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Constructive CtC Suggestions
Some say CtC is dead. Some say CtC isn't dead. In my opinion, the problem with CtC is that it's too easy for a single pilot to jump in, kill the transport, and escape with cargo, even with several players on the opposing team guarding it. On top of that, the ratio of players per faction seems to vary greatly. If there are 40 Itani on, and only 15 Serco, it just isn't balanced. I want to see it become more Balanced and more Fun for those who want to participate.
1) Reduce the frequency and increase the quantity - Currently the convoys run nearly every hour or so. I don't know the exact frequency, but, it's too much. Decrease this to around three times per day for both nations. These convoy runs could occur at static times. Then, increase each load to 50cu, or something big like that. That way if a convoy is destroyed, it would be difficult for one player alone to grab the cargo and get away (ships with 50cu typically aren't really fast). Of course 50cu is arbitrary.
2) NPC Reinforcements Based on Nation Player Ratios - The amount of NPC Reinforcements per convoy needs to increase based on how many more players a particular Nation has in advantage over the other. These NPC should fly in formation around all sides of the convoy, not just follow behind it. Of course, if as the ratio of players on each Nation approaches nearly 1:1, the number of NPC reinforcements would be reduced substantially.
3) Itani and Serco convoys should leave at the same time - This way, you are force to either defend or attack the other convoy. There's no both option. This requires that in order to "Win", you must participate in Groups and split up between the convoys.
There could be more, but this is all I can think of at the moment.
1) Reduce the frequency and increase the quantity - Currently the convoys run nearly every hour or so. I don't know the exact frequency, but, it's too much. Decrease this to around three times per day for both nations. These convoy runs could occur at static times. Then, increase each load to 50cu, or something big like that. That way if a convoy is destroyed, it would be difficult for one player alone to grab the cargo and get away (ships with 50cu typically aren't really fast). Of course 50cu is arbitrary.
2) NPC Reinforcements Based on Nation Player Ratios - The amount of NPC Reinforcements per convoy needs to increase based on how many more players a particular Nation has in advantage over the other. These NPC should fly in formation around all sides of the convoy, not just follow behind it. Of course, if as the ratio of players on each Nation approaches nearly 1:1, the number of NPC reinforcements would be reduced substantially.
3) Itani and Serco convoys should leave at the same time - This way, you are force to either defend or attack the other convoy. There's no both option. This requires that in order to "Win", you must participate in Groups and split up between the convoys.
There could be more, but this is all I can think of at the moment.
4) Remove Turbo - Remove all turbo from the CTC Transports
1. IMO the interval between transports is just fine, though the speed of the transports and the ammount of armor they have could be tweaked a bit more. I do agree with you though that there should be more cargo than any one player could carry. Look at the size of the Behemoth and any of the "transport" ships. They are all bigger then the Behemoth by far yet they can only carry tiny amounts of cargo?? I would up it to 200cu's per transport.
2. How is the script that decides how many npc guardians to launch going to know which serco/itani are traders and which are ctc'ers, and are you also taking into consideration that UIT and Pirates participate as well? It's a good idea but I don't see how they are going to be able to determine how many to send.
3. I'm totally for having them both go at the same time. Makes you choose which is most important. Or sets the stage for large campaigns for guarding and attacking at the same time.
2. How is the script that decides how many npc guardians to launch going to know which serco/itani are traders and which are ctc'ers, and are you also taking into consideration that UIT and Pirates participate as well? It's a good idea but I don't see how they are going to be able to determine how many to send.
3. I'm totally for having them both go at the same time. Makes you choose which is most important. Or sets the stage for large campaigns for guarding and attacking at the same time.
1) Perhaps the interval isn't as big of a deal as I think, but, I don't know. It just seems like if there were less convoys per day, then more focus could be placed on them. With the regularity of each convoy as it stands, the value of each convoy decreases less and less... (in terms of people who really 'care' about it) so by decreasing the frequency, you would increase the ethusiasm for participating. Maybe that's just wishful thinking.
2) It's not an exact number, it's an estimate. It would be the same way it would happen in the military. The Serco could have an idea of how many Itani ships could be present, and compare it to how many Serco (non-NPC) ships could be present. Certainly not all 40 Itani that are on are going to participate in CtC. So the 'script' would need to make an estimate of the percentage based on previous incursions (this would just be an average of the number of 'attacks', I guess).
