ActualMaxTurboSpeed = BaseMaxTurboSpeed*(1 - 0.5*(BaseHullPoints - CurrentHullPoints)/BaseHullPoints)

As your hull integrity approaches 0% your turbo speed would approach 1/2 your normal turbo speed. Of course the 0.5 factor would be adjusted based on testing.

This would simulate actual damage to the engine system or the max speed the damaged hull will support. The first couple hits a pirate gets on a ship to be more significant. A pilot about to lose a fight would no longer have as easy an escape to 3000m).
I have no illusions this would solve all of the problems in PvP play, but it might be an easy start to make.

Thoughts?

Half might be a bit much, making thos random run-ins with sneak asteroid attacks kinda tedius to fly away from, having your speed cut all the way to 100m/s seems just a bit harsh.

hmmmm, cutting it to 67% (2/3) might work. Especially if at the same time you increased the warp-out distance by the same amount, (a badly damaged ship only goes 130m/s and has to travel to 4k?)

Its an interesting thought.

It has the virtue of being a novel solution. But, it's alot more harsh than my proposed critical hit system. On the other hand, it isn't random. Not only do some players just balk at any suggestion which adds randomness, but it saves the server having to generate random numbers.

Still, it would greatly magnify the first strike problem. And in the case of close fights, it doesn't really solve the problem. The opponent can still get away because the hunter is rather crippled as well.

This is one of those things you'd almost have to test to really get a good grasp on.

Perhaps if instead of turbo speed you made it turbo acceleration? That way when a damaged pilot turned to run he would be going very slow for a bit, affording the other pilot a chance to get those last few hits in. If you did escape or smack into an asteroid, you could still achieve max speed eventually, but it would be like going from a centurion to a centaur in midflight.

I'm not so sure there IS a first strike problem. If you're not aware or are skillfully ambushed, then your attacker earned his combat advantage. The only spot where it's a problem is exiting from a wormhole... which I may have a solution to. Please view my thread on the subject, as I don't think its quite appropriate here. ( http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/8091 )

hmmm, now theres an idea i like starfisher. if you change it to the turbo acceleration instead of the top speed..

well as celebrim said, it has the virtue of being a novel solution.

I say we leave it the way it is. Maybe you like capturing people when they try to escape now. But you won't like not being able to escape later.

Yeah the multiplier would really need to be tested to provide a level of challenge for each side.

Making it effect acceleration and or the jump distance are good ideas. I am hoping that depending on the game framework one or more of these ideas would be easy to implement.

gamejunky: believe it or not I am not a pirate, in fact I do not have a single player kill to my name and about 7 or so deaths. And yet I think it is a little to easy to escape a pirate as it is now. Death really isnt that bad and there are quite a few relatively safe areas in the game. As it is now it is all to easy to escape from a fight if you are running a little low on health. Still one other thing I would like to see improved is the protection at Nation stations and monitored space.

"Maybe you like capturing people when they try to escape now."
The problem is you can't.

I think this type of solution might make tracking missiles overpowered. With turbo compromised it would be much harder to dodge swarms and gems. It might also be more disadvantage to heavies than lights. A heavy has to use turbo just for basic positioning sometimes when a light can get away with regular maneuvering thrusters.

The problem is that damage is too general. The HUD shows where you're damaged, but it doesn't effect anything other than you die at 0. I like the critical hit idea, but only for hits on the engine. A better general solution would be for the engine to overheat eventually. You can upgrade your cooling system, and different ships would have different natural cool rates. Normal thrust would generate certain heat (probably never be a problem) and turbo would generate more heat. Maybe you could upgrade to a more efficient turbo, as well. I agree, though, I can run away from anything with my FC Batt. :)

I think that critical hits are feasible as long as it only takes off a small portion of acceleration/top speed. Anything too large and you couldn't even run away from a bot let alone a player with low damage. So if this is ever implimented please dont' make botting too dangerous. Having my speed cut in half would make it impossible to run from a tycorp :)

/givemoney Devs 2c

Definately, not too extreme loss. That's for my EMP torpedo idea. Now, if you totally demolished the engine, and somehow didn't blow up the ship (should be very hard to do, since engine is hooked up to reactor, or whatever) then the ship would be helpless. Should never happen against bots, since they always hit the front or side of your ship. This is why I like my overheating idea.

why not take the initially mentioned equation and apply it only to engine damage? That way if the engine was fully in the red, your speed would max out at half... Wouldn't happen too often since it's very hard to hit a ship from behind.

and about the infinite turbo, which really wasn't mentioned in this topic: why should a battery recharge when it's being used? maybe increase the max. capacities of each battery by a bit (50/100/200/300) or something, and then they could only recharge when not being used. Maybe the recharge rate could be increased a bit too. Whatever makes the most balance.

