Forums » Suggestions
Ok, first, its not the weapons that are the problem with this. I agree 100% that the skycommand with an advanced gatling is akin to a TD with 21k hull, perhaps even more maneuvrable. The skycommand needs some sort of weakness, it's a little TOO good on all fronts. But then the question is, how do we keep it as a *special*. It HAS to be better than what else is on offer.
I have 3 different ideas on how to deal with this.
1) Make the SCprom into a complete tank. Up its armor to 30k, down its thrust to 550 and spin torque down a couple, and up its mass slightly. That way its dodgeable, can take a few more hits, but if you dogfight too much you will be taken down albeit slowly.
2) Make the SCprom into a weapons platform. Add an L port, down its hull to 18k, and down its thrust to 580 and spin torque down a couple, increase mass by around 2-3k. You will NOT want to meet this in a large-scale battle, but its easily taken apart 1v1.
3) Bump it down a little from what we have. 10-20N less thrust, 0.5 less spintorque, 20k hull, and see how it goes.
[rant]
Because at the moment, the prom takes crap all skill to fly. In some ways I miss fighting people like eldy in the pre-beta prom, because it was bloody hard work keeping distance and hitting him but he was still afraid enough of the rockets not to simply dance around me and zap me apart.
Actually, you know something? Maybe, just maybe, we should take out the mass system regarding weapons. People don't mount sunflares because they're heavy. People don't mount railguns because they're heavy. People don't usually mount gauss, because they're heavy. What's the point of having these if the weight makes them prohibitive to use? Why does an empty sunflare tube weigh as much as a full one, for instance?
Ok, fine, everyone's raving about all the new content that's coming. But Vendetta could be SO MUCH MORE EXCITING if there were more than 3-4 weapons high-end pilots could choose from. Right now its the N3 and AGT. TPG/XGX phase blasters are useless because you cant HIT anything with them because they're so damn slow. Axia posis do less damage/second than N2s, let alone N3s, and are harder to hit with. Flechettes are not in any way intimidating. All straightfire rockets save the jackhammer are useless in fighter combat, and even the jackhammer is easily dodged. Homing missiles are fire-and-forget, all they do is STALL fights and make things MORE BORING. Railguns use a ridiculous amount of energy, are dodgeable even though they are nearly-no-autoaim (even at 200m), the mass on the plasma devastators is too high.
And the charge cannon is pure, unadulterated poo.
The new features added in the time this has been gold are incredible considering there's only 4 of you guys working on it. I'll probably get the "but this this and this isn't done yet, we can't make this useful because X Y and Z" argument from some posters, and the "OMG LEAVE SCP ALONE" from others, but the draw to this game is the PvP. Its being pulled apart by lack of variation.
No I am not suggesting we all fly around in busses. I want to be SCARED of a hornet. I want to be able to fly a warthog and be able to do serious damage to a prom. I want to carry around a CHARGE CANNON without being laughed at and danced around. I want all ports on every ship to be useful, and not forsaken for some ridiculous agility contest which negates almost every other factor in combat, INCLUDING AIMING SKILL.
[/rant]
Oh wait a minute.
[rant]
Phased blaster. Its economical and not much else. Give it 180m/s at least for the XGX/Sparrow or maybe even 190-200m/s otherwise it just won't hit anything. Positrons. Increase their speed to match the N2 and N3 for the regular/axias, and make the megaposi MEGA. Fast. N3+ speed. High drain. You will fear it. Make rockets useful again by making them *lighter* and *faster*. Carrot. The ships have been boosted leaving the sunflares in the dust, and don't even get me started on the ice/starflares. The flechettes are mediocre because you can't keep up a good spray with 2+ for long. Down their energy consumption. Railguns are too heavy, reduce ammo (who the hell needs 30 shots. If you do, either you're crap or the weapon is. Huge ammo should not be the balancing factor for these, bring it more in line!) + weight. Gauss are fine, but down their weight a touch to make them a decent alternative to neutrons. The AGT is good. The regular gatling is not, down its energy consumption or its useless- it needs a role perhaps as a supporting weapon for a gauss or something (why can't I fire regular gatling + 2 flechettes for a reasonable period of time without total battery drain? 4 seconds continuous firing would be cool with me.) Devastators are nearly fine, down their mass a bit. Jackhammers are almost fine. 70m/s would be good. Screamers need enough speed to be useful as a stand-alone weapon with their low prox and high energy drain, maybe 95m/s. Homing missiles, refer to CP's thread, that idea rules.
