Specifically the Centurions. They have exceptional acceleration, exceptional speed, good cargo space for ships their size, AND infiniboost. Nothing in space can out run it. What's the point of flying anything other than a centurion if there is no possible way of disengaging combat?

I'm just shaking my head in disbelief that nothing was done about them in the last update.

The Centurions are currently the kings of CtC. I mean, what is CtC other than a giant race. It's a race to get to the transport, kill the transport (defend the transport), get the cargo, and race back to your home space. With their 8 cargo space, the Centurions can easily carry all the cargo until at least Wednesday or Thursday when transports start carrying 9 and more. And with their speed and infiniboost, there's no way of catching them again.

I just watched thunderbird enter the sector about the same distance from the transport as I (a bit over 1000m), he in his Centurion (III, I believe) and I in my Mineral Extractor Warthog. His cent has a top speed 40 m/s higher than me (230m/s verses 190 m/s) and his higher acceleration means that he hits his top speed long before I hit mine. So he just leaves me in the dust as he boosts, kills the transport, takes the cargo, and runs away all before I reach my full speed, and before I get 500m from where the transport was. I could do nothing except watch him fly away because I know there's no way in hell that I can catch up with him. The same thing happens when I retrieve cargo. I get the cargo, and it takes me 5000m to accelerate to 190 m/s. This means that an unladen Centurion has no trouble staying within firing range of me, so it's absolutely impossible for me to get 4000m to a wormhole unless they're way over 2000m to start with.

At least reduce their cargo space so that they cannot carry more than 1 or 2 cargo so they can't singlehandedly catch, kill, and carry CtC cargo. Another change would be a turbo drain of at least 51 so while they can boost away for quite a long time, they'd still have to make a slight pause at the wormhole to give the slower fighters a remote CHANCE of catching up.

I think the cent is balanced just fine. Paper thin armor, 1 small port and a lot of speed. Any skilled pilot could drop one in a few strafe passes.

Why would you be doin ctc in a mining ship? You are flying one of the slowest ships in the game of course a Centurian is going to smoke you, just about any fighter would be able to.

Of couse if you did get to the cargo before he did you should be able to waste him due to the fact that the Centurian has very light armor/weapons. Flying Centurians is a double edged sword, if you can get the cargo your gone, but if you don't there isn't very much you can do unless your up against someone who is less skilled than you are.

forget about running... If a centurion is anywhere under 2000m away, it has a very good chance of catching warthog carrying cargo.

And I fly the Miner Hog cuz where I'm homed, they only sell the Hog I, the Hog III, Hog IV, and Miner Hog. For some reason, the II is nowhere to be found. But even if I were in a II and not this Miner Hog, I still would not be able to beat a centurion to the cargo, or be able to escape afterwards. I smoked a centurion grabbing the cargo once because I was lucky enough to jump out close to the transport. But then I ended up dying trying to get from Ukari to Initros because I was 5000m away from the wormhole, and the Centurion started 1100m away. The Cent caught me before I got to 3000m from the hole.

I don't think the Mining Hog is meant to be a match for a Cent. The other Hogs I think are close. But if you really want to beat a Cent, get something with armor. A Prom or a Maud can beat a Cent in most situations.

beo, don't you think there is something flawed with your idea?

You need 1 of the special ships to be able to take out one of the cheapest ship...

Not to mention that I seriously doubt that a prom can catch a a centurion.

Neither a prom nor a maud could catch or even come close to keeping up with a cent. Infini-boost at 230 means it easily escapes anything unless the cent gets unlucky.

I think the centurion is fine - the fact that it only has like 6800 armor means that just a few hits whatever weapon you have equipped in your large port should do the trick.

I do a lot in centurions and even I get hit by pirates sometimes, especially if I'm stupid enough to think I can run through a good crossfire. Getting away isn't just a matter of infiniboost - I have to dodge well because any weapons they have will smoke me. It's a trade off.

The centurion has all speed and no power - it has one small port and no armor. Maybe you should consider a different home port :)

Another thing - I recently had a chase in a Warthog (IV, not a Mineral Extractor, but with a boost energy usage of 65) and was able to get away from Chewy in his Ragnarok, which had comparable speed and has infiniboost or close. It's more a matter of skill than anything else, and making sure that you catch Chewy when his heart isn't really into it. He wouldn't even chase me into Serco space the other day. Pirates just don't have heart anymore... ;)

Seems to me that a long-range fast missile that totally drains the target's battery (but otherwise does nothing) could make this a bit more interesting.

the centurion is exactly what it is supposed to be, just be cause a mining ship full of cargo cant catch it means nothing. Theres lots of ways to one hit kill a centurion, the only tweak i see really needing being done to it is its cargo lowered. Making it so all the ships can able to cover the same distance/time as each other makes it so no one can catch each other.

