Forums » Suggestions
Group trade missions
Pretty please?
To expand on Phaserlight's exhaustive description, some thoughts:
1) How does cargo distribution work? If the mission is "get these 100 units to station X", you need a way to share the cargo with team mates. Should one player dump cargo outside a station for teammates to pick up? Or does everyone get the same amount of cargo in the station's hold for them to pick up?
2) While you could get a group of Centaurs together, it would probably be more interesting to have some pilots without cargo flying as escorts. This wasn't very practical when the cargo capacities of the ships were all rather similar. Now that a Centaur can carry about 10 times as much as a Vulture (depending on variation), this is a more interesting option.
As an example, for a group of 4 pilots with skill levels at 4+, the mission could give the group 80 cargo. The group could either use 2 Centaurs and 2 escort fighters, or everyone flies ships that can take 20 cargo each (don't know which ones off hand). It looks like the game is now capable of creating cargo that uses more than 1cu per crate, which could force at least one pilot in the group to fly a large ship.
3) Why do you need to travel in groups? Most of the current problems (storms & pirates) don't seem like a compelling reason to make a formal mission out of it. So there needs to be something more to the mission that requires safety in numbers or dedicated escorts. Blockade running comes to mind, but I'm not sure where to set up an NPC pirate blockade that doesn't drag innocent passers-by into the fray (e.g. wormholes in unclaimed space). I suppose if the NPC pirates could took over the "air space" around a remote station it would affect fewer people than a wormhole.
Just some random thoughts.
1) How does cargo distribution work? If the mission is "get these 100 units to station X", you need a way to share the cargo with team mates. Should one player dump cargo outside a station for teammates to pick up? Or does everyone get the same amount of cargo in the station's hold for them to pick up?
2) While you could get a group of Centaurs together, it would probably be more interesting to have some pilots without cargo flying as escorts. This wasn't very practical when the cargo capacities of the ships were all rather similar. Now that a Centaur can carry about 10 times as much as a Vulture (depending on variation), this is a more interesting option.
As an example, for a group of 4 pilots with skill levels at 4+, the mission could give the group 80 cargo. The group could either use 2 Centaurs and 2 escort fighters, or everyone flies ships that can take 20 cargo each (don't know which ones off hand). It looks like the game is now capable of creating cargo that uses more than 1cu per crate, which could force at least one pilot in the group to fly a large ship.
3) Why do you need to travel in groups? Most of the current problems (storms & pirates) don't seem like a compelling reason to make a formal mission out of it. So there needs to be something more to the mission that requires safety in numbers or dedicated escorts. Blockade running comes to mind, but I'm not sure where to set up an NPC pirate blockade that doesn't drag innocent passers-by into the fray (e.g. wormholes in unclaimed space). I suppose if the NPC pirates could took over the "air space" around a remote station it would affect fewer people than a wormhole.
Just some random thoughts.
Thanks for getting the ball rolling, Klox
1) How does cargo distribution work?
I kind of envison this working a little bit like the convoy wars we have now. If the mission is to get 100 units to station X, then 100 units are created at the start location which all group members can see and can load onto their ships. The xp and money payoff is related to how many units you deliver to the target destination.
Another way to handle this would be to have the station automatically load units into each member of the group's cargo hold when they dock with the start location.
2) Escorts
I think it would be cool to have escorts somehow involved in the group trade missions, but perhaps this could be done as a linked mission. The reason for this is that players who participate in group trade missions would probably be getting trade xp for completing the mission, and combat xp would be more appropriate for an escort mission. Some members of the trade group could volunteer to be the escort and fly a fighter ship, but if xp were proportional to the amount of units delivered then the payoff would not be as great for them. Two potential solutions would be to just let the rest of the group compensate the escorts with credits, or to split the xp reward among the group evenly.
3) Why travel in groups?
For protection. There's a lot of pirates out there, and you don't want your group members going off on their own and getting themselves killed and losing the cargo, thereby causing the entire group's mission to fail. A good group leader would keep his trade convoy together, moving at the pace of the slowest member.
Blockade running would also be cool, but perhaps as a sort of advanced group trade mission? Care to go into a little more detail on this idea? How would it work?