[/rant]
I feel better. If replying to the rant, put the random word I inserted within in your reply, so I know you read the whole thing before replying. Its orange.
I have 3 different ideas on how to deal with this.
1) Make the SCprom into a complete tank. Up its armor to 30k, down its thrust to 550 and spin torque down a couple, and up its mass slightly. That way its dodgeable, can take a few more hits, but if you dogfight too much you will be taken down albeit slowly.
2) Make the SCprom into a weapons platform. Add an L port, down its hull to 18k, and down its thrust to 580 and spin torque down a couple, increase mass by around 2-3k. You will NOT want to meet this in a large-scale battle, but its easily taken apart 1v1.
3) Bump it down a little from what we have. 10-20N less thrust, 0.5 less spintorque, 20k hull, and see how it goes.
[rant]
Because at the moment, the prom takes crap all skill to fly. In some ways I miss fighting people like eldy in the pre-beta prom, because it was bloody hard work keeping distance and hitting him but he was still afraid enough of the rockets not to simply dance around me and zap me apart.
Actually, you know something? Maybe, just maybe, we should take out the mass system regarding weapons. People don't mount sunflares because they're heavy. People don't mount railguns because they're heavy. People don't usually mount gauss, because they're heavy. What's the point of having these if the weight makes them prohibitive to use? Why does an empty sunflare tube weigh as much as a full one, for instance?
Ok, fine, everyone's raving about all the new content that's coming. But Vendetta could be SO MUCH MORE EXCITING if there were more than 3-4 weapons high-end pilots could choose from. Right now its the N3 and AGT. TPG/XGX phase blasters are useless because you cant HIT anything with them because they're so damn slow. Axia posis do less damage/second than N2s, let alone N3s, and are harder to hit with. Flechettes are not in any way intimidating. All straightfire rockets save the jackhammer are useless in fighter combat, and even the jackhammer is easily dodged. Homing missiles are fire-and-forget, all they do is STALL fights and make things MORE BORING. Railguns use a ridiculous amount of energy, are dodgeable even though they are nearly-no-autoaim (even at 200m), the mass on the plasma devastators is too high.
And the charge cannon is pure, unadulterated poo.
The new features added in the time this has been gold are incredible considering there's only 4 of you guys working on it. I'll probably get the "but this this and this isn't done yet, we can't make this useful because X Y and Z" argument from some posters, and the "OMG LEAVE SCP ALONE" from others, but the draw to this game is the PvP. Its being pulled apart by lack of variation.
No I am not suggesting we all fly around in busses. I want to be SCARED of a hornet. I want to be able to fly a warthog and be able to do serious damage to a prom. I want to carry around a CHARGE CANNON without being laughed at and danced around. I want all ports on every ship to be useful, and not forsaken for some ridiculous agility contest which negates almost every other factor in combat, INCLUDING AIMING SKILL.
[/rant]
Oh wait a minute.
[rant]
Phased blaster. Its economical and not much else. Give it 180m/s at least for the XGX/Sparrow or maybe even 190-200m/s otherwise it just won't hit anything. Positrons. Increase their speed to match the N2 and N3 for the regular/axias, and make the megaposi MEGA. Fast. N3+ speed. High drain. You will fear it. Make rockets useful again by making them *lighter* and *faster*. Carrot. The ships have been boosted leaving the sunflares in the dust, and don't even get me started on the ice/starflares. The flechettes are mediocre because you can't keep up a good spray with 2+ for long. Down their energy consumption. Railguns are too heavy, reduce ammo (who the hell needs 30 shots. If you do, either you're crap or the weapon is. Huge ammo should not be the balancing factor for these, bring it more in line!) + weight. Gauss are fine, but down their weight a touch to make them a decent alternative to neutrons. The AGT is good. The regular gatling is not, down its energy consumption or its useless- it needs a role perhaps as a supporting weapon for a gauss or something (why can't I fire regular gatling + 2 flechettes for a reasonable period of time without total battery drain? 4 seconds continuous firing would be cool with me.) Devastators are nearly fine, down their mass a bit. Jackhammers are almost fine. 70m/s would be good. Screamers need enough speed to be useful as a stand-alone weapon with their low prox and high energy drain, maybe 95m/s. Homing missiles, refer to CP's thread, that idea rules.
[/rant]
I feel better. If replying to the rant, put the random word I inserted within in your reply, so I know you read the whole thing before replying. Its orange.
Well said UncleDave, I agree with all the points you raised... These issues have now depressed me so much that I decided to wipe my characters last night, and I'm currently chewing over whether its worth restarting anytime soon...
PS: a carrot is orange?
PS: a carrot is orange?
I entirely agree. In fact, I agree even though I've been using the Sky Prom to up my pks like I used the pre-nerf new trade missions for corvus standing :)
I love the idea of eliminating weapon mass totally. I think it would make pvp and combat much more fun, instead of restricted to the two uber weapons because nothing can compete with them. I love the axia posis, but they are mostly useless in pvp because my opponent is sure to be in a rev c/ibg with nIIIs and I can't outmanuever them to get a clean shot with it.
I would like to see damage/shot be inversely proportional to speed. That would make the lower damage weapons have a real use - they do less damage but are easier to hit with. I would use the Sparrows for PVP sometimes, then.
/vote implement_suggestions UncleDave
I love the idea of eliminating weapon mass totally. I think it would make pvp and combat much more fun, instead of restricted to the two uber weapons because nothing can compete with them. I love the axia posis, but they are mostly useless in pvp because my opponent is sure to be in a rev c/ibg with nIIIs and I can't outmanuever them to get a clean shot with it.
I would like to see damage/shot be inversely proportional to speed. That would make the lower damage weapons have a real use - they do less damage but are easier to hit with. I would use the Sparrows for PVP sometimes, then.
/vote implement_suggestions UncleDave
Wow, read this ... nothing to add ...
< No I am not suggesting we all fly around in busses. I want to be SCARED of a hornet. I want to be able to fly a warthog and be able to do serious damage to a prom. I want to carry around a CHARGE CANNON without being laughed at and danced around. I want all ports on every ship to be useful, and not forsaken for some ridiculous agility contest which negates almost every other factor in combat, INCLUDING AIMING SKILL. >
/me deletes [rant] from Dave's post ...
You bring up, what i have in mind, but can't formulate because of my crappy english.
Thanx Dave!
Linda
Edit: Heh, i forgot orange :)
< No I am not suggesting we all fly around in busses. I want to be SCARED of a hornet. I want to be able to fly a warthog and be able to do serious damage to a prom. I want to carry around a CHARGE CANNON without being laughed at and danced around. I want all ports on every ship to be useful, and not forsaken for some ridiculous agility contest which negates almost every other factor in combat, INCLUDING AIMING SKILL. >
/me deletes [rant] from Dave's post ...
You bring up, what i have in mind, but can't formulate because of my crappy english.
Thanx Dave!
Linda
Edit: Heh, i forgot orange :)
[rant]
Prom: I like the first suggestion, albeit it will mean that all the proms will need a retunement to be in line with their objective. Since your proposal is only for the skycommand.