3) Exactly.
4) I like that.
2) It's not an exact number, it's an estimate. It would be the same way it would happen in the military. The Serco could have an idea of how many Itani ships could be present, and compare it to how many Serco (non-NPC) ships could be present. Certainly not all 40 Itani that are on are going to participate in CtC. So the 'script' would need to make an estimate of the percentage based on previous incursions (this would just be an average of the number of 'attacks', I guess).
3) Exactly.
4) I like that.
Excellent post kihjin, very well thought out.
1) I think this is a good idea, because it would involve more people and become a bigger event in general. I like the idea of the convoy leaving at specific times during the day... perhaps one every three hours? I bet if the times weren't random you would see a *lot* of people log on at once to participate. I would also like to add that the transport's armor should also be bumped up substantially... right now it's too easy for a single player to swoop in and kill it. What about having the convoy transport be a Behemoth with some added armor?
2) Brilliant! I can't believe no one thought of this sooner... NPC guards are obviously not as smart or tough as real players, so an organized team of PCs would still have the upper hand, but at least this would keep things from getting too one sided, since the nation populations seem to be strongly skewed.
3) I'm not sure how I feel about this one... I guess it would kinda go along with the convoy leaving at regular hours. It sounds good in theory, but with the population being what it is it might work against suggestion #1 in that it would split the number of participants in each convoy in half. I guess its one of those things where you'd just have to try it and see.
4) Yes, yes yes! Remove turbo from anyone carrying premium xith ore; transport or PC. This would necessitate so much more team strategy on both sides. This was actually the way CtF was in the Alpha days, you couldn't turbo so long as you had the flag.
To elaborate on #4:
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/9765#112013
1) I think this is a good idea, because it would involve more people and become a bigger event in general. I like the idea of the convoy leaving at specific times during the day... perhaps one every three hours? I bet if the times weren't random you would see a *lot* of people log on at once to participate. I would also like to add that the transport's armor should also be bumped up substantially... right now it's too easy for a single player to swoop in and kill it. What about having the convoy transport be a Behemoth with some added armor?
2) Brilliant! I can't believe no one thought of this sooner... NPC guards are obviously not as smart or tough as real players, so an organized team of PCs would still have the upper hand, but at least this would keep things from getting too one sided, since the nation populations seem to be strongly skewed.
3) I'm not sure how I feel about this one... I guess it would kinda go along with the convoy leaving at regular hours. It sounds good in theory, but with the population being what it is it might work against suggestion #1 in that it would split the number of participants in each convoy in half. I guess its one of those things where you'd just have to try it and see.
4) Yes, yes yes! Remove turbo from anyone carrying premium xith ore; transport or PC. This would necessitate so much more team strategy on both sides. This was actually the way CtF was in the Alpha days, you couldn't turbo so long as you had the flag.
To elaborate on #4:
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/9765#112013
1) I could see the number of units per convoy bumped up, but PLEASE don't increase the time between convoys. What I would prefer to see happen with the timing is make it more even throughout the day; during the peak three hours or so, convoys run VERY frequently, like about every quarter hour, but during the off-peak hours (when I usually play) there can be over an hour between convoys. That's the second biggest reason I haven't been doing CtC as much lately (the first by far being the lack of player participation). I would like the convoy frequency during peak hours to be kept around the same, but have the frequency during off-peak hours increased to about once every half-hour or so. I'd also prefer it not be on a set schedule, as that would make it feel more like work than play. I like being able to play when I feel like it, not at X o'clock sharp, daily. In fact, I'd almost prefer it if there was some way players could initiate convoys, maybe put a "Convoy Master" bot in Bractus Watch & Daltus Hold, that could be hailed similar to the Marshals, to initiate a convoy. Convoys couldn't leave more often than 20 minutes, or less often than once ever hour-and-a-half. I do see some potential for this to be abused (set up IRC-like bots that spam convoys as often as possible), but I think it would be easy enough to track down exploiters that it could be kept under control.
2) Probably a good idea, but it assumes that roughly equal percentages of players from each nation will participate, and that UIT participants would be evenly divided. Unfortanatly I don't think that's a safe assumption. But improved CtC escort AI would be very nice.
