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I wasn't sure if PhoenixHawk was being serious or if it was some sort of April Fools' Day joke. So I tried to not sound like I was flaming him, just in case it was a joke.
But in any rate, you could make the same arguments against Star Wars, Star Trek, Battlestar Galactica, Andromeda, and any other sci-fi movie, TV show, or game set in space.
What it boils down to, are dramatic decisions made to create a specific atmosphere. As long as those decisions can be defended, they're usually good decisions.
But in any rate, you could make the same arguments against Star Wars, Star Trek, Battlestar Galactica, Andromeda, and any other sci-fi movie, TV show, or game set in space.
What it boils down to, are dramatic decisions made to create a specific atmosphere. As long as those decisions can be defended, they're usually good decisions.
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"I see the kind of responses you guys are making a lot when going through posts in these forums. All these people jumping in to defend odd things or to say oh I'm sure the devs know exactly what they are doing so STFU"
Suprisingly YOUR post didn't get that kind of severe negative response, which shows amazing restraint given the tone of your initial post in this thread. This is overall a good, helpful community.
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This is a very small community, seemingly so small it barely fits the concept of community and if they want to dish out money hoping against hope to get something in return at some unknown date in the future despite past and current troubles plaguing the project which would lead a rational individual to believe otherwise then that's their call. It was three years in the making before it's "release" and that wasn't even a release level product as you just confirmed and now it's five months latter and it's still very lacking. Before I thought those silly matters laughable (as in what the hell where they smoking kind of way) but now that I know they put an unfinished project out to the public selling it off as a completed project with new content *additions* coming in the future due to their in ability to follow a proper business model my faith in the project is sitting pretty low. As for restraint, I'm showing restraint here as this whole matter, especially after you confirmed it all is just very deserving of a long brutal rant. You don't release a pre-release product and say: "Hey, it's release ready (not really but we won't come out and say that publicly), give us money."
Then comparing this to Star Wars, Star Trek and the like is laughable in itself. When watching any of those things for the first time when it was first released did we actually see some guys holding little models hanging on wires up from behind a curtain or grossly unfinished computer graphics, no, they WERE completed projects when released as a completed project to the public, this most certainly is not. Defined, good decisions, right now it's a FPS set in space with about 20-70 playing at any given time, not a MMORPG and it's taken over three years working on four to get that far. They may have had good ideas to start it all but the process they employed to give breath to that new life was so flawed that it's still a lifeless hunk of clay that needs to be properly moulded before it dries out as you can only keep adding a bit of water to keep it pliable for so long.
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"Gamma testers, yep that works. You guys are paying gamma testers."
That's really not a revelation. Many of us who have been with Vendetta since early on ASKED for this so that things would continue.
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Oh so then the way the site makes it sound and even calls it a completed game you can play with thousands of others and that they after release are only adding extra content on to it is a long series of typos then is it? What they really meant to say is: "Oh crap, hey guys we ran out of money again. You want to start paying to test the game out from now on? You do? How generous of you. Lets open that up to the public now too, just don't tell them it really is still a test game till we have some of their money though." Then while you guys may have asked for it, those that followed and quite possibly wasted money on a project that really may never see a release level product out of it considering past and current events thinking it was *already* a release level product did not ask for it (thank God I'm not either of them). The site paints one albeit hazy picture, the game then throws paint thinner on it and kills much of it once you've played a while.
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"My guess is that the game was released early as they were running low on capital again (the project almost ended in late 2003 due to lack of funds) so hoped to release what they had then try to use the subscription revenue to pay for the server upkeep and continued development"...
That's not a "guess". Those are details that are a matter of record.
<
And aside from maybe going through many pages of forum messages I would find this a matter of record where exactly? There are Q&A in the FAQ that make it sound unfinished but you see left over Q&A from the testing days like that in the FAQs of other completed projects too so I just chalked it up as that when looking at it the first time before playing. At the same time though there is at least one FAQ answer specifically calling VO a finished product. Recently I poked through various "Guild Software" search results from Google to dig up an article talking about something other than the released game which ended up dealing with the less than happy times for them and their VO project back in late 2003 but you talk as if anyone and everyone knows this as soon as they look at the main page and how of course it's a pay to use gamma version, not a completed title they are just updating like other popular MMORPGs are upon release. They sell the work in progress aspect the same way every MMORPG does, that they will always be adding to it, not that this *is* still largely incomplete and will be x number of months/years yet before it is an actual release level product but they want us to pay for it in the meantime since they ran low on funds again. Thank-you no, I'll pass. I mean it's one thing to invest in a company so they can proceed, there you should get a return later on so long as they don't fold first, here we're just supposed to give them money so they can continue development and we have access to what really is still a pre-release product. Usually a game does not enter wide public or private testing until it is nearing release ready and they are just working the bugs out, checking balancing and testing the servers ability to hand a large player load, not while it's still in the main development cycle with many components incomplete and little to no game content. Their game release cycle was flawed which only added to the time and costs involved. Then in any review I've read on the game they all sound like they think this is supposed to be a completed project, most call it a game that still seems to have little real content and some came right out and said forget it, spend your money elsewhere while the odd few liked what they saw but none I read said this is actually an incomplete game released early due to lack of funding and is now a pay to use pre-release game that entered the open and continual testing phase long before it should have. Entering the open test phase so early helped create more buzz which was likely what they were after but in doing so and maintaining it they then had to maintain a server system and pay for it's up keep, squash bugs on things that later on could very well get scrapped or changed any how and all this take away from their continuing the creation cycle. So in effect this cool long open testing period that had gone on I don't know how long over all three release targets effectively delayed the project and added to it's costs quite a bit.