But seeing that the valk is far from as special as you would think it should be, mostly due to weightincurred disadvantages. I have a slight tendency to go for the 3th option. just to keep the small balance that is beginning to form within the ships (with a couple exceptions like the hornet). REMARK: I stated ships not weaponloadouts
However, since that the marauder is not that special (see all the other marauders offered by tunguska, corvus,...). Nor is the valkyrie (serco guardian vulutre, corvus vulturius heck even the ibg and the rev c come close to it in effectiveness). It would be kinda strange to give the serco the only special (no other ship does so effectively its job as the prometheus, and seeing its stats I would consider it at this time to be a seriously beefed up wraith with the dodgingcapabilities of a warthog). Give the prom the same hps as it stands and only the dodgingcapabilities of the wraith, and it will still be special and a threat. But not as uber as it is now. But who am I to decide upon something like this.
And once more get some frigging feel to a nation into the game. Since what is the real incentive to be serco, itani or neutral except for beginningfaction differences and the access to ctc or not. I know it is going to be difficult to balance, but at least start with giving each nation a specific advantage and disadvantage applied to all the shiptypes. So that a serconian warthog mk4 != UIT warthog mk4. This and this alone will already increase tactics and replayability, not to mention RPG-feel
Now on the weapons, I agree completely to uncledaves opinion. During the old days all people used were sunflares and gausses. Now all that people use are AGT's and neut2/3s. Just because the other options are to heavy to be competetive with the other users. Although I do believe that weight is a good limitting idea in making some options less-uber and in the end balancing out all the options. Especially some of the factionrewarded weapons. Who in his right mind is going to get himself the sparrow phased blaster if his neutron mk2 more then nullifies the use for it. Maybe even get some form of synergy in the game that reduces some of the base weight of 2 loadout-options. Or a penalty for not equipping all your ports with a weapon. This to counteract people using a prom skycommand with only the agt and be practically untouchable. You could even use the reversed modifier as in the next examples. Meaning not using all the open ports will add 3/2 of the weight to the ship for each open port.
Example: use energy + rocket, seperate energy 600 - rocket 800. Together 933. ((600+ 800)*2/3) While using 2 of the same type makes it so that the total weight would be the normal one. (aka 1200 for 2 guns, 1600 for 2 rockets). This in itself would already increase options although there will still be people that will prefer only using 1 weapon.
On the hornet this would be:
2 rockets + 2 energy: a double synergy then double same
--> [(600 + 800)*2/3]+ [(600 + 800)*2/3] = 933 + 933 = 1866 while using 4 energy would be: 2400 or using 4 rockets would be 3200. While using 2 rockets or even 2 energyweapons would be respectively 1600 and 1200. Add in the option of the penalty and you would get a weight of 1600 * 3/2 * 3/2 =3600 (even worse then mounting 4 rockets), Or 2700 for energyweapons (even worse then mounting 4 energyweapons). Only mounting 1 energyweapon on a hornet would still set you back for a baseweight of 2025.
This synergy could be used for either only the small ports(meaning a pairing up of 2 small port options), the heavy ports or maybe even a mix. Example: same synergy if you use a large port rocket with a small port energyweapon.
The only downside is that this might get very difficult to balance in the end. But it will help a lot in diversifying weaponsloadouts. But at least not using weapons or only a limited amount will make it easier to balance the entire power of the ship. Since you will only need to balance for like a bracket of 2200 - 5000 for a hornet in stead of adding 0 - 5000 which makes the 5000 option more or less a brick compared to the 0 option and as a result unfeasable.
Naturally there will be better modifiers, but this was just a quick idea that came into the back of my mind. And it will most definately help in balancing empty loadouts with the full ones.
[/rant]
PS: I read everything uncle :D
Prom: I like the first suggestion, albeit it will mean that all the proms will need a retunement to be in line with their objective. Since your proposal is only for the skycommand.
But seeing that the valk is far from as special as you would think it should be, mostly due to weightincurred disadvantages. I have a slight tendency to go for the 3th option. just to keep the small balance that is beginning to form within the ships (with a couple exceptions like the hornet). REMARK: I stated ships not weaponloadouts
However, since that the marauder is not that special (see all the other marauders offered by tunguska, corvus,...). Nor is the valkyrie (serco guardian vulutre, corvus vulturius heck even the ibg and the rev c come close to it in effectiveness). It would be kinda strange to give the serco the only special (no other ship does so effectively its job as the prometheus, and seeing its stats I would consider it at this time to be a seriously beefed up wraith with the dodgingcapabilities of a warthog). Give the prom the same hps as it stands and only the dodgingcapabilities of the wraith, and it will still be special and a threat. But not as uber as it is now. But who am I to decide upon something like this.