4) Pirate missions
Okay, okay, I know this is probably becoming the most linked thread in the message board history, but I *really like this convoy/pirate idea*:
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/6352
The convoy missions could be linked to pirate missions that become available for players with the right Corvus standing, so that when one group takes a convoy mission to deliver cargo, a pirate group has a mission become available to them to recover the cargo and bring it back to a Corvus station.
1) How does cargo distribution work?
I kind of envison this working a little bit like the convoy wars we have now. If the mission is to get 100 units to station X, then 100 units are created at the start location which all group members can see and can load onto their ships. The xp and money payoff is related to how many units you deliver to the target destination.
Another way to handle this would be to have the station automatically load units into each member of the group's cargo hold when they dock with the start location.
2) Escorts
I think it would be cool to have escorts somehow involved in the group trade missions, but perhaps this could be done as a linked mission. The reason for this is that players who participate in group trade missions would probably be getting trade xp for completing the mission, and combat xp would be more appropriate for an escort mission. Some members of the trade group could volunteer to be the escort and fly a fighter ship, but if xp were proportional to the amount of units delivered then the payoff would not be as great for them. Two potential solutions would be to just let the rest of the group compensate the escorts with credits, or to split the xp reward among the group evenly.
3) Why travel in groups?
For protection. There's a lot of pirates out there, and you don't want your group members going off on their own and getting themselves killed and losing the cargo, thereby causing the entire group's mission to fail. A good group leader would keep his trade convoy together, moving at the pace of the slowest member.
Blockade running would also be cool, but perhaps as a sort of advanced group trade mission? Care to go into a little more detail on this idea? How would it work?
4) Pirate missions
Okay, okay, I know this is probably becoming the most linked thread in the message board history, but I *really like this convoy/pirate idea*:
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/6352
The convoy missions could be linked to pirate missions that become available for players with the right Corvus standing, so that when one group takes a convoy mission to deliver cargo, a pirate group has a mission become available to them to recover the cargo and bring it back to a Corvus station.
3) My point is that the mission needs some inherent threat built into the mission because the server can't just assume that the group will be attacked by pirate players (no pirates in the area, pirates are friendly with the group, etc.). There needs to be some way for the server to require that you have more than one pilot to complete it at the expected skill level (yes, like combat missions, one player can form a group, but it may require more work than it's worth by his/herself).
Your suggestion for pirate missions would certainly be the requisite threat.
As for the blockade run, I really didn't put much thought into it. It was just a random suggestion. That said, I was thinking that there would be a group of NPC (bot) pirates guarding a wormhole or station and the group's goal was to get cargo through the wormhole (to some yonder station) or to dock at the station. Said station would, of course, be in dire need of food/medicine/weapons for fighting off the pirates/etc. The pirates would concentrate fire on the largest ships, forcing the escorts to intervene. However, I recognize that something would have to be done to prevent a group from simply buzzing through with heavy engines & fast-charge batteries. Mines? Missles? Rail guns? Something that prevents an easy straight flight. Perhaps the escorts have no chance destroying all the pirates, so they try to distract them while the transports slip through. I'm sure it needs some work.
Your suggestion for pirate missions would certainly be the requisite threat.
As for the blockade run, I really didn't put much thought into it. It was just a random suggestion. That said, I was thinking that there would be a group of NPC (bot) pirates guarding a wormhole or station and the group's goal was to get cargo through the wormhole (to some yonder station) or to dock at the station. Said station would, of course, be in dire need of food/medicine/weapons for fighting off the pirates/etc. The pirates would concentrate fire on the largest ships, forcing the escorts to intervene. However, I recognize that something would have to be done to prevent a group from simply buzzing through with heavy engines & fast-charge batteries. Mines? Missles? Rail guns? Something that prevents an easy straight flight. Perhaps the escorts have no chance destroying all the pirates, so they try to distract them while the transports slip through. I'm sure it needs some work.
The main reason to travel in groups is because space is lonely and bumping people is fun fun fun.
The group leader could actually decide who is the escort (at the end they would get combat xp) and who are the traders (who would get trade xp). When all the cargo is delivered and all of that good stuff the escorts would get their combat xp, and the traders would get their trade xp. Two other ideas is having each good giving an extra bonus, then either letting escorts carry some or not.