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..."or that completion was taking longer than Strategy First expected and wanted (they came in around late 2003 which helped bail them out) so pushed them to release before it was really complete or a combination of the two."
That's incorrect. SF has the resources to roll out a boxed product with the usual embellishments and get it to the stores. That's why Guild worked with them. Guild owns Vendetta and makes all the decisions.
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In the article I read it said they got private sector funds back in late 2003 to keep on going and teamed up with SF. That would make one think SF was likely a part of that funding and quite possibly a big part. So then after more than a year after bailing them out and then after reporting VO will be released in the summer of 2004 when it instead came out in the winter of 2004 one would thing SF was getting rather antsy and concerned about by the time Nov 2004 came along as to when or if they'll ever see a return on their investment. So you can see how my reasoning fits the profile of a company saying make some money to pay us back now or close up and forget about it so we can sell of any assets you have to return our investment.
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"Whatever the case with player counts that low, getting lower and who knows how many of those just trial users as well as how their team is still just four guys one is forced to wonder how well things are going."
Guild knows how many users are just trial users. Things are going well enough to keep the lights on, the doors open, and the coffee hot.
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I certainly hope they know how many are test users but I was thinking more along the lines of an "I don't know how many" concept expanded to the general public of the forums there. Then while things may be ok today the questions are how long can that last and how long do they need it to last? The situation they have put themselves in is not a good one and as it is now, five months after it's "release" with still no real content, a weak interface and many other things still not in place and their now needing to implement all changes to all targets simultaneously things will only get worse for them so unless they start rolling out huge improvements fast it may be till 2006 or dare I say it, 2007 before it's release level and by that time no one may care or so few will that they may as well have packed it up and done something else before then. The market is a well spring but what they are doing now may in effect poison it.
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"... they should relaunch the title as an expansion once or if they finally get it all polished up as a cattle call to the game review sites and mags to look at it again thereby creating some free publicity that really is exactly what you're doing, gamma testing the future rerelease of VO."
That's pretty much the plan. The lack of any significant advertising is deliberate. They need enough income to keep development cruising along. If there was a need for more subscriptions they'd direct more attention to getting the word out. Things are fine.
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This is the kind of upbeat kind of "they know what they're doing so don't worry" kind of response I was talking about earlier. The fact, this is their *first* real game, their *first* project as a business and that they are even in the kind of situation they are in now, again, with still just the four main members working and still ridiculously trying to do a three target release all at once with not just extra content but new game functions aplenty left to add that can't be simply inserted it shows quite well that they in fact do not know what they are doing and that there is ample reason to worry. They seem to be playing it by ear coming up with solutions to today's problems while hoping like hell they can get this done before they all go bankrupt and that there is a pot of gold at the end of the muddy looking rainbow they are sitting on. This game looks like they are going for something similar to Jumpgate but that's not doing that well either, they better have some magic stored up someplace or else the outlook seems grim.
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Now then, here you guys are, it's likely around four years in the making and face it, it's *still* far from done but yet you defend it with vigour. The graphics are called dated today, just imagine what they will be called when it is completed in the one to two years it seems like it will take at the rate they are going and considering they have to maintain a working client over three targets all the while, I'm thinking by that time the graphics will be called antiquated to archaic unless they do a near total graphics overhaul which will only further delay completion. Yes a game should not be based on its graphics but its game play but the fact of the matter is that many do and solid eye popping graphics, a well known business name or product line behind it are what draw people to a game since they can't just look at a box and say, "gee that was fun, I want to try it some more." I really have my doubts that this will ever see release level completion considering all the money issues they have, the tiny team, the lofty goals of a three target simultaneous release and maintenance and wonder how much longer it will be before those of you still defending it with veal and passion will be doing so before you're cursing the name Vendetta Online and wishing you never sunk all that money into it or for that matter how long they will be able to keep it around for you to defend. It's possible I may eat those words but looking on four years of history and what it has given us seem to say otherwise.
