Recently, I had the opportunity to reach Combat Piloting License level 8, and wanted to upgrade to a better fighting ship. The Valkyrie initially seemed a good alternative, but I decided to ask around before switching.

Everybody asked said that the Valkyrie was inferior to just about every other fighting ship. I even asked one player whether the IDF Valkyrie Vigilant (which requires levels 9/9/6/1/-) or the Centurion Itani Border Guardian (which only requires levels of 1/2/-/-/-) was better as a fighting ship, and that player responded that the Centurion was "much better." Other players said that the Warthog was better than the Valk. I then asked what, if anything, was better about the supposedly much more advanced Vigilant. The reply was, "the name."

Here are the statistics (taken directly from the listings at Jallik Watch (Itani Research) (Jallik E-15) just now):

Centurion Itani Border Guardian:
Level: 1/2/-/-/-
Armor: 7200
Cargo Capacity: 4 cu
Weapons: 2 small
Mass: 3000 kg
Thrust: 220 N
Max Speed: 70 m/s
Spin Torque: 7.0 Nm
Turbo Speed: 240 m/s
Turbo Energy: 60/s

IDF Valkyrie Vigilant:
Level: 9/9/6/1/-
Armor: 11000
Cargo Capacity: 2 cu
Weapons: 3 small
Mass: 3000 kg
Thrust: 215 N
Max Speed: 65 m/s
Spin Torque: 7.0 Nm
Turbo Speed: 240 m/s
Turbo Energy: 55/s

Why does the basic Cent IBG have 70 m/s maximum speed and 220 N thrust, while the elite Valk Vigilant has only 65 m/s maximum speed and 215 N thrust?

Experienced fighters have demonstrated that maneuverability and thrust are much more important for fighting ships in combat than armor.

No wonder that the Cent IBG is preferable to the Valk Vigilant. What's the point of the existence of the elite Valk if the lowly Cent is a better fighting ship in every respect that counts?

I strongly recommend that the thrust of the Valks be un-nerfed relative to the Centurions, and that they be given slightly higher max speeds. Otherwise, there's no point in using them for anything.

-- DekuDekuplex Ornitier

i second this with all my might!

What about upping the mass by half again its current amount per ship, and compensating the engine? That'd allow the Valkyrie to mount more massive weapons while still maintaining a Centurion-like maneuverability.

The problem with that, ctishman, is that if you then slap -light- weapons on it, it will move in godlike speeds.

In itself, not too bad you might think, until you realize that at pings >100 you won't be able to track them on-screen because the slight lag (very normal) will be higher than the update/move of the ship in distances below 80m or so.

This means that the ship is basically unshootable, since your own client won't have a chance at finding or hitting it, and the aims will be completely unusable as well.

Valk really isn't so bad. I survived in B8 for awhile today with one. Got one kill. Woulda gotten two more except the silly Rev C ran away every time I got him below 10%. The thing that killed me is the damned corvus guards who are green dots when you're KOS.

All the valk needs is an extra 20-40 thrust. That third weapon SHOULD slow it down a bit, but it needs to have it to take on the Prom, it's logical enemy. Heck, even 50 thrust. That way if you mount a single N3 you'd be on par with a cent, dual n3 a little worse, three plain out worse. And then a dual flare, single tach valk would be manueverable enough to take on a gt flare prom while at least having a little more chance against a rev c.

I think the Valkyrie should have 9000 or less armor. It's so blisteringly fast, it'll reward good pilots who can make full use of its speed to avoid getting hit but the armor won't be so high that it'll be uber.

I feel that there's something just wrong about a superfast, light fighter with three (3) S-ports that has 1000+ more armor than a medium-slow speed, medium fighter with only one (1) S-Port and one (1) generally worthless L-Port Warthog. Yes. The Warthog's L-Port is generally worthless. There are only two-three weapons that are viable for loading on it, and all of them give it a substantial loss in maneuverability.

Either that, or the Hog should have 10000-12000 armor.

Erm, as it is now, I don't think I'd call the Valk "blisteringly fast." Personally, all I think ought to be done to the Valk is up the thrust to match that of the Cents, maybe 5 or 10 more N on the IDF Valk - that I think would make it fast, but not too much so IMO. Maybe improve its spin torque a little too. And the Warthog needs some beefing up too, either armor or thrust. But, IMO the Valk (Combat 8) should be better than the Warthog (Combat 2). Not a whole lot, but a little bit.

Increase the thrust +5 and the max speed to 70 for the IDF Valk at least. It should at minimum match the Cent IBG. All other stats sans armor and drain are the same, so it should behave identicaly with this changes.

The option to use a second, much less a third weapon, and the consequnces thereof are in the players hands. The Centurion IBG is rather an elite ship, as it's perhaps the most lithe ship in the game. A fully loaded IDF Valk shouldn't be greater than that agility, but unladen should match or exceed it.

I think the Valk should way out match the Cent. I mean we are talkin a lvl 1/2/0 ship (IBG) vs a lvl 9/9/6/1 ship (IDF). It seems obvious to me that higher level ships should be far superior to low level ships. IMO the IDF Valk needs another 30N thrust, another 1.5Nm spin torque, and another 1000 armor. as well as +5 to its top speed. Should look something like this.

IDF Valkyrie Vigilant
9/9/6/1/-
Armor: 12000
Cargo Caoacity: 2cu
Weapons: 3 small
Mass: 3000 kg
Thrust: 245N
Max Speed: 70 m/s
Spin Torque: 8.5 Nm
Turbo Speed: 240 m/s
Turbo Energy: 55/s

Now I can see lots of people sayin this would be an uber hard to beat ship. Youre right. It should be. It takes ALOT of work to get to 9/9/6/1/-. Now If you dont want to up the Valk to something similar to what Ive posted then I say nerf the cents. In either case the best centurian shouldnt even come close to the worst valk.

its apples and oranges trying to compare the valk against the cent. One's a light fighter and the other is a medium fighter. Sure the Valk can be the most manuverable of all the med level ships but a cent should always be able to run circles around it. The valk should be able to pack more of a punch with better armor.

i don't think there's any question that the valk needs a little help. there is indeed something seriously wrong when the highest level itani choose to fly IBGs or Orion RevCs rather than their hard-earned nation-specific ship. the problem is how to do it without creating an uberShip. i think this is less of a problem given the current Proms, however. and this is really the comparison people should be making: compare valks and proms rather than valks and IBGs. can a valk currently give a prom a run for its money? nope, and so the valk needs some help. and it _should_ be more than a match for an IBG or revC, just as the prom should be more than a match for a ragIII or agresso.

I still think the average Cent should have no more than 5000 armor total at best. When I say paper-thin hull, I mean paper-thin.

so a valk is equal to a cent/IBG and a prom is equal to a centaur/rag???? That doesn't make sense.

Heavey-Prom:Rag:Centaur
Medium-Valk:Wart:Hornet
Light-Cent:Vult:EC

This will be a hated suggestion for sure, but why not make the valk a normal ship and make the nation specific varients of each of the three class of ships. An Itani Rag or Cent specific to Itani and a Serco specific Wart or Hornet. Guild made a mistake by making the nation specific ships in different classes. There will always be a conflict between which is better because one is always going to be heavily armored like a tank and the other would always be mediocer in armor and armorment, simply because of the class of ship.

Should be more like a Prom:Rag or Prom:Centaur, and a Valk:Wart or Valk:Hornet for comparison.

Roguelazer: we -really- need to stop using personal anecdotes or empirical evidence to prove anything. it's just pointless.

Heavens knows the crazy things I've killed people in, and been killed in. It just doesn't count or prove much!

I was under the impression that each of the nation ships was a differnt class fitting thier nations style and attidtude. I have considerd the Valk to be a light fighter, the Marauder to be a medium (more or less), and the Prom as a heavy.