And once more get some frigging feel to a nation into the game. Since what is the real incentive to be serco, itani or neutral except for beginningfaction differences and the access to ctc or not. I know it is going to be difficult to balance, but at least start with giving each nation a specific advantage and disadvantage applied to all the shiptypes. So that a serconian warthog mk4 != UIT warthog mk4. This and this alone will already increase tactics and replayability, not to mention RPG-feel
Now on the weapons, I agree completely to uncledaves opinion. During the old days all people used were sunflares and gausses. Now all that people use are AGT's and neut2/3s. Just because the other options are to heavy to be competetive with the other users. Although I do believe that weight is a good limitting idea in making some options less-uber and in the end balancing out all the options. Especially some of the factionrewarded weapons. Who in his right mind is going to get himself the sparrow phased blaster if his neutron mk2 more then nullifies the use for it. Maybe even get some form of synergy in the game that reduces some of the base weight of 2 loadout-options. Or a penalty for not equipping all your ports with a weapon. This to counteract people using a prom skycommand with only the agt and be practically untouchable. You could even use the reversed modifier as in the next examples. Meaning not using all the open ports will add 3/2 of the weight to the ship for each open port.
Example: use energy + rocket, seperate energy 600 - rocket 800. Together 933. ((600+ 800)*2/3) While using 2 of the same type makes it so that the total weight would be the normal one. (aka 1200 for 2 guns, 1600 for 2 rockets). This in itself would already increase options although there will still be people that will prefer only using 1 weapon.
On the hornet this would be:
2 rockets + 2 energy: a double synergy then double same
--> [(600 + 800)*2/3]+ [(600 + 800)*2/3] = 933 + 933 = 1866 while using 4 energy would be: 2400 or using 4 rockets would be 3200. While using 2 rockets or even 2 energyweapons would be respectively 1600 and 1200. Add in the option of the penalty and you would get a weight of 1600 * 3/2 * 3/2 =3600 (even worse then mounting 4 rockets), Or 2700 for energyweapons (even worse then mounting 4 energyweapons). Only mounting 1 energyweapon on a hornet would still set you back for a baseweight of 2025.
This synergy could be used for either only the small ports(meaning a pairing up of 2 small port options), the heavy ports or maybe even a mix. Example: same synergy if you use a large port rocket with a small port energyweapon.
The only downside is that this might get very difficult to balance in the end. But it will help a lot in diversifying weaponsloadouts. But at least not using weapons or only a limited amount will make it easier to balance the entire power of the ship. Since you will only need to balance for like a bracket of 2200 - 5000 for a hornet in stead of adding 0 - 5000 which makes the 5000 option more or less a brick compared to the 0 option and as a result unfeasable.
Naturally there will be better modifiers, but this was just a quick idea that came into the back of my mind. And it will most definately help in balancing empty loadouts with the full ones.
[/rant]
PS: I read everything uncle :D
I think carrot Uncle Dave brought up a bunch of really good points. I'd like to see more weapons be useful because right now there are only a few ship combinations and a few weapon combinations that people use. The only remotely useful missiles are swarms, and you have to spam lots of them and run before you get smashed by a faster ship. I want to see flechettes be something other than a suicide gun (I get laughed off the battlefield for using them).
I generally think that Renegade has some good points, but I do find some of his comments a little weird. For instance, "Now all that people use are AGT's and neut2/3s. Just because the other options are to heavy to be competetive with the other users."