"I see the kind of responses you guys are making a lot when going through posts in these forums. All these people jumping in to defend odd things or to say oh I'm sure the devs know exactly what they are doing so STFU"
Suprisingly YOUR post didn't get that kind of severe negative response, which shows amazing restraint given the tone of your initial post in this thread. This is overall a good, helpful community.
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This is a very small community, seemingly so small it barely fits the concept of community and if they want to dish out money hoping against hope to get something in return at some unknown date in the future despite past and current troubles plaguing the project which would lead a rational individual to believe otherwise then that's their call. It was three years in the making before it's "release" and that wasn't even a release level product as you just confirmed and now it's five months latter and it's still very lacking. Before I thought those silly matters laughable (as in what the hell where they smoking kind of way) but now that I know they put an unfinished project out to the public selling it off as a completed project with new content *additions* coming in the future due to their in ability to follow a proper business model my faith in the project is sitting pretty low. As for restraint, I'm showing restraint here as this whole matter, especially after you confirmed it all is just very deserving of a long brutal rant. You don't release a pre-release product and say: "Hey, it's release ready (not really but we won't come out and say that publicly), give us money."
Then comparing this to Star Wars, Star Trek and the like is laughable in itself. When watching any of those things for the first time when it was first released did we actually see some guys holding little models hanging on wires up from behind a curtain or grossly unfinished computer graphics, no, they WERE completed projects when released as a completed project to the public, this most certainly is not. Defined, good decisions, right now it's a FPS set in space with about 20-70 playing at any given time, not a MMORPG and it's taken over three years working on four to get that far. They may have had good ideas to start it all but the process they employed to give breath to that new life was so flawed that it's still a lifeless hunk of clay that needs to be properly moulded before it dries out as you can only keep adding a bit of water to keep it pliable for so long.
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"Gamma testers, yep that works. You guys are paying gamma testers."
That's really not a revelation. Many of us who have been with Vendetta since early on ASKED for this so that things would continue.
<
Oh so then the way the site makes it sound and even calls it a completed game you can play with thousands of others and that they after release are only adding extra content on to it is a long series of typos then is it? What they really meant to say is: "Oh crap, hey guys we ran out of money again. You want to start paying to test the game out from now on? You do? How generous of you. Lets open that up to the public now too, just don't tell them it really is still a test game till we have some of their money though." Then while you guys may have asked for it, those that followed and quite possibly wasted money on a project that really may never see a release level product out of it considering past and current events thinking it was *already* a release level product did not ask for it (thank God I'm not either of them). The site paints one albeit hazy picture, the game then throws paint thinner on it and kills much of it once you've played a while.
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"My guess is that the game was released early as they were running low on capital again (the project almost ended in late 2003 due to lack of funds) so hoped to release what they had then try to use the subscription revenue to pay for the server upkeep and continued development"...
That's not a "guess". Those are details that are a matter of record.
<
And aside from maybe going through many pages of forum messages I would find this a matter of record where exactly? There are Q&A in the FAQ that make it sound unfinished but you see left over Q&A from the testing days like that in the FAQs of other completed projects too so I just chalked it up as that when looking at it the first time before playing. At the same time though there is at least one FAQ answer specifically calling VO a finished product. Recently I poked through various "Guild Software" search results from Google to dig up an article talking about something other than the released game which ended up dealing with the less than happy times for them and their VO project back in late 2003 but you talk as if anyone and everyone knows this as soon as they look at the main page and how of course it's a pay to use gamma version, not a completed title they are just updating like other popular MMORPGs are upon release. They sell the work in progress aspect the same way every MMORPG does, that they will always be adding to it, not that this *is* still largely incomplete and will be x number of months/years yet before it is an actual release level product but they want us to pay for it in the meantime since they ran low on funds again. Thank-you no, I'll pass. I mean it's one thing to invest in a company so they can proceed, there you should get a return later on so long as they don't fold first, here we're just supposed to give them money so they can continue development and we have access to what really is still a pre-release product. Usually a game does not enter wide public or private testing until it is nearing release ready and they are just working the bugs out, checking balancing and testing the servers ability to hand a large player load, not while it's still in the main development cycle with many components incomplete and little to no game content. Their game release cycle was flawed which only added to the time and costs involved. Then in any review I've read on the game they all sound like they think this is supposed to be a completed project, most call it a game that still seems to have little real content and some came right out and said forget it, spend your money elsewhere while the odd few liked what they saw but none I read said this is actually an incomplete game released early due to lack of funding and is now a pay to use pre-release game that entered the open and continual testing phase long before it should have. Entering the open test phase so early helped create more buzz which was likely what they were after but in doing so and maintaining it they then had to maintain a server system and pay for it's up keep, squash bugs on things that later on could very well get scrapped or changed any how and all this take away from their continuing the creation cycle. So in effect this cool long open testing period that had gone on I don't know how long over all three release targets effectively delayed the project and added to it's costs quite a bit.
