a posi. yes, good pilots will be hard to hit, and therefore kill, but not much is going to change that in a light fighter.

if the IBG and rev c are still too good after this, we can gently down their thrust if it's needed.

You know, perhaps we need to start discussing medium ports again.

Make the GT a medium port wep, make the hog have a small and a medium. Make the Prom have 2 small and 1 large

Ha-hey! Way to take the discussion from the level of "unrealistic" and drag it all the way up to the "haha, that's funny" level!
Now THAT takes skill.

On topic comment:
Cents are hard to hit. A bit harder to hit than they used to be.
That's about all I can say on the subject, since I've not actually flown a modern cent.

Prommies, on the other hand, have been the topic of whining competitions for quite a while now, so I've had a chance to use the opinions of others to clump together my own. This opinion thinks that you people keep overlooking a fairly obvious "solution" (in quotes because I'm really not sure about whether or not there is a problem to be solved.)

Why not make them bigger? Not the mass, but the actual model. The damn thing will now turn slower and be a hittable target. Wheee.

Boring.