During late beta and way into release (in fact, until only a month or two ago) only 4 or 5 of us used AGTs consistantly in combat. And with that, we'd be flying Warthogs. There were only one or two Prom users (Amarus's rocket ramming prom). Until the Prom rebalance, everyone and his brother flew the Valkyrie. Boy, it was hard competing with all of those superfast fighters. Now everyone seems to have migrated to the SC Prom and the Rev-C Centurion. I still get laughed off the battlefield for flying my Mineral Extractor Warthog, but I'm still proud to say that I'm the ONLY player who's willing to fly that fighter into a furball.
I generally think that Renegade has some good points, but I do find some of his comments a little weird. For instance, "Now all that people use are AGT's and neut2/3s. Just because the other options are to heavy to be competetive with the other users."
During late beta and way into release (in fact, until only a month or two ago) only 4 or 5 of us used AGTs consistantly in combat. And with that, we'd be flying Warthogs. There were only one or two Prom users (Amarus's rocket ramming prom). Until the Prom rebalance, everyone and his brother flew the Valkyrie. Boy, it was hard competing with all of those superfast fighters. Now everyone seems to have migrated to the SC Prom and the Rev-C Centurion. I still get laughed off the battlefield for flying my Mineral Extractor Warthog, but I'm still proud to say that I'm the ONLY player who's willing to fly that fighter into a furball.
Very well said Uncle Dave, well put together rant (Ornge, purple, red, Yellow)
Syberfly out
I live for the One, I die for the One.
Syberfly out
I live for the One, I die for the One.
Makes me think of that orange jello with the carrots and celery in it ... yuck
100% on the mark UncleDave, bullseye. I know how you feel Icarus.
100% on the mark UncleDave, bullseye. I know how you feel Icarus.
I agree with UncleDave's points about the SkyCommand. I'm not sure wether all your suggested changes would work, but they're worth the devs testing (on a test server). Carrot. I think that weapon mass is a good thing. Before weapon mass was introduced, there were only 3 weapons that were effective; AGT, Gauss, and Flares. The AGT was honestly barely on that list. The high masses of Gauss and Flares are a reaction to that. I think both of those weapons need their masses re-evaluated. Flares could definitely use a large reduction in mass, and Gauss could use some (though not as much).
another nod, but one comment about ammo on the rails, 30 is a necessity for two reasons:
1) go be able to take a tank SC (which is a great idea), you'll need 17-18 hits. that's currently a 60%+ hit rate with rails. that's demanding enough.
2) to hit lighter ships, you'll need the ammo due to their dodging abilities.
but, this is all good. the rails should be something the big ships fear, and the light ships don't mind much, since they dodge well. it gives weapons reasons to be there. it'll be great to have a weapon that works very well against a certain setup, but is a true pain against another setup. in CtC or Frigate-battles, this'll be fantastic, players have to team up and find their targets, work together with layouts to be able to do their job.
great post.
1) go be able to take a tank SC (which is a great idea), you'll need 17-18 hits. that's currently a 60%+ hit rate with rails. that's demanding enough.
2) to hit lighter ships, you'll need the ammo due to their dodging abilities.
but, this is all good. the rails should be something the big ships fear, and the light ships don't mind much, since they dodge well. it gives weapons reasons to be there. it'll be great to have a weapon that works very well against a certain setup, but is a true pain against another setup. in CtC or Frigate-battles, this'll be fantastic, players have to team up and find their targets, work together with layouts to be able to do their job.
great post.
Great post UncleDave, right on the money.
I agree with everything except removing weapon mass. I concur that some weapons should have their mass reconsidered, but mass is very useful and should not be entirely eliminated. Also, I think it'd be cool if the speed of the charged cannon also increased when you charged it. So a 50% charge might do 1700 damage, and would go 180ms. A fully charged cannon would do 3400 damage and go 220ms. A non-charged cannon ("rapid fire") would go 140ms and do 400 damage. Well balanced IMHO.
Carrot. Cake.
crippled,
that was just because of the scp build. Before that it was only the mk2/mk3 and before that you had the gausses/sunflares/agt. But I do not agree to eldrad point that the agt was less usefull then the gauss at that time. In my opinion they were both as deadly as long as you used them effectively. Many old warthog-agt builds have made that clear.