A battery "recharges" all on its own, at all times; it's a question of whether it is drained more quickly than it's charged.

This idea is interesting from a tactical perspective, but flawed in that it assumes shots are fired at all; while it is an interesting supplimental concept, or even a short term standalone solution, it's not adequate long term.

I think Spellcast has the best proposed solution to this problem, with the three possible engine port modifications, since it allows the pilot to choose between one of several benefits, each with its own advantages.

"This idea is interesting from a tactical perspective, but flawed in that it assumes shots are fired at all; while it is an interesting supplimental concept, or even a short term standalone solution, it's not adequate long term."

OOoookkk. What would be a long term solution to the problem of damaged players escaping when they should die, then? Of course it assumes shots are fired. It's designed to prevent people from easily escaping a fight that they are about to lose. What VALID flaws are there with it? What makes it a short term solution but not a long term one? The only way something can only be a "short term" solution is if there are changes that invalidate it in the future - what changes do you know about that we don't?

If you are going to try and sound smart, you have to post something that makes us believe it... little one liners held together with semicolons that belittle an idea without any supporting evidence or analysis are worthless.

I have already discussed this at length, as have others. Consult the search function.

I don't want to reiterate pages of typing when two of my fingers are numb.

The devs are workin on this (the too easy to escape part) for the next patch. They are gonna eliminate infini-turbo, which will hopefully help out the ones chasing a damaged player. Since the smaller ships are gonna have increased speed, I would really like to see Doubled's equation (with star's turbo acceleration penalty thing) intigrated. It certainly would make things more realistic w/o makin it too hard to run.

Consulting... done.

You haven't discussed what a degradation in the ability of a ship to accelerate due to damage would do to combat, nor have you elaborated on what long range changes would make it an invalid "long term solution". Please, do.

Even assuming a1k0n's triple the mass triple the torque is implemented, along with an increase in the top speeds of the standard PvP ships and the elimination of infini-boost, you'll still have a problem with running away. Increasing the linear top speed of the combat ships would probably even make the problem worse, as the attacker would have a narrower window to match courses with the target to make the last few shots. There has to be some penalty for getting beaten down to the red in combat, one that gives a skilled player a chance to make the kill but that doesn't completely gimp someone who is damaged. A decrease in his turbo acceleration seems like just the thing - not the end of the world, but enough that if you try to pull some of the running stunts you see now you'll get killed.

Of course Anevitt has a point. We'll have to wait and see what the devs throw at us next monday or tuesday. Who knows, maybe the game will be perfect! ;P

Maybe. I do not like the idea of damage reducing ship performance in the least. It actually REMOVES skill from the game, because if someone gets a couple of lucky hits, they suddenly have a great equalizer to help them, so they might be able to win against someone who, in an equal footing, could have won easily.

You are suggesting we introduce the "StarCraft effect," where once you start losing, you are almost sure to keep losing unless your opponent goes to sleep on you.

Without ship degradation, a good pilot who gets hit by a lucky n00b, or lags, or sneezes, or has their cat/kid/wife/etc interrupt them, has a real chance to recover, if their skill is enough to offset the headstart their opponent has.

With ship degradation, combat is basically reduced to a game of sudden death where whomever can get off a lucky hit first is probably going to win, and at the very least, can decide to run themselves if they realize they're outclassed before their opponent can hit them hard enough to re-equalize the match.

It's also worth mentioning that having your ship underperform is a source of huge frustration, which won't make the game more fun, except to the lucky and more skilled. Making it so that being less skilled than your opponent is magnified as you are hurt worse and worse is not a great way to make this game newbie friendly, which it is already not.

What effect would this have on botting? I mean, aside from forcing everyone to run back to base to repair if they get hit even a couple times, because of lag, or lack of skill, or whatever. In other words, you're suggesting we make botting even more tedious.

What about wormhole ganking?

You just need a few lucky hits, and your victim can't run, and you can easily have friends intercept and terminate them at other WHs, even if they manage to escape you at less than full performance. Same goes for station ganking.

I could go on, but I hope this is enough to prove my point.