The group leader could actually decide who is the escort (at the end they would get combat xp) and who are the traders (who would get trade xp). When all the cargo is delivered and all of that good stuff the escorts would get their combat xp, and the traders would get their trade xp. Two other ideas is having each good giving an extra bonus, then either letting escorts carry some or not.
One thing that I think is necessary is the ability to be able to selectively drop single units of cargo. This morning, Laika was protecting a Serco convoy, and being on the way back to Catequil Outpost from raiding an Itani convoy, I offered to help out. In the process of attacking Shape, who was planning on raiding the convoy, I ended up getting killed. Laika retrieved the convoy's single piece of cargo, as well as my two pieces, and we met back up to divvy up the pieces so that I would get the two pieces that I had raided, and Laika would keep the one retrieved from the transport that Shape destroyed. Of course, since cargo jettisoning is an all-or-nothing deal, we eventually decided that I would keep all three pieces, and the next time we were both on, Laika would get the cargo, and I would provide escort to ensure that the cargo got to where it was supposed to go. On top of that, I gave Laika some of the reward money, but it would have been far better if Laika could just have dropped my cargo and keep the remaining and be done with it.
That's like the time we had 15 between us and we were going to split it, except that I could only drop 1 cargo (and I had 10).
This discussion just started up on the idea of 1 exit per storm:
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/6829
While I won't make any opinion as to whether this is a good idea, if it were to be implemented it would be another potential bottleneck for the blockade scenario I mentioned previously. Of course, you would need to force the group to go through that sector. Why aren't there storms in sectors with wormholes and stations? That would almost force the group to fly right through the pirates' blockade. (Yes, I know how much people hate storms, but it wouldn't be that bad because you have to fly through that sector anyway. It's just now your flight path is determined for you.)
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/6829
While I won't make any opinion as to whether this is a good idea, if it were to be implemented it would be another potential bottleneck for the blockade scenario I mentioned previously. Of course, you would need to force the group to go through that sector. Why aren't there storms in sectors with wormholes and stations? That would almost force the group to fly right through the pirates' blockade. (Yes, I know how much people hate storms, but it wouldn't be that bad because you have to fly through that sector anyway. It's just now your flight path is determined for you.)
I think people are underestimating how hard it would be to catch someone at an exit point, even if it were the same for all players.
Exit points are about the size of wormholes, and you can jump immediately when you get to them. So even if the most direct route was the same for all players, a smart trader could just boost out a ways and come in from a different angle, and there would be no hope of catching him.
Exit points are about the size of wormholes, and you can jump immediately when you get to them. So even if the most direct route was the same for all players, a smart trader could just boost out a ways and come in from a different angle, and there would be no hope of catching him.
I know how hard it would be. That's why I mentioned in my second post that the bots would need ways of deterring flying in a straight line with turbo. Also as I mentioned before, I really didn't put much thought into the mission. It was just an example of WHY you need a group in the first place. I think simply giving the group more cargo than one ship can carry isn't a very compelling mission.
Enough of that idea. Let's think up more scenarios!
Enough of that idea. Let's think up more scenarios!
There are some more of mine in the "content" thread. last post, not sure if people see them cause they are always at the top ;)
I've seen a lot of recent posts arguing that there is little reason to form a group and that the game does not encourage player interaction. I would just like to offer this suggestion (once again) as a good way to foster group play and player interaction.
some thoughts:
1) make the cargo very massive and dynamic based on the ships picking up the cargo, so as they would handle like beached whales.
2) make the particpants choose when they join the group if they are going to be a trader or escort. XP and payout would be factored off of this.
3) average cu to be transported would be based off the total cu of all traders. Minimum limit set so one person can't carry it all.
4) put a payout based on time completed. X credits for completing it in Y minutes, X/2 otherwise. So that lonely traders could never get full payout without grouping.
5) make the missions multi-hop. You have to take cargo from your home space to grey space, and then from grey space to neutral nation space (Serco and Itani, end mission in UIT space. UIT missions end in Serco or Itani space)
6) Pirates in grey space can accept missions to recover cargo
7) Multiple NPC strike forces would be deployed to wormhole areas to prevent successful delivery. If one NPC is close enough to a mission participant when they warp, the NