I looked at the G5 i would like to aquire.. $3000. that's my entire computer budget. I would still need a monier, keyboard, mouse, and new printer after that.

So for now the idea of getting a G5 is out of the question, and i will not settle for an outdated G4. any idea when apple will drop the prices?

Apple usually updates products every half year (6 months). Some people are thinking they will not announce updates until they hit 3.0 ghz. Usually before updates of this nature (big speed bumps, graphic card changes, etc.) there are discounts on that product.

So, you could take the discounts when they arrive, or you could get the updated low end model.

(updated to g5 on 6/03, single 1.8 ghz upgraded to dual on 11/03)

Two words: Education Discount.

For a little above $1700, I could get...

1.6GHz G5
17" CRT Monitor
512MB RAM
80GB HD
Combo Drive
FX 5200 Ultra (or Radeon 9600 +$45)

That's a pretty good gaming system for the Mac. I was JUST about to get this setup but due to college and having to travel a lot I opted to get a 1GHz 12-inch PowerBook instead. I paid about the same price too. Ahh well.

Even without an education discount, BTO the hell out of everything in the online Apple Store. Here are some money-saving tips...

1) Knock that SuperDrive down to a Combo Drive and you'll save yourself $180. Contrary to popular belief, the Combo Drive actually burns CDs quicker than the SuperDrive (read the tech specs).

2) You can save an additional $26 if you know you won't be needing a built-in 56k modem. $26 may not sound a lot, but when you see how much sales tax they charge with the final cost you'll want every penny you can get.

3) The CRT monitors Apple offers is dirt cheap, so I'd go for that instead of the expensive Cinema Displays. I've owned a few Mitsubishi monitors before and they seem to have very good quality as well as longevity.

4) And lastly, unless you can't install memory by yourself, don't include additional memory with your online order. Apple's memory is extremely overpriced. Try other places like crucial.com for cheaper prices.

There you have it. Good luck with your purchase.

One thing about the Apple RAM:

I always get AppleCare with a my computers--no hometown shop is going to service it for me, and opening up the case even ONCE at an Apple Store or CompUSA is going to cost more then the warranty (and there's an education discount on that, too). The prices are a bit higher for Apple RAM, but it's covered under the warranty, and bad RAM is the numero-uno cause of system problems (I've sent half my RAM orders from Crucial back to them, and half of THAT was right out of the box). Parts is parts, but if I'm bringing my computer in for service, I don't want them handing me a static bag with a lonely RAM chip in there and saying "Here's the problem, here's the bill, now you have to send the piece back to Crucial for your lifetime warranty and wait a week for them to get the replacement back to you, and by the way, your G5 won't run without the RAM installed in pairs."

Even if you aren't in an educational system, find someone who is. You'll save a fortune (thats what I did with my last comp)

I'm thinking about a new G5 too, the exchange rate is mint at the moment so everything is getting really cheap. What once cost 8k now costs 6k...

Don't know about suggesting a CRT Arolte, LCDs are the business. I hate going to work and looking at a CRT all day after spending time with my LCD...

CRTs are actually better for gaming. You don't get tearing and you're not forced to play at the native resolution in order to get good graphics.

Arolte, the 17" has enough resolutions for gaming (640x480, 800x600, 1024x768). For some reasons, certain games work higher, too.

What I got:
1.8 GHz G5 (single)
512 MB RAM
Combo
Bluetooth
Airport
Radeon 9600
160 GB HD
17" Flat Panel

If you were going for that now (the 1.8 DP), it's around $3100. It's fine for games (haven't yet tried Halo, but UT2K3 runs fine maxed out) and Photoshop (excellent, fore PS, actually). I later added a gig of memory in (going to add another soon).

But seriously, for casual gaming, the iMac is fine. It's much cheaper. I'm now kicking myself that I didn't get the 9800 Pro, which off the shelf is $389. But for casual gaming, the iMac is fine.

Well, i am after the dual 2 GHz and 20" LCD apple flat panel. Even with student discount, the price for my prefered setup comes to $3800.

oh, i'm not waiting for better to come out, i just want the duel G5s. I wont need any more power than that for any forseeable reason.

Hell, i may settle for the lowest end setup, but it doesn't seem to great.

You can either afford it or you can't. There's no use dreaming over a setup that you can't afford. There'll almost always have to be some compromise, especially when buying something as expensive as Apple computers. The way I see it, any G5 system is better than the G4s that are offered. Put a Radeon 9800 in it and you've got yourself a gaming rig that'll last you a good two or three years.

I've played the waiting game before and it's not fun. I so wanted to buy the 867MHz 12-inch PowerBook, but only until after three months I was finally able to place an order on a newly released 1GHz model. Was all that waiting torturous? Hell yes. I could've spent all those days playing Vendetta instead of staring at the blank walls of my dorm. Nevertheless, it was nothing more than a mere speed bump and a graphics card update.

Point being, there'll always be something better out. When something finally becomes cheaper, something newer and even better comes up, which you'll want to have even MORE. And maybe then you'll want that newer thing to become cheaper, resulting in yet another new product some several months down the road. And thus the cycle continues. My advice, just get what you can afford and try to get as much of the features as you need.

Sam, what are you going to use a dual G5 for?

I would suggest that you go find a 1.42 DP G4 (faster than the 1.8 G5) and drop a nice grfx card in it. That will scream. Also, a 20" is just out of your price range for a student--you'll never be able to afford it. The 17" is ~$600 and is very, very nice (I have it).

Err... 1.42 DP G4 can outperform a 1.8 G5? Maybe for applications that support dual processors, but for everything else the G5 will still kick its ass. It's a pretty safe assumption that Sam will most likely use his PowerMac for gaming. Unfortunately there's only about one or two games out there that even bother to utilize the second processor--Quake 3 and possibly UT 2003 (unconfirmed). That's it! As for other applications, you may get Photoshop to yield better benchmarks and you may speed up everyday OS X tasks a bit, but two processors doesn't do a whole lot of good if the majority of applications don't even support it.

It's my feeling that Apple has simply used dual processors as a gimmick to cover up for their lack of processor speed. True, it may have professional applications such as mathematical/scientific calculations and for graphic designers who want to shave every second from Photoshop, but anything else is pretty much a crapshoot. You'll be stuck with ths idle second processor more than half the time.

Silly sircamps! They updated the 1.8 GHz g5 to dual!

Hmm, I was wrong, the 1.8 does outperform the 1.42 in almost every test. However, the 1.42 beats out the 1.8 in Cinema 4D XL (G5's 3:04 to G4's 2:41) and MPEG 2 Encoding (G5's 8:32 to G4's 7:34). The G5 is one second faster in iMovie, and tied the G4 for iTunes encoding.

Check out <http://www.macworld.com/2003/09/reviews/macworldlabfirstg5testresults/>

In Quake III, here are the results:

2 GHz G5 292.6 FPS
1.8 GHz G5 139.3 FPS
1.6 GHz G5 125.4 FPS
1.42 GHz G4 135.9 FPS
1 GHz PB G4 75.9 FPS

A note about the tests: The 1.8 was the single processor when MacWorld did the tests, and all systems were running 10.2.7, so the G5 probably will pick up speed in every test. Notice, that the top G5's framerates in Quake were astronomical! That is thanks to the Radeon 9800 pro they put in it. It had 128 MB when they tested, but now ATI has a 256 MB version out.

They really ought to find a new game for benchmarking 3D performance. Practically ever new Mac yields at least 60 FPS. When you reach numbers that are in the hundreds, you know it's time to move on and find another benchmark game. UT2K3 isn't recommended, since its performance on the PC is nearly doubled when compared to a Mac of comparable specs. I'm not quite sure why, maybe it's the because DirectX was coded better than OpenGL for the game.

It's because UT2K3 was optimized for neither the G4 nor G5. When it is re-worked (I heard UT2K4 is going to be), the framerates will shoot up.

I've read reports that say UT2K4 runs around the same framerates as UT2K3. If anything it should run slower, due to higher poly counts as well as larger scale maps. The only thing I've heard which is being reworked is the netcode. If it's true that UT2K4 will run better, then I'll want a frickin' update to bring my copy of UT2K3 back up to speed. It's sad how my roommate's 2GHz P4 with a GeForce 3 can outperform my 1 GHz G4 with an FX Go5200. He's pushing at least 60 FPS average with maxed settings @ 800x600. I'm barely getting 35 FPS average @ 640x480!

3000$ is enough. Get a Dual 1.8 Ghz G5, mouse and keyboard included, maybe around 2200$. Then you have 800$ for a screen.

But I would wait for revision B! That will push speeds and drop prices of "old" G5 models a lot. It is now May, at latest in June new models will be announced! And the last update was may 2003 (for the top model), it was just brought the Dual 1.8 as addition in November, which is the best choose now, but already outdated for that price.

greets,
Stüpfnick

WWDC anoucement of 10.4 'Tiger' coming in late june early july.

Arolte wrote:
It's my feeling that Apple has simply used dual processors as a gimmick to cover up for their lack of processor speed.


Then you haven't used one. As someone who'se used both single and dual CPU Macs of various speeds, I can say that I would never buy a single CPU if a dual was available. I'd even buy a slower dual.

Mac OS X feels _much much_ snappier on a dual CPU machine.

That said, this thread started with someone looking for a cheap G5. If you know an Apple Employee, they're having an employee promotion with a single CPU 1.6GHz G5 system for $1200.