.
>
..."or that completion was taking longer than Strategy First expected and wanted (they came in around late 2003 which helped bail them out) so pushed them to release before it was really complete or a combination of the two."
That's incorrect. SF has the resources to roll out a boxed product with the usual embellishments and get it to the stores. That's why Guild worked with them. Guild owns Vendetta and makes all the decisions.
<
In the article I read it said they got private sector funds back in late 2003 to keep on going and teamed up with SF. That would make one think SF was likely a part of that funding and quite possibly a big part. So then after more than a year after bailing them out and then after reporting VO will be released in the summer of 2004 when it instead came out in the winter of 2004 one would thing SF was getting rather antsy and concerned about by the time Nov 2004 came along as to when or if they'll ever see a return on their investment. So you can see how my reasoning fits the profile of a company saying make some money to pay us back now or close up and forget about it so we can sell of any assets you have to return our investment.
.
>
"Whatever the case with player counts that low, getting lower and who knows how many of those just trial users as well as how their team is still just four guys one is forced to wonder how well things are going."
Guild knows how many users are just trial users. Things are going well enough to keep the lights on, the doors open, and the coffee hot.
<
I certainly hope they know how many are test users but I was thinking more along the lines of an "I don't know how many" concept expanded to the general public of the forums there. Then while things may be ok today the questions are how long can that last and how long do they need it to last? The situation they have put themselves in is not a good one and as it is now, five months after it's "release" with still no real content, a weak interface and many other things still not in place and their now needing to implement all changes to all targets simultaneously things will only get worse for them so unless they start rolling out huge improvements fast it may be till 2006 or dare I say it, 2007 before it's release level and by that time no one may care or so few will that they may as well have packed it up and done something else before then. The market is a well spring but what they are doing now may in effect poison it.
.
>
"... they should relaunch the title as an expansion once or if they finally get it all polished up as a cattle call to the game review sites and mags to look at it again thereby creating some free publicity that really is exactly what you're doing, gamma testing the future rerelease of VO."
That's pretty much the plan. The lack of any significant advertising is deliberate. They need enough income to keep development cruising along. If there was a need for more subscriptions they'd direct more attention to getting the word out. Things are fine.
<
This is the kind of upbeat kind of "they know what they're doing so don't worry" kind of response I was talking about earlier. The fact, this is their *first* real game, their *first* project as a business and that they are even in the kind of situation they are in now, again, with still just the four main members working and still ridiculously trying to do a three target release all at once with not just extra content but new game functions aplenty left to add that can't be simply inserted it shows quite well that they in fact do not know what they are doing and that there is ample reason to worry. They seem to be playing it by ear coming up with solutions to today's problems while hoping like hell they can get this done before they all go bankrupt and that there is a pot of gold at the end of the muddy looking rainbow they are sitting on. This game looks like they are going for something similar to Jumpgate but that's not doing that well either, they better have some magic stored up someplace or else the outlook seems grim.
.
Now then, here you guys are, it's likely around four years in the making and face it, it's *still* far from done but yet you defend it with vigour. The graphics are called dated today, just imagine what they will be called when it is completed in the one to two years it seems like it will take at the rate they are going and considering they have to maintain a working client over three targets all the while, I'm thinking by that time the graphics will be called antiquated to archaic unless they do a near total graphics overhaul which will only further delay completion. Yes a game should not be based on its graphics but its game play but the fact of the matter is that many do and solid eye popping graphics, a well known business name or product line behind it are what draw people to a game since they can't just look at a box and say, "gee that was fun, I want to try it some more." I really have my doubts that this will ever see release level completion considering all the money issues they have, the tiny team, the lofty goals of a three target simultaneous release and maintenance and wonder how much longer it will be before those of you still defending it with veal and passion will be doing so before you're cursing the name Vendetta Online and wishing you never sunk all that money into it or for that matter how long they will be able to keep it around for you to defend. It's possible I may eat those words but looking on four years of history and what it has given us seem to say otherwise.
I'm going to jump in with a simple reply to PhoenixHawk.
If you aren't interested in playing, feel free to go elsewhere and not waste our time with these posts. You aren't bringing up anything that those of us who choose to pay dont allready know and acknowledge.
I for one am very unsure if vendetta will make it long term, that changes nothing. I pay because this engine and this game has huge potential, and compared to the buggy utter crap that the multinational game corps put out its quite well done. Very few bugs and solid network stability. I choose to pay to support a small company that i feel has produced a product with significant chance at success given enough time. Even if it fails >>>I<<< am entertained by it and feel that the money is well spent. If you feel differently, well, no-one is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to be here.