I only see one problem: the cargospace.

> beo, don't you think there is something flawed with your idea?

No. The Cent is a fighter/interceptor, why should mining ships be able to fight it?

> You need 1 of the special ships to be able to take out one of the cheapest ship...

You don't _need_ a nation special ship, it would just be the easiest way to go. I think this is a great example of how in VO a pilot's skill is more important than his ship. A better pilot could probably fly almost anything & kill a worse pilot in a cent.

> Not to mention that I seriously doubt that a prom can catch a a centurion.

Well, duh. That's the way it's supposed to be, the centurian is supposed to be the fastest ship in the game. But if it does stay & fight, a good prom pilot will likely smoke the cent.

> I only see one problem: the cargospace.

Maybe, maybe not. Cargo space has its own tradeoffs, if the cent fills up with anything very heavy, it loses a lot of its advantage.

[Due to a lack of a formal complaint department, this is moved to Suggestions.]

I see a lot of arguments defending the cent here that dont look at the real issue.

You are correct, it has very little armor and firepower, and in a head to head battle, the cent is easy to kill. The PROBLEM is that itsnot IN a head to head battle, it's grabbing the CtC cargo and running, you never get close enough to get one pass at it, much less the two or three needed to kill it. If the cargo of the cent was cut WAY down(1-2 cargo max, please), so that it was ONLY useful as a fighter, and not as a snatch and grab CtC ship, then i think most of the complaints would go away.

As for those of you who are going to say "well, then just use another centurion if you cant catch the centurion" 2 things.
1- thats not good gameplay, for everyone to be forced to use 1 ship because there are no other options,
2- even in another cent, you cant catch the first one when its running.

Beo,

the flaw in your argument was that you explicitely stated that you needed specials to take them out. You even indicated the prom.

To that I then gave my concerns about me having the opinion that the prom would be unable to catch it.

And now you pull them all out of their context and then add some new stuff to try and proof a point :D

On which I naturally agree, my post was just to get all your reasons out in stead of the superflicious ones of a prom and a maud can take it out(if it sticks and fights). However the concern was what if it does not stick and fights, but runs. And that was the prime concern of the original poster, since Im sure that if the cent would have sticked around crippled would have taken it out in his hog. But crippled didn't have a chance in hell to catch it...

so... i agree to the cargo drop in the cent. BUT ONLY ON SOME OF THEM AND NOT TO 1-2. the cent that comes to mind is the 240 max, that one could be cargo 6
and the other 8, and as for the cent

IT IS an INTERCEPTER.

lets look at it in Starwars Shale we. there are 4 tie fighters.
Tie Intercepter=Cent
Tie Fighter=Vol
Tie Bomber=Wraith/Rag
DV Tie=Special ship

so, if anyone has played any starwars game on n64 they know the intercepter has no life, and low damage but is FAST

i hope you get it. WHAT you don't like the empire. well the how about the rebellion

A-Wing=Cent
X-wing=vol
Y-wing=Wraith/Rag
Millennium falcon=special ship

if you still don't get it, watch the movie, play the games, model the ships, and create your own starwars movie (very fun to do ;()

now by complaining about the cent being to fast, boo f**king Who, out smart them, or admit defeat, try to get ahead of it, jump to a sector you think it will be going to, OR destroy it before it gets to the cargo.

and think of it in the long terms, when the cap ships come, cents will be flying around them like flies, AND hogs will be the Horse fly.

Now, as for fighting them... i dare you to get in one, get a light weapon, and go bot assault bots, see how long you last.

Summary: (almost done)

if you change the cent and make it easier to catch, i will jab it SO FAR UP YOU WARTHOG, that you'll have to fly a wraith just to even the difference.

Spellcast: exactly. That's almost like the "Use the Valk to kill the Valk" (which I've also had told to me several times) argument.

Knight_of_Order: not wanting to antagonize you, but you didn't mention that the A-Wing, the TIE Fighter, and TIE Interceptor are basically cockpits with engines. They have absolutely NO cargo space. And before you say anything, until I started working on leveling my heavy weapons, the centurion was ALL I used. In fact, in beta and in early release, I was one of the only people who flew centurions routinely.

