Forums » Suggestions
corvus standing
I was thinking about this yesterday. A lot of people complain about pirates just being scrupuless killers who don't care about cargo. How about if you enter a corvus station with stolen cargo, and sell it there for a price lower then their normal bidding price you get a little standing increase. This way real pirating makes more sense, cause you actually have a reason to jack someones cargo.
i'd go for it.
the question, however, is: how would the game define "stolen" cargo? i would submit two rules: 1) no ores, or any products that can be brought into existence by any means other than buying them at a station (e.g. scrap metal), should be eligible for this benefit. 2) any cargo that passes the first rule should be eligible for the benefit, provided the seller is not the original purchaser.
this would, of course, require the game to tag each piece of cargo with the original purchaser's id. dunno if it already does this.
the exploit is of course immediately obvious: two traders go into a station, fill up their centaurs with goods, then leave. each one dumps all his cargo, then picks up the other's cargo. they then roll into a corvus station. PROFIT!
the fix for the exploit has been suggested a number of times before; make faction standing more of a zero-sum game. an increase in corvus standing should give you a slight decrease in the standing of every other commercial faction (i.e. except serco and itani) until you're no greater than, say, 400, or maybe 200. that is to say, it shouldn't be possible to make yourself KOS with other factions just by trading with corvus, but one should be required to choose between being admired by corvus or admired by other commercial factions.
(as a side note, i feel that this relationship should be even more stringently enforced between serco and itani, i.e. if you're admired by one you shouldn't be able to be above 200 with the other, if you're 800+ with one you shouldn't be greater than 0 with the other.)
the question, however, is: how would the game define "stolen" cargo? i would submit two rules: 1) no ores, or any products that can be brought into existence by any means other than buying them at a station (e.g. scrap metal), should be eligible for this benefit. 2) any cargo that passes the first rule should be eligible for the benefit, provided the seller is not the original purchaser.
this would, of course, require the game to tag each piece of cargo with the original purchaser's id. dunno if it already does this.
the exploit is of course immediately obvious: two traders go into a station, fill up their centaurs with goods, then leave. each one dumps all his cargo, then picks up the other's cargo. they then roll into a corvus station. PROFIT!
the fix for the exploit has been suggested a number of times before; make faction standing more of a zero-sum game. an increase in corvus standing should give you a slight decrease in the standing of every other commercial faction (i.e. except serco and itani) until you're no greater than, say, 400, or maybe 200. that is to say, it shouldn't be possible to make yourself KOS with other factions just by trading with corvus, but one should be required to choose between being admired by corvus or admired by other commercial factions.
(as a side note, i feel that this relationship should be even more stringently enforced between serco and itani, i.e. if you're admired by one you shouldn't be able to be above 200 with the other, if you're 800+ with one you shouldn't be greater than 0 with the other.)
I think that this should apply for all cargo, and not just at Corvus. I think this was posted in one of the other threads I replied to as well...
-:sigma.SB
-:sigma.SB
Any cargo, mined, purchased or killed for, should be able to pass your rule #1. It's less of the fact that it's easy to get but that it was acquired by means of "pirating". There needs to be a death to activate the tag on the cargo and could not simply be "jettisoned" from your cargo bay and retreaved by a friend. I really like this idea. It means that people will actually do some real pirating (plunder for profit!).
As far as factions and how they interact. I've always thought that if your high in one nation your low in another, though the independent companies should all be neutral to the main three factions, and have there own enemies and friends between the independent companies. But that's just my thoughts.
As far as factions and how they interact. I've always thought that if your high in one nation your low in another, though the independent companies should all be neutral to the main three factions, and have there own enemies and friends between the independent companies. But that's just my thoughts.
I suspect there is a method called on death that decides how your cargo is distributed into space. The cargo can be tagged at that time with your userid and a "pirated" flag. (So you can't get faction benefit from typing /explode, then retrieving and selling your own cargo.)
The zero-sum faction arrangement would prevent most further abuses.
The zero-sum faction arrangement would prevent most further abuses.
Why do you keep saying that corvus is a pirate faction?
It's not. It's the most trader faction of all the trader factions. How else would they get all that junk they sell?
There is no such thing as a pirate faction.