Beside it was a rant, not everything needs to be on target :D
that was just because of the scp build. Before that it was only the mk2/mk3 and before that you had the gausses/sunflares/agt. But I do not agree to eldrad point that the agt was less usefull then the gauss at that time. In my opinion they were both as deadly as long as you used them effectively. Many old warthog-agt builds have made that clear.
Beside it was a rant, not everything needs to be on target :D
Roguelazer's charged cannon suggestion would make the charged cannon actually useful. I'd love to see that.
I agree as well. For all the ship-balancing we've been doing (whether one sees it as good or bad), nothing's happened to weapons at all yet. I've been kicking around a couple of ideas about how to approach it. Your Prom suggestions are interesting too. I like carrots.
I think I may tinker with some weapons stats over the weekend. I also have a few other things I want to mess around with (which I'll post about elsewhere), but we definitely need to straighten out the weapons we have before we add any new ones. All the tinkering and time I had spent on previous ship balancing led to the Behemoth being.. relatively (I think) well balanced right out the gate.
We've kicked around a lot of ideas and plans for statistical analysis of weapon "superiority", based on the large quantities of data we're recording about everything you guys do. But.. it's complex thing to make the statistics actually meaningful. I did most of the ship balancing by the seat of my pants, and I'll try doing the same with weapons and see where we end up. Of course, things may be a little chaotic in the meantime.. as it was with ships..
I think I may tinker with some weapons stats over the weekend. I also have a few other things I want to mess around with (which I'll post about elsewhere), but we definitely need to straighten out the weapons we have before we add any new ones. All the tinkering and time I had spent on previous ship balancing led to the Behemoth being.. relatively (I think) well balanced right out the gate.
We've kicked around a lot of ideas and plans for statistical analysis of weapon "superiority", based on the large quantities of data we're recording about everything you guys do. But.. it's complex thing to make the statistics actually meaningful. I did most of the ship balancing by the seat of my pants, and I'll try doing the same with weapons and see where we end up. Of course, things may be a little chaotic in the meantime.. as it was with ships..
>> which I'll post about elsewhere
Aww, c'mon man. Don't mess with my head like that. Since I read your post, I've been refreshing the forums every 30 seconds. I'll eat all your bandwidth if you don't post soon!
Aww, c'mon man. Don't mess with my head like that. Since I read your post, I've been refreshing the forums every 30 seconds. I'll eat all your bandwidth if you don't post soon!
Bugger it all to hell. I wanted to be CONTRAVERSIAL DAMMIT!
>.>
<.<
Ok, fine, I'm happy. :P
>.>
<.<
Ok, fine, I'm happy. :P
"All the tinkering and time I had spent on previous ship balancing led to the Behemoth being.. relatively (I think) well balanced right out the gate."
Damn right, its a ship which does exactly what its meant to do, and creates lots of interesting gameplay. Such as the always amusing
Guildchat: <sector blah> <Martin.Mac.au> MOTH!!
Well done, if all the other ships fit in so nicely at the "end" I'll be happy.
Damn right, its a ship which does exactly what its meant to do, and creates lots of interesting gameplay. Such as the always amusing
Guildchat: <sector blah> <Martin.Mac.au> MOTH!!
Well done, if all the other ships fit in so nicely at the "end" I'll be happy.
Holy crap.
The prom got a tweak, and its for the better, its slightly slower now and not quite so uber. -50 thrust and -0.5 spin torque worked great to balance it up, and the IBG/rev C got a slight bump down too to bring them in line with the vults/valks.
"Ok, fine, everyone's raving about all the new content that's coming. But Vendetta could be SO MUCH MORE EXCITING if there were more than 3-4 weapons high-end pilots could choose from."
Yay.
"Right now its the N3 and AGT."
Still good, no nerfs, can't complain.
"TPG/XGX phase blasters are useless because you cant HIT anything with them because they're so damn slow."
Sped up nicely :D
"Axia posis do less damage/second than N2s, let alone N3s, and are harder to hit with."