Here are several centurion/warthog scenarios:
-The hog starts close to the centurion and/or the transport: The centurion gets to the transport before the warthog, kills the transport, but is bagged before it can boost away.
-The hog starts far from the centurion and/or the transport: The hog pilot can do nothing except watch the centurion kill the transport, collect all the cargo, and run away. There's no hope of catching the centurion afterwards.
-The hog has the cargo and the centurion starts 1500m away: The hog still has no chance if he has to run more than 2000m. The hog pilot will not have reached full speed until he gets to his destination while the centurion can accelerate to a much higher speed far faster. The Centurion's higher speed and infiniboost means that he can easily get to full speed, shoot up the hog's rear and keep boosting, tapping the boost key to stay in range and slowly recharge his battery. There is absolutely no chance for the hog to get away from a centurion - not unless BY CHANCE the centurion starts so far away that he cannot get in range to shoot before the hog jumps.

I only had four jumps against the centurion before I was wiped out. The first was out of Sedina B8 after I'd killed the centurion and taken the cargo. The second was out of the Latos wormhole when the centurion arrived after I'd already started running. In running to the Latos->Ukari wormhole, as I'd arrived in the sector several seconds earlier than the centurion, I made the 2500m run without damage, but the centurion had held his fire despite closing to under 300m. In leaving the Latos wormhole, I started 1800m from the limit and the centurion started about 1300m away, so I had no problem getting away. In fact, the centurion recognized that he had no chance of catching me before I jumped, so he took the fast route out of the sector as well. I got killed before reaching the Ukari->Initros wormhole because that run was around 5000m and the centurion was 1100m away. He easily caught up to me before I hit full speed and killed me before I hit 2000m from the wormhole. I knew that I had every disadvantage in that fight, but I was still hoping that I could overcome the odds. Well definitely not. At least if the centurion didn't have the cargo space to take the cargo afterwards, then I'd have been able to return to get some of it. But I was able to watch him grab the cargo and run before the death animation ended. Even though I'm only homed on the other side of the Initros wormhole, he had already left the sector before I returned.

If the centurion is to have the fastest infiniboost in the game, then I think that it would be intended for slashing hit-and-run attacks. It is small and light, so that would seem to me that it is a dedicated combat fighter. All extra weight is trimmed off for maximum speed. This means eggshell armor, no cargo space, and only a single weapon port, but it also means blinding speed and maneuverability. But as it is, it has eggshell armor, a single weapon port, blinding speed and maneuverability, AND it has enough cargo space to be the all around best CtC runner. Even better than the Marauder and Valkyrie.

Here's the problem as I see it. A properly outfitted Cent is fast AND packs quite a punch with the proper weapons.

This lets them jump in, wipe out their target, and get the heck out before anyone can stop them. It seems to me that the price to pay for a fast, maneuverable ship is a reduction in firepower. This is partially done by limiting it to one weapon port, but apparently the transports are only able to hold up a few seconds against a good pilot.

So things that might bring it back in line....

* slightly increase the energy drain for boosting. Thus less energy is available for fighting when the cent gets to the transport. Might take away infiniboost.

* limit it to a medium battery.

* make the transports tougher so that they a) fight back more effectively, b) are harder to kill. If it takes 1-2 minutes to kill one with the best guns, then there is time for the defenders to make a difference. Cent's do well in hit and run attacks. If they have to stick around and slug it out a bit, they will be at a disadvantage.

Just some observations..of these I like the idea of making the transports hard to kill the best.

But what the heck to I know, I've never CtC'd.

i agree w lowering the cargo space.

What happens in a couple of weeks when the "Cap Ship" i out, i think maybe the ctc might be focused on that a little more, or maybe it will be destroy the cap ship. who nows,

What what, i see it now, 3 months from now when players are able to buy the cap ship, i see the complaint.

"it's too big, its to slow, its to fast, its cargo space is too high, its this, its that. boo who.

Take it as it is, maybe decrease the cargo by 2 but NOTHING else (unless it was planned because the devs think its fair, unfair)

i mean do we complain because the f-22 is stealth, and the f-16 is not?

"it's different" HOW? the cent is a GREAT ship, its good, but not everyone can fly it, *I* ALWAYS die flying it. i die botting in it, hell, i have even hit a roid and gone BOOM in it.

veridic, GREAT intercepter but jer...Knight will not be flying it for anything but get to point a faster then in atlas. THATS IT.

(well maybe i might use it for quick small cargo steals)

just look at ananzi's story (i think: Skin of my teeth")