It's not. It's the most trader faction of all the trader factions. How else would they get all that junk they sell?
There is no such thing as a pirate faction.
Good point genka. I say we add a pirate faction! With a secret pirate base that is only accessible to pirates. With it's own pirate equipment, weapons, ships, Stations of course. The whole nine yards. Just put the wh in a secret spot and let us find it though. If everyone knows about it then what's to keep the non-pirates out?
/givemoney Devs 2c
/givemoney Devs 2c
From the map description of odia.
Odia: Unclaimed system, Reported to be headquarters of pirate operation Corvus Prime.
Odia: Unclaimed system, Reported to be headquarters of pirate operation Corvus Prime.
Ok but I still want my secret base....
@johnhawl218:
so there needs to be a death involved before it counts as piracy? that seems a bit silly. if someone pulls in behind your ship and says "dump the cargo or i let vacuum in", you dump the cargo, and the two of you part ways, that sure sounds like piracy to me, and frankly, i wish there were an incentive for pirates to do that rather than demand cash on the barrelhead.
the point of rule one is to discourage people from, say, skulking around a sector where someone else is botting, picking up the ore ejected from dead bots, and then running off to corvus and claiming to have "pirated" that ore - or worse yet, to discourage people from combing through asteroid fields looking for miners and picking up the ore they jettison. i suppose both instances are technically theft, and thus piracy, but they seem more on the order of, say, digging through someone's trash and stealing soda cans for the deposit rather than mugging them in a dark alley. the second adds danger and excitement to the game, the first is just pathetic.
besides, in VO ore is the easiest thing in the world to acquire (well, except for certain rare ores). i hardly think corvus would reward someone for stealing a hold full of aquean; they'd be more like "oh, thanks, put it in the back with the other ten thousand crates" :)
so there needs to be a death involved before it counts as piracy? that seems a bit silly. if someone pulls in behind your ship and says "dump the cargo or i let vacuum in", you dump the cargo, and the two of you part ways, that sure sounds like piracy to me, and frankly, i wish there were an incentive for pirates to do that rather than demand cash on the barrelhead.
the point of rule one is to discourage people from, say, skulking around a sector where someone else is botting, picking up the ore ejected from dead bots, and then running off to corvus and claiming to have "pirated" that ore - or worse yet, to discourage people from combing through asteroid fields looking for miners and picking up the ore they jettison. i suppose both instances are technically theft, and thus piracy, but they seem more on the order of, say, digging through someone's trash and stealing soda cans for the deposit rather than mugging them in a dark alley. the second adds danger and excitement to the game, the first is just pathetic.
besides, in VO ore is the easiest thing in the world to acquire (well, except for certain rare ores). i hardly think corvus would reward someone for stealing a hold full of aquean; they'd be more like "oh, thanks, put it in the back with the other ten thousand crates" :)
"dump the cargo or i let vacuum in"
<--- first of all vacuum doesn't come "in". But I guess i'm just not familure with all the sayings in vo.
Ok hakamadare, first off how many players actually jettison their cargo? Or how many pay you 20k or w/e to let them alone? Barely any.
Second of all who in the world would run around collecting scrap? Anyone can kill bots that's just a time waster. Besides it would probably only work on players. I don't think anyone who could kill an orun would do this....
/givemoney Devs 2c
<--- first of all vacuum doesn't come "in". But I guess i'm just not familure with all the sayings in vo.
Ok hakamadare, first off how many players actually jettison their cargo? Or how many pay you 20k or w/e to let them alone? Barely any.
Second of all who in the world would run around collecting scrap? Anyone can kill bots that's just a time waster. Besides it would probably only work on players. I don't think anyone who could kill an orun would do this....
/givemoney Devs 2c
@Hakamadare
Your right, picking up someones dumped cargo is not piracy unless it's at the end of a neutron canon pointed at your engines, but there is no "formal" way to pirate that the game recognizes, which is why I suggested the death approach. There should be a more comprehensive pirate mechanics put in place for those that want to do that sort of thing. Some of those things have already been suggested in many other posts, wether they are ever implemented is up to the devs.
