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so i bought a mac mini thikning "wow this little machine is great! vendetta gameplay should be awesome compared to my beige g3!"
and yet the beige seems to out shine it, but just barely.
mac mini: 1.24ghz g4 with 256megs of ram, and radeon 9200 with 32megs vram.
beige: 1ghz powerlogix g3, 786 megs of ram with radeon 7000 32megs vram.
aside from the ram (yes i know the minimum is 384) the machines are comparable. yet the mini jumps whenever a new object is introduced, like explosions, weapons, ect.
so my question is, are there any other mini owners who have more ram? if so, are you experiencing similar problems?
work in game is the imac g5 has similar problems when the ram is a bit too low. evidence seems to point to ram, but considering i was playing vendetta on a g3/300 for a few months without any annoying issues, i would assume the extra processing power would counteract the lack of ram. though i am probably wrong.
anyway, thanks for reading!
and yet the beige seems to out shine it, but just barely.
mac mini: 1.24ghz g4 with 256megs of ram, and radeon 9200 with 32megs vram.
beige: 1ghz powerlogix g3, 786 megs of ram with radeon 7000 32megs vram.
aside from the ram (yes i know the minimum is 384) the machines are comparable. yet the mini jumps whenever a new object is introduced, like explosions, weapons, ect.
so my question is, are there any other mini owners who have more ram? if so, are you experiencing similar problems?
work in game is the imac g5 has similar problems when the ram is a bit too low. evidence seems to point to ram, but considering i was playing vendetta on a g3/300 for a few months without any annoying issues, i would assume the extra processing power would counteract the lack of ram. though i am probably wrong.
anyway, thanks for reading!
Every test I've seen shows huge performance increases across the board (up to 200%) from going to 512MB RAM. RAM is far, far more important than processor speed.
yep your wrong :P - RAM is used to store the game data for quick processing and if it needs to swap a significant amounts due to lack of space then you are bound to get jumps, especially if it's in the middle of play - thats if the game runs at all!
When Game devs say minimum requirements they really do mean the bare min...
I mean it's not like anyone is going to run Mac OS X on a Centris??? I mean that would take at least a week to boot! Not to mention the jumps in VO :P
http://www.appletalk.com.au/articles/68kpanther/
When Game devs say minimum requirements they really do mean the bare min...
I mean it's not like anyone is going to run Mac OS X on a Centris??? I mean that would take at least a week to boot! Not to mention the jumps in VO :P
http://www.appletalk.com.au/articles/68kpanther/
devs say the mac minimum cpu is a 1ghz clock speed, considering it was running on a 300mgz processor i was hoping the ram rule would bend too :)
in any case, looks like my next purchase is more ram... ipod will have to wait :/
in any case, looks like my next purchase is more ram... ipod will have to wait :/
I have a 1.42ghz with 512mb mini being shipped right now. i'll tell you how it performs in VO when I get it running. Though I think i'll stick with my room mate's PC for gaming. I'll seriously only use it for games... cause it SUCKS at everything else.. I cannot produce music or anything creative with the PC for beans.. it's awefull, not to mention, everyday there's some new random crap showing up in the task manager. that never happens with a mac...
still I can use the full scene glow on the PC... I can't on a mac. not even a G5...
still I can use the full scene glow on the PC... I can't on a mac. not even a G5...
apex, funny you should mention full screen glow effects. i began tweaking my graphics on the mini for fun. i found a happy medium between what i want it to look like and what it wanted to run. and when i got there i flipped on doshaders for fun because i never tried it before. after reopening vendetta i turned on glow effects and BAM!! full screen glow! :D
i was plesantly suprised by this. not only to i get vendetta to run how i am used to it running, but also got the glow for the first time. while it sometimes jumps when a new video artifact is introduced, it is not as bad as it was before. it gets a little jumpy when leaving stations but it is not all that bad.
anyway, try that out and let me know what happens
i was plesantly suprised by this. not only to i get vendetta to run how i am used to it running, but also got the glow for the first time. while it sometimes jumps when a new video artifact is introduced, it is not as bad as it was before. it gets a little jumpy when leaving stations but it is not all that bad.
anyway, try that out and let me know what happens
RAM really does make a world of a difference.