Also, your posts could use a few more paragraph breaks to make ideas a bit easier to read.
Anyhow the fact that this thread is still open is one of the reasons I support guildsoftware... at most company forums for major games (the few major games that even HAVE a forum for feedback) your thread would have been locked because it is highly negative against the product, and you would have had to go to a non-affiliated board to post this kind of discourse.
If you aren't interested in playing, feel free to go elsewhere and not waste our time with these posts. You aren't bringing up anything that those of us who choose to pay dont allready know and acknowledge.
I for one am very unsure if vendetta will make it long term, that changes nothing. I pay because this engine and this game has huge potential, and compared to the buggy utter crap that the multinational game corps put out its quite well done. Very few bugs and solid network stability. I choose to pay to support a small company that i feel has produced a product with significant chance at success given enough time. Even if it fails >>>I<<< am entertained by it and feel that the money is well spent. If you feel differently, well, no-one is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to be here.
Also, your posts could use a few more paragraph breaks to make ideas a bit easier to read.
Anyhow the fact that this thread is still open is one of the reasons I support guildsoftware... at most company forums for major games (the few major games that even HAVE a forum for feedback) your thread would have been locked because it is highly negative against the product, and you would have had to go to a non-affiliated board to post this kind of discourse.
Im going to have to agree with Spellcast on this one. Yes, the game is unfinished and unpolished, but that doesnt irk me a bit. It has a great concept to it, and can go very far. It pisses me off to no end sometimes, but I get over it, and choose to support the developers who are busting thier balls off more than likely. That four people can even pull off an entire project of this size (Much less the programming and debugging alone) shows a lot of dedication, and they have been steadily adding content since release. Another rather large development setback I believe is the rather demanding playerbase. We tend to have little patience, and the devs have always been fairly responsive on fixing things we think need attention. Im going to stick it out as long as I can afford it more than likely. At its current stage WE are making all the content, and its true roleplaying, not thousands of people following the same storyline. Who knows, maybe when the game gets ready for primetime, maybe the current playerbase's exploits and sagas will become part of the game in one shape or another.
[EDIT] Ok, I was all cordial and that in my original post, but I need to have at least one cynical asshole statement per post, and here it is.
Let's see EVE do shit with only 4 people.
Bow before the devgods.
[EDIT] Ok, I was all cordial and that in my original post, but I need to have at least one cynical asshole statement per post, and here it is.
Let's see EVE do shit with only 4 people.
Bow before the devgods.
-1 Redundant:
Me too.
-:sigma.SB
Me too.
-:sigma.SB
::sniff:: ::sniff::
Does anyone else smell troll?
For the record, he's still incorrect in his assumptions about the relationship between Guild and SF, and about the other items I addressed. I urge readers to look for the interviews and articles that are published and see the facts for themselves (I'll hunt up the links when I have more than a few minutes), or ask veteran users who were here during alpha.
EDIT: oops, looks like Sarahanne came through with more complete info than the interview I was thinking of. She's Ray's wife, for those who don't know.
Does anyone else smell troll?
For the record, he's still incorrect in his assumptions about the relationship between Guild and SF, and about the other items I addressed. I urge readers to look for the interviews and articles that are published and see the facts for themselves (I'll hunt up the links when I have more than a few minutes), or ask veteran users who were here during alpha.
EDIT: oops, looks like Sarahanne came through with more complete info than the interview I was thinking of. She's Ray's wife, for those who don't know.
Do you really need me to set the record straight?
yes :D
/me dodges sarahannes thrown purse :D
/me dodges sarahannes thrown purse :D
A Short History of the Release of Vendetta Online: As Told by SarahAnne
Jan, 2004 A family member of one of the devs agrees to give some money to the company to help keep the doors open. The employees (aka Devs) are asked what is the minimum amount of pay you need to survive (i.e. can you work for nothing?). Ray starts looking for another job and even starts one but is miserable. I start working extra hours to give Ray a chance to go back to Vendetta full time. Even then the private investment was only a temporary hold to try to give the devs chance to release the game themselves.
June, 2004 SF Decides to publish VO, not purchase, but publish. This means SF helps make the box, poster and manual for the game. They also help get the boxes into stores, because many stores won't take games from an independent producer. I also recall SF sent some additional music for the game and made some Vendetta ads for various websites. Vendetta remains work of Guild Software and only Guild Software. I work a 2nd job over the summer to help pay the bills.
Nov, 2004 Vendetta Online is released. The official release is bumpy due to hurricanes that shut down the box printing plant and delayed the production of the boxes. Who would have thought there'd be so many hurricanes in the South that year? The initial response is interested but doesn't spread like wildfire. However the prospect of subscriptions means the devs can afford to pay rent on the office, ISP, make payments on credit cards that were used to purchase servers and other equipment, maybe even pay themselves. Guild Software is still alive and they start planning the future of Vendetta.