Also faster, very dangerous now. :P
"Flechettes are not in any way intimidating."
They're still pants, but at least they take next to no energy now, so they might pop up on larger ships a bit more.
"All straightfire rockets save the jackhammer are useless in fighter combat, and even the jackhammer is easily dodged."
The speedup is perfect. Fighters can use them, heavies can use them, and the weight makes them risky to dual-mount but not prohibitively heavy.
"Homing missiles are fire-and-forget, all they do is STALL fights and make things MORE BORING."
Still true, but with the new rockets, there's a viable counter.
"Railguns use a ridiculous amount of energy, are dodgeable even though they are nearly-no-autoaim (even at 200m)"
Less so now with the increased speed.
"And the charge cannon is pure, unadulterated poo."
Its fast enough to be scary when you know its charged, but not uber so that it can hit 100% of the time on a full charge. Win
"No I am not suggesting we all fly around in busses. I want to be SCARED of a hornet. I want to be able to fly a warthog and be able to do serious damage to a prom. I want to carry around a CHARGE CANNON without being laughed at and danced around. I want all ports on every ship to be useful, and not forsaken for some ridiculous agility contest which negates almost every other factor in combat, INCLUDING AIMING SKILL."
Now there's another kind of aiming back in town, rocket strafing. Ramming is only as effective as it ever was, but actually knowing when and how to use your secondaries is now crucial in combat and means that the previously one-trick-pony IBG pilots have to adjust to jousters and the AGT-only SCPs can't do jack against railgun users, or rocket proms/aggressos.
These weapon changes are almost all for the better.
However... with better weapons, we may need better/more interesting things to level off... :P
The prom got a tweak, and its for the better, its slightly slower now and not quite so uber. -50 thrust and -0.5 spin torque worked great to balance it up, and the IBG/rev C got a slight bump down too to bring them in line with the vults/valks.
"Ok, fine, everyone's raving about all the new content that's coming. But Vendetta could be SO MUCH MORE EXCITING if there were more than 3-4 weapons high-end pilots could choose from."
Yay.
"Right now its the N3 and AGT."
Still good, no nerfs, can't complain.
"TPG/XGX phase blasters are useless because you cant HIT anything with them because they're so damn slow."
Sped up nicely :D
"Axia posis do less damage/second than N2s, let alone N3s, and are harder to hit with."
Also faster, very dangerous now. :P
"Flechettes are not in any way intimidating."
They're still pants, but at least they take next to no energy now, so they might pop up on larger ships a bit more.
"All straightfire rockets save the jackhammer are useless in fighter combat, and even the jackhammer is easily dodged."
The speedup is perfect. Fighters can use them, heavies can use them, and the weight makes them risky to dual-mount but not prohibitively heavy.
"Homing missiles are fire-and-forget, all they do is STALL fights and make things MORE BORING."
Still true, but with the new rockets, there's a viable counter.
"Railguns use a ridiculous amount of energy, are dodgeable even though they are nearly-no-autoaim (even at 200m)"
Less so now with the increased speed.
"And the charge cannon is pure, unadulterated poo."
Its fast enough to be scary when you know its charged, but not uber so that it can hit 100% of the time on a full charge. Win
"No I am not suggesting we all fly around in busses. I want to be SCARED of a hornet. I want to be able to fly a warthog and be able to do serious damage to a prom. I want to carry around a CHARGE CANNON without being laughed at and danced around. I want all ports on every ship to be useful, and not forsaken for some ridiculous agility contest which negates almost every other factor in combat, INCLUDING AIMING SKILL."
Now there's another kind of aiming back in town, rocket strafing. Ramming is only as effective as it ever was, but actually knowing when and how to use your secondaries is now crucial in combat and means that the previously one-trick-pony IBG pilots have to adjust to jousters and the AGT-only SCPs can't do jack against railgun users, or rocket proms/aggressos.
These weapon changes are almost all for the better.
However... with better weapons, we may need better/more interesting things to level off... :P