I got a Mini (yay!!!) w/ 256 MB RAM. Yes, 512 helps, but it's not like the machine is crippled with 256....and it seems to play VO just fine. Some stuttering here and there, but I'm sure extra RAM will clear that up.
Now just to save up money for that next RAM chip... :)
--mcn
Now just to save up money for that next RAM chip... :)
--mcn
See if lowering texture resolution quality by one notch helps the stuttering. I would like to know.
ray, do you mean to choose high (32meg) in video settings and only throttle back the texture resolutions? what of do shaders and glow? :)
Yeah, just change texture resolutions and not change anything else. Textures are the main cause of stuttering due to the way macs handle video memory.
My 1.42GHz mini with half a gig of ram studders at 160fps (lol) on medium texture detail.
other than the annoying studdering, it works super smooth.
I noticed very similar effects on a game called Stepmania. It ran at above 100fps most of the time, but studdered very frequently. I remedied it by turning Vsync ON. With Vsync on it hardly studders at all. we can't do that in VO, I wonder if it's possible so we can give it a try?
other than the annoying studdering, it works super smooth.
I noticed very similar effects on a game called Stepmania. It ran at above 100fps most of the time, but studdered very frequently. I remedied it by turning Vsync ON. With Vsync on it hardly studders at all. we can't do that in VO, I wonder if it's possible so we can give it a try?
Actually, you can edit the config.ini file to enable vsync, I think.
add
vbl=1
to the [refgl] section in the config.ini file.
Let me know if this works.
Also, if VO chooses a refresh-rate that is too low (ie. 60Hz) you can change def_freq=0 to something like def_freq=70
add
vbl=1
to the [refgl] section in the config.ini file.
Let me know if this works.
Also, if VO chooses a refresh-rate that is too low (ie. 60Hz) you can change def_freq=0 to something like def_freq=70
You should really give an option to put vsync on in the normal config menu. I've found that a lot of LCDs need vsync.
Will vsync help my ati 9200 with 32megs of ram? Also, this bring up something, will VO ever be able to be optimized on the mac? Or will maybe tiger(10.4) fix some of the graphics issues.
so i dropped texture resolution down to high and average 100fps unless a station is involved. when stations are introduced it drops to 9fps, but that is no big deal to me.
after logging in and leaving a station i still get jumps when i first fire my weapons, when i first change sectors or use wormholes, or when someone else jumps sectors or uses a wormhole. after those actions have taken place the jumps become less frequent and are sometimes accompanied by a single hard drive click. so then i would imagine my problem stemps from my lack of ram and this slow 4200rpm drive apple put in these macs. does that sound about right guys?
after logging in and leaving a station i still get jumps when i first fire my weapons, when i first change sectors or use wormholes, or when someone else jumps sectors or uses a wormhole. after those actions have taken place the jumps become less frequent and are sometimes accompanied by a single hard drive click. so then i would imagine my problem stemps from my lack of ram and this slow 4200rpm drive apple put in these macs. does that sound about right guys?
I made the change you asked me to try, Raybondo. the report:
Vast improvement!!!
WOW! hardly any studdering with that added in. There could be some other factor involved, but I get consistantly very high framerates with minimal studdering only in station sectors. Definitely add the ability to turn Vsync on and off into the next version.
Vast improvement!!!
WOW! hardly any studdering with that added in. There could be some other factor involved, but I get consistantly very high framerates with minimal studdering only in station sectors. Definitely add the ability to turn Vsync on and off into the next version.
Just in case anybody wants to know (and doesn't already--if you do, ignore this post): VSync helps the stuttering because it locks the screen updates to the vertical refresh rate (VSync stands for Vertical Sync). So for example, if your monitor is set to 75hz and you usually get around 100 fps, then it'll clamp down to 75 fps. The reason this helps with stuttering is because you are no longer seeing the dips to 90 fps or 80 fps--it's ALWAYS at 75 fps. The downside is that if your framerate drops below your monitor refresh (say, in our example, 70 fps), it'll get clamped down to about 1/2 of the refresh rate (in this case, around 35 fps) instead of just staying at the slightly lower rate (the weird behavior is actually due to the amount of time it takes to refresh the screen--not that anybody cares, probably :)
The long and short of it is: if your framerates are normally way higher than your monitor refresh, VSync helps smooth out framerate jumps so it looks "smoother". If you regularly only get 20fps or so, it's not going to help you and in fact will probably make things look worse. Oh, and the difference between VSync and not VSync looks even better on LCDs just because of the technology behind it. Just trust me :)
Just a little dose of FYI for anybody who wanted to know :)
--mcn
p.s. odd little side effect--any framerate above your monitor refresh rate isn't actually *visible*, not in the way you think at least. Think about it this way: your monitor, at 75hz, only displays an image every 1/75th of a second--even if your framerate is 120 fps. The higher framerate just means you end up seeing part of every frame, instead of the full frame--which is why in some rare cases you can see what is called a "tearing" effect. VSync also eliminates this as well, which is why many think it looks far nicer--providing your framerate was high enough to start with :)
The long and short of it is: if your framerates are normally way higher than your monitor refresh, VSync helps smooth out framerate jumps so it looks "smoother". If you regularly only get 20fps or so, it's not going to help you and in fact will probably make things look worse. Oh, and the difference between VSync and not VSync looks even better on LCDs just because of the technology behind it. Just trust me :)
Just a little dose of FYI for anybody who wanted to know :)
--mcn
p.s. odd little side effect--any framerate above your monitor refresh rate isn't actually *visible*, not in the way you think at least. Think about it this way: your monitor, at 75hz, only displays an image every 1/75th of a second--even if your framerate is 120 fps. The higher framerate just means you end up seeing part of every frame, instead of the full frame--which is why in some rare cases you can see what is called a "tearing" effect. VSync also eliminates this as well, which is why many think it looks far nicer--providing your framerate was high enough to start with :)
Yep, but unfortunately there's no way to say 'sync to refresh rate if framerate is higher but ignore vsync if framerate is lower."
Actually, I wonder how fast it is to switch between vsync and non-vsync modes in the opengl context. If it is extremely fast, I suppose i could turn it off/on every frame if the framerate dips below/above the refresh rate.
I added VSync and Texture Compression options to Vendetta Online for the mac, so you can easily change these settings.
Actually, I wonder how fast it is to switch between vsync and non-vsync modes in the opengl context. If it is extremely fast, I suppose i could turn it off/on every frame if the framerate dips below/above the refresh rate.
I added VSync and Texture Compression options to Vendetta Online for the mac, so you can easily change these settings.
"I added VSync and Texture Compression options to Vendetta Online for the mac, so you can easily change these settings."
*salivates*
ok, not that bad, but thank you!!! :)
Actually, the VSync switch would be a *VERY* interesting test...I never even thought of doing it that way...hardware wise, it should be trivial, b/c all you're doing is listening for vertical blank and *then* flipping vs. not waiting and just flipping whenever the hell you feel like it...whether the drivers are that smart, I dunno, but that would be a cool test...
Would it be that hard to code up some quick switch to just turn on VSync above a hardcoded limit (75hz), and then work on detecting a good limit later? Y'know, just as a test...
-givepizza devs 2large
--mcn
*salivates*
ok, not that bad, but thank you!!! :)
Actually, the VSync switch would be a *VERY* interesting test...I never even thought of doing it that way...hardware wise, it should be trivial, b/c all you're doing is listening for vertical blank and *then* flipping vs. not waiting and just flipping whenever the hell you feel like it...whether the drivers are that smart, I dunno, but that would be a cool test...
Would it be that hard to code up some quick switch to just turn on VSync above a hardcoded limit (75hz), and then work on detecting a good limit later? Y'know, just as a test...
-givepizza devs 2large
--mcn