Dec, Jan, Feb, March, April,2005 Vendetta Online is still live. The total number of players doesn't go up much, but there is a constant subscription rate. Ray and other devs continue to work on 'content': ships, widgets, missions, AI, bots, features. You can see the game is progressing: Behemoth, mining asteroids, dueling stats, CtC, Mining Tutorial, Trade Guild Missions, Queen Hunter Badge, MOTD for guilds, The Nemesis (frigate) patrols, enhancements for the message board and so on?
Jan, 2004 A family member of one of the devs agrees to give some money to the company to help keep the doors open. The employees (aka Devs) are asked what is the minimum amount of pay you need to survive (i.e. can you work for nothing?). Ray starts looking for another job and even starts one but is miserable. I start working extra hours to give Ray a chance to go back to Vendetta full time. Even then the private investment was only a temporary hold to try to give the devs chance to release the game themselves.
June, 2004 SF Decides to publish VO, not purchase, but publish. This means SF helps make the box, poster and manual for the game. They also help get the boxes into stores, because many stores won't take games from an independent producer. I also recall SF sent some additional music for the game and made some Vendetta ads for various websites. Vendetta remains work of Guild Software and only Guild Software. I work a 2nd job over the summer to help pay the bills.
Nov, 2004 Vendetta Online is released. The official release is bumpy due to hurricanes that shut down the box printing plant and delayed the production of the boxes. Who would have thought there'd be so many hurricanes in the South that year? The initial response is interested but doesn't spread like wildfire. However the prospect of subscriptions means the devs can afford to pay rent on the office, ISP, make payments on credit cards that were used to purchase servers and other equipment, maybe even pay themselves. Guild Software is still alive and they start planning the future of Vendetta.
Dec, Jan, Feb, March, April,2005 Vendetta Online is still live. The total number of players doesn't go up much, but there is a constant subscription rate. Ray and other devs continue to work on 'content': ships, widgets, missions, AI, bots, features. You can see the game is progressing: Behemoth, mining asteroids, dueling stats, CtC, Mining Tutorial, Trade Guild Missions, Queen Hunter Badge, MOTD for guilds, The Nemesis (frigate) patrols, enhancements for the message board and so on?
Wow after reading that post Sarahanne I REALLY feel like playing VO now.
:)
:)
The devs have really done a lot, the fact that there are only four of them is quite frankly amazing.
I remember hearing one of them say that 90% of programming takes place "behind the scenes" so sometimes its hard for a player to appreciate all the work that goes into creating a single new ship type or feature.
I firmly believe that games don't have to be made by big publishers and huge companies, and I also believe that MMOs are the future of gaming. Vendetta Online is the only game I know of that's privately owned *and* designed as an MMO. It might sound trite, but I play Vendetta Online because I support underground games and I believe in what the devs are trying to do. Twitched-based, multi-platform, massively multiplayer, space trader/combat sim? Hell yes!
....oh, and PheonixHawk, I'm sorry no-one plays *your* MMORPG.
I remember hearing one of them say that 90% of programming takes place "behind the scenes" so sometimes its hard for a player to appreciate all the work that goes into creating a single new ship type or feature.
I firmly believe that games don't have to be made by big publishers and huge companies, and I also believe that MMOs are the future of gaming. Vendetta Online is the only game I know of that's privately owned *and* designed as an MMO. It might sound trite, but I play Vendetta Online because I support underground games and I believe in what the devs are trying to do. Twitched-based, multi-platform, massively multiplayer, space trader/combat sim? Hell yes!
....oh, and PheonixHawk, I'm sorry no-one plays *your* MMORPG.
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I fully agree with PhoenixHawk, and still gladly pay the subscription.
Odd combination, eh?
Odd combination, eh?
Just to pick up on one of phoenixHawk's flames, there is nothing stopping RP in vendetta. The serco-itani conflict encourages it, and the guild structure allows RP group to be formed. A lack of RP on your part does not mean it doesnt exist.
Comparing vendetta to eve is pretty moronic. Eve took seven years to develop, and had the backing of what was a major publisher. Vendetta has been created on a shoestring, and IMO is more impressive as a result. Sure, the models could do with a bit more detail but the range of systems vendetta works on is impressive, as is the lack of lag in large battles (unlike eve).
The biggest advantage vendetta has is that its devs are aware its not finished, unlike eve where new patches take months to come out and rarely fix the things that need changing. You say its too easyto make money in vendetta, have you tried eve recently? PvP is completely broken there, being as it is mainly gank based, unlike the skill based nature of vendetta PvP.
IMO the two things I most miss from eve are the player based economy and the crafting, but both these are features the devs have already said they'd like to include (IIRC).
Comparing vendetta to eve is pretty moronic. Eve took seven years to develop, and had the backing of what was a major publisher. Vendetta has been created on a shoestring, and IMO is more impressive as a result. Sure, the models could do with a bit more detail but the range of systems vendetta works on is impressive, as is the lack of lag in large battles (unlike eve).
The biggest advantage vendetta has is that its devs are aware its not finished, unlike eve where new patches take months to come out and rarely fix the things that need changing. You say its too easyto make money in vendetta, have you tried eve recently? PvP is completely broken there, being as it is mainly gank based, unlike the skill based nature of vendetta PvP.
IMO the two things I most miss from eve are the player based economy and the crafting, but both these are features the devs have already said they'd like to include (IIRC).
I can sympathise with phoenixHawks feelings on this, and allthough I share his sentiments sometimes, I still have a lot of fun in VO, up to a point where it is downright outragously addictive :)
I'll keep supporting this game as long as i'm having fun here, and the way it looks now, it you're gonna see me around here for a very looong time :P
I'll keep supporting this game as long as i'm having fun here, and the way it looks now, it you're gonna see me around here for a very looong time :P
Yeah PheonixHawk seems to be a troll to me.
LEts look at things shall we.
An MMO is never complete it is always expanding. I also don't recall them sayign the game was completed in anyway.
The dev team is small and development isn't going to be extremely fast but hey look at WoW it took them a large amount of time for Battleifeilds. They even admit that they hadn't implemented everyhitng they wanted to before releasing the game.
We are here because we don't care about graphics we are here because of gameplay. If graphics were what we wanted we could play the EVE lag fest (different gameplay though).
LOL of course Star Wars was finished it is a movie. The conmparison was due to sounds and space not content. So WTH are you talking about.
Outdated graphics... Who cares. Lets consider the next generation consoles that will have the cost of an average PC with gams of 70-80 dollars all because of these wonderful graphics. I sure as hell don't intend on sacrificing content for graphics.
I would also like to note that you are obviously not anyone from the game industry as you would realize that games take a large amount of time and 3-4 years is very good for 4 people. Just look at the many other MMO's out there they took a large amount of time and all still have issues. When producing a game the game will appear outdated since the graphics capabilities are from the start time. It costs mroe tiem and money to upgrade those graphics and there really was no point since it was a decent game. Look at Ultima Online it is very popular still. Look at EQ2 compared to EQ EQ has a much higher population even with the lesser graphics.
Yes the game is an FPS in space we all play for that reason. Roleplay is still very possible in this game. If you were actually a paying customer rather than the pathetic geeky troll livign in your parents basement you would have realized that the game is fully capable for roleplaying.
LEts look at things shall we.
An MMO is never complete it is always expanding. I also don't recall them sayign the game was completed in anyway.
The dev team is small and development isn't going to be extremely fast but hey look at WoW it took them a large amount of time for Battleifeilds. They even admit that they hadn't implemented everyhitng they wanted to before releasing the game.
We are here because we don't care about graphics we are here because of gameplay. If graphics were what we wanted we could play the EVE lag fest (different gameplay though).
LOL of course Star Wars was finished it is a movie. The conmparison was due to sounds and space not content. So WTH are you talking about.
Outdated graphics... Who cares. Lets consider the next generation consoles that will have the cost of an average PC with gams of 70-80 dollars all because of these wonderful graphics. I sure as hell don't intend on sacrificing content for graphics.
I would also like to note that you are obviously not anyone from the game industry as you would realize that games take a large amount of time and 3-4 years is very good for 4 people. Just look at the many other MMO's out there they took a large amount of time and all still have issues. When producing a game the game will appear outdated since the graphics capabilities are from the start time. It costs mroe tiem and money to upgrade those graphics and there really was no point since it was a decent game. Look at Ultima Online it is very popular still. Look at EQ2 compared to EQ EQ has a much higher population even with the lesser graphics.
Yes the game is an FPS in space we all play for that reason. Roleplay is still very possible in this game. If you were actually a paying customer rather than the pathetic geeky troll livign in your parents basement you would have realized that the game is fully capable for roleplaying.
And if you all weren't fanbois you'd see that he's exactly right (minus the vitriol), and his reasons are the reason this game has 47 players online while EvE has 4700.
This is a niche-niche-niche game, in a paying beta. I remember when it was "Still a Test" whenever someone pointed out a problem, most of which haven't been addressed. Now it's "I have faith in the devs."
Uh-Huh. Look, I love this game. I don't play very often anymore because I've grown bored with what content exists, but I keep my subscription up (might even be time to resubscribe, gotta check). Paying and having been in the game for a year and a half hasn't blinded me to reality.