Your right, picking up someones dumped cargo is not piracy unless it's at the end of a neutron canon pointed at your engines, but there is no "formal" way to pirate that the game recognizes, which is why I suggested the death approach. There should be a more comprehensive pirate mechanics put in place for those that want to do that sort of thing. Some of those things have already been suggested in many other posts, wether they are ever implemented is up to the devs.
@KixKizzle:
eh, if a big scary pirate asked me to jettison cargo or be destroyed, i'd give the idea some serious consideration, especially if i were in a slow ship. i guess i shouldn't say this in a public forum, but i've paid pirates not to kill me before, and the transaction went quite smoothly (except for the one time i couldn't /msg fast enough).
and as for "who would run around picking up scrap", i wouldn't have thought that anyone would volunteer to let anyone kill them so that the other person could get easy XP, but apparently that happens. if a particular game mechanic is exploitable, some people will exploit it (believe me - i've been a GM for multiplayer online games before, and the creativity of cheaters is beyond belief). the only way to stop cheating is to make it more profitable for people to play fair, and that requires serious thought and planning. i'm just trying to think a step or two ahead.
@johnhawl218:
well, the two rules i suggested would constitute a simple, formal definition of stolen cargo. my point is that since ore is so easy to come by, there shouldn't be a black market in stolen ore, but there should be one for other goods, which would give pirates an incentive to plunder. i honestly don't think there need to be any more complicated piracy mechanics than that; do you? if so, what?
eh, if a big scary pirate asked me to jettison cargo or be destroyed, i'd give the idea some serious consideration, especially if i were in a slow ship. i guess i shouldn't say this in a public forum, but i've paid pirates not to kill me before, and the transaction went quite smoothly (except for the one time i couldn't /msg fast enough).
and as for "who would run around picking up scrap", i wouldn't have thought that anyone would volunteer to let anyone kill them so that the other person could get easy XP, but apparently that happens. if a particular game mechanic is exploitable, some people will exploit it (believe me - i've been a GM for multiplayer online games before, and the creativity of cheaters is beyond belief). the only way to stop cheating is to make it more profitable for people to play fair, and that requires serious thought and planning. i'm just trying to think a step or two ahead.
@johnhawl218:
well, the two rules i suggested would constitute a simple, formal definition of stolen cargo. my point is that since ore is so easy to come by, there shouldn't be a black market in stolen ore, but there should be one for other goods, which would give pirates an incentive to plunder. i honestly don't think there need to be any more complicated piracy mechanics than that; do you? if so, what?
let this pirateholes position be discovered after a string of missions completed to be of the pirateprofession.
rest of the explanation can be found in one of the threads about pirates where I posted in.
rest of the explanation can be found in one of the threads about pirates where I posted in.
@Hakamadare
I like Phaserlights idea a lot, and there should be others like that as well. Possible incursions into some of the nation territories to pirate smaller, unmarked convoys. We all see the atlas's flying here and there, couldn't one or two of them be carrying special cargo that's not been announce on the transport channels. You take the mission from a Corvos station and they give you the exact pilot name and a system you'll be able to find him in. Then you have got get him to jettison cargo. There was a mission that made you get someone down to almost "0" and then he fled, perhaps something like that, you get him down but not blown up, to get the jettison.
What I ment about more comprehensive pirate mechanics would be either more missions specifically to pirate goods, like I mentioned above, or more equipment that could be used to force the jettison issue, which have all been mentioned before in other posts such as disableing rockets, being able to board, ship capture, tracter beams, etc.
I like Phaserlights idea a lot, and there should be others like that as well. Possible incursions into some of the nation territories to pirate smaller, unmarked convoys. We all see the atlas's flying here and there, couldn't one or two of them be carrying special cargo that's not been announce on the transport channels. You take the mission from a Corvos station and they give you the exact pilot name and a system you'll be able to find him in. Then you have got get him to jettison cargo. There was a mission that made you get someone down to almost "0" and then he fled, perhaps something like that, you get him down but not blown up, to get the jettison.
What I ment about more comprehensive pirate mechanics would be either more missions specifically to pirate goods, like I mentioned above, or more equipment that could be used to force the jettison issue, which have all been mentioned before in other posts such as disableing rockets, being able to board, ship capture, tracter beams, etc.