3) I already only defend, so this one doesn't apply so much to me, but I like it.
4) (Slight correction for Phaserlight: CtC cargo is Purified Xithricite, not Premium Xithricite. Premium is mined.) When I first saw this idea, I was kind of ambivalent, but as I've thought about it more I've grown to think it would be good. The thing that I saw as a potential problem at first was that it would make the delivery trips take so much time that I was afraid we'd see a huge jump in number of units just jettisoned to time-out in space. But, as I've thought more about it I actually think that could be a good thing, because it would tend to keep the scores closer together, which would hopefully cut down on people giving up & not participating, which IMO has been by far the biggest thing detracting from the fun of CtC. But, one thing I'd like to see in addition to this, is notification on channels 201 & 202 for when cargo has been lost to space, so that players don't waste time guarding wormholes waiting for the player who took the cargo, if in fact the cargo has already been lost. Just something like "<X> units of Purified Xithricite have been lost to space in <System> <Sector>."
2) Probably a good idea, but it assumes that roughly equal percentages of players from each nation will participate, and that UIT participants would be evenly divided. Unfortanatly I don't think that's a safe assumption. But improved CtC escort AI would be very nice.
3) I already only defend, so this one doesn't apply so much to me, but I like it.
4) (Slight correction for Phaserlight: CtC cargo is Purified Xithricite, not Premium Xithricite. Premium is mined.) When I first saw this idea, I was kind of ambivalent, but as I've thought about it more I've grown to think it would be good. The thing that I saw as a potential problem at first was that it would make the delivery trips take so much time that I was afraid we'd see a huge jump in number of units just jettisoned to time-out in space. But, as I've thought more about it I actually think that could be a good thing, because it would tend to keep the scores closer together, which would hopefully cut down on people giving up & not participating, which IMO has been by far the biggest thing detracting from the fun of CtC. But, one thing I'd like to see in addition to this, is notification on channels 201 & 202 for when cargo has been lost to space, so that players don't waste time guarding wormholes waiting for the player who took the cargo, if in fact the cargo has already been lost. Just something like "<X> units of Purified Xithricite have been lost to space in <System> <Sector>."
4) yes.
4) with this, the voy will never go outside Sedina L2 or Bractus C5
- rename it CtF then
- rename it CtF then
hmm... I agree the "no-turbo" idea is interesting, but I think it's a too-harsh punishment to expect a successful raider to fly back the looooong way...
what if we added return-points for cargo at SDN-L2 and BRC-C5? That way if someone jumps the transport right at the station they'll only have to cross three systems, rather than five...
**edit** i.e, if I hit the convoy at the wormhole to Latos, I'd only have to take it to Bractus Watch, where it can wait to be loaded on an Itani transport...
what if we added return-points for cargo at SDN-L2 and BRC-C5? That way if someone jumps the transport right at the station they'll only have to cross three systems, rather than five...
**edit** i.e, if I hit the convoy at the wormhole to Latos, I'd only have to take it to Bractus Watch, where it can wait to be loaded on an Itani transport...
2) What if, instead of calculating an escort size each time, the count was based on the previous shipment, or rather how long it took to die? If the last shipment was destroyed/captured quickly, more escorts, if it got through successfully, less escorts...
That would certainly make repeated raids on CtC routes more interesting...the more successive raids, the harder they become... Additionally, perhaps make it a delta instead of a straight calculation, so in the above case where the # of escorts finally gets high enough that it gets through unmolested, the next run will just decrease the # of escorts rather than dropping back to the minimum.
In a way, this would also model how it would work in pseudo-real-life: if your transport keeps getting captured, you're going to up the protection, but if it never has any problem, you're going to cut down to save money :)
--mcn
That would certainly make repeated raids on CtC routes more interesting...the more successive raids, the harder they become... Additionally, perhaps make it a delta instead of a straight calculation, so in the above case where the # of escorts finally gets high enough that it gets through unmolested, the next run will just decrease the # of escorts rather than dropping back to the minimum.
In a way, this would also model how it would work in pseudo-real-life: if your transport keeps getting captured, you're going to up the protection, but if it never has any problem, you're going to cut down to save money :)
--mcn
@mburrack:
Wonderful idea! Also, thanks for contributing towards one of my original sugguestions. I like the delta concept, however, not as a unit of time for the following reasons:
1. What if the Convoy doesn't die, but receives damage and still makes it?
2. Each Convoy takes a different amount of time to arrive (ion storms) so it's biased to associate the amount of time to die with respect to how much escorts to increase/decrease by
First I think a goal would need to be stated: The escort size is calculated based on the amount of damage (with 100% being destroyed) received to the convoy on route to its corresponding station.
Perhaps a scenario:
Convoy #1: (escorted by 2) Receives 100% damage
Convoy #2: (escorted by 4) Receives 25% damage
Convoy #3: (escorted by 5) Receives 0% damage
Convoy #4: (escorted by 3) Receives 0% damage
Convoy #5: (escorted by 2) .... (and so on)
<edit>
Although after this, it would seem that the # of escorts would drop below two. Even if a convoy received no damage for several trips, there would be no scenario in which 0 escorts are sent. So, two escorts could be the lower limit.
</edit>
Basically, a destroyed Convoy would yield a 100% increase in the number of escorts. Other damage percentages would increase the number of escorts by that amount, as described above. A yield of 0% damage would result in a 1/3 reduction in escorts. Note that because the number of escorts is an integer, 2/3 of 5 is 3.33(rep) which would then be truncated to 3.
Of course these values are arbitrary, but it gives you an idea of how the system could be implemented. I'm not saying it would be easy though, I have no idea how Guild's software is designed.
On top of this, there are different types of escorts. So you just can't say "oh, increase by #." Each type of escort needs a weighted value. The type of escorts provided could be based on The effectiveness of the previous escorts. Say for instance one of them was destroyed, but the convoy was unharmed. In the next convoy, that particular type of escort wouldn't be provided. The 'quality' quantity would be increased by 1, and the associated escort for that value would be deployed. The number of these escorts would be based on the percentage of damage taken by the convoy itself.
Last night I saw a Serco convoy being escorted by Orun collectors. Please tell me that wasn't a joke...
Also, I would like to retract my approval of the No-Turbo concept, as a result of the argument provided by thurisaz.
--
kihjin
Wonderful idea! Also, thanks for contributing towards one of my original sugguestions. I like the delta concept, however, not as a unit of time for the following reasons:
1. What if the Convoy doesn't die, but receives damage and still makes it?
2. Each Convoy takes a different amount of time to arrive (ion storms) so it's biased to associate the amount of time to die with respect to how much escorts to increase/decrease by
First I think a goal would need to be stated: The escort size is calculated based on the amount of damage (with 100% being destroyed) received to the convoy on route to its corresponding station.
Perhaps a scenario:
Convoy #1: (escorted by 2) Receives 100% damage
Convoy #2: (escorted by 4) Receives 25% damage
Convoy #3: (escorted by 5) Receives 0% damage
Convoy #4: (escorted by 3) Receives 0% damage
Convoy #5: (escorted by 2) .... (and so on)
<edit>
Although after this, it would seem that the # of escorts would drop below two. Even if a convoy received no damage for several trips, there would be no scenario in which 0 escorts are sent. So, two escorts could be the lower limit.
</edit>
Basically, a destroyed Convoy would yield a 100% increase in the number of escorts. Other damage percentages would increase the number of escorts by that amount, as described above. A yield of 0% damage would result in a 1/3 reduction in escorts. Note that because the number of escorts is an integer, 2/3 of 5 is 3.33(rep) which would then be truncated to 3.
Of course these values are arbitrary, but it gives you an idea of how the system could be implemented. I'm not saying it would be easy though, I have no idea how Guild's software is designed.
On top of this, there are different types of escorts. So you just can't say "oh, increase by #." Each type of escort needs a weighted value. The type of escorts provided could be based on The effectiveness of the previous escorts. Say for instance one of them was destroyed, but the convoy was unharmed. In the next convoy, that particular type of escort wouldn't be provided. The 'quality' quantity would be increased by 1, and the associated escort for that value would be deployed. The number of these escorts would be based on the percentage of damage taken by the convoy itself.
Last night I saw a Serco convoy being escorted by Orun collectors. Please tell me that wasn't a joke...
Also, I would like to retract my approval of the No-Turbo concept, as a result of the argument provided by thurisaz.
--
kihjin