The reality is that this game is stuck. It can't compete with the big guys out there because the devs don't have the resources to do so. The gameplay and the cross-platform functionality are pretty unique, but the market has spoken: without lots more content and functionality, people are going to pass it by. As an aside, saying this game is capable of RP is the same as saying Team Fortress in Quake was capable of RP. Let's not be disengenuos, ok?
I mean:
"Users may build their characters in any direction they desire, becoming rich captains of industry, military heroes, or outlaws. A fast-paced, realtime "twitch" style combat model gives intense action, coupled with the backdrop of RPG gameplay in a massive online galaxy. Three major player factions form a delicate balance of power, with several NPC sub-factions creating situations of economic struggle, political intrigue and conflict."
I can't become a captain of industry, there is no military to become a hero in and nearly ever PvPer is an outlaw somewhere. What RPG gameplay? What "delicate" balance of power? What economic struggle, political intrigue? These things may be ingame in a year and half, but do you really think the devs can keep going on 50 active players for a year and a half?
The devs are making a herculean effort here, and I hope they succeed, but that doesn't mean I have to sit here and get angry whenever someone points out reality. At most I just nod sadly and enter my credit card number.
This is a niche-niche-niche game, in a paying beta. I remember when it was "Still a Test" whenever someone pointed out a problem, most of which haven't been addressed. Now it's "I have faith in the devs."
Uh-Huh. Look, I love this game. I don't play very often anymore because I've grown bored with what content exists, but I keep my subscription up (might even be time to resubscribe, gotta check). Paying and having been in the game for a year and a half hasn't blinded me to reality.
The reality is that this game is stuck. It can't compete with the big guys out there because the devs don't have the resources to do so. The gameplay and the cross-platform functionality are pretty unique, but the market has spoken: without lots more content and functionality, people are going to pass it by. As an aside, saying this game is capable of RP is the same as saying Team Fortress in Quake was capable of RP. Let's not be disengenuos, ok?
I mean:
"Users may build their characters in any direction they desire, becoming rich captains of industry, military heroes, or outlaws. A fast-paced, realtime "twitch" style combat model gives intense action, coupled with the backdrop of RPG gameplay in a massive online galaxy. Three major player factions form a delicate balance of power, with several NPC sub-factions creating situations of economic struggle, political intrigue and conflict."
I can't become a captain of industry, there is no military to become a hero in and nearly ever PvPer is an outlaw somewhere. What RPG gameplay? What "delicate" balance of power? What economic struggle, political intrigue? These things may be ingame in a year and half, but do you really think the devs can keep going on 50 active players for a year and a half?
The devs are making a herculean effort here, and I hope they succeed, but that doesn't mean I have to sit here and get angry whenever someone points out reality. At most I just nod sadly and enter my credit card number.
If you'll read the actual original post, you'll see that it has nothing to do with any of this and just complains that we go to slow, like 50000 posts already have done. It also says that there shouldn't be any sound, which is kind of stupid. If you don't want sound, turn it off.
Right, and when he goes off on a ranting tangent about why the game has so few players, and is largely right, we get people saying:
"If you were actually a paying customer rather than the pathetic geeky troll livign in your parents basement you would have realized that the game is fully capable for roleplaying."
... and generally saying "Everything's copacetic." Those who are honest came right out and said, "It amuses me but I'm paying for the potential."
"If you were actually a paying customer rather than the pathetic geeky troll livign in your parents basement you would have realized that the game is fully capable for roleplaying."
... and generally saying "Everything's copacetic." Those who are honest came right out and said, "It amuses me but I'm paying for the potential."
very true starfisher.
as I stated above, I pay to play for the potential, (well I pay anyhow, work has been keeping me from the play part for about 3 weeks now, but that has nothing to do with guildsoftware itself)
however I DO have faith in the devs. I have faith that they will put every effort they can into the product.
Does that mean they WILL succede? of course not, but there is a chance that they will, and I figure my odds of coming out ahead are better if I pay for vendetta than if I buy lottery tickets.
8-P
Anyhow, If nothing else I feel that I owe the devs any support i can give them for the ~2 years I played for free when it was an engine test and then an alpha test.
as I stated above, I pay to play for the potential, (well I pay anyhow, work has been keeping me from the play part for about 3 weeks now, but that has nothing to do with guildsoftware itself)
however I DO have faith in the devs. I have faith that they will put every effort they can into the product.
Does that mean they WILL succede? of course not, but there is a chance that they will, and I figure my odds of coming out ahead are better if I pay for vendetta than if I buy lottery tickets.
8-P
Anyhow, If nothing else I feel that I owe the devs any support i can give them for the ~2 years I played for free when it was an engine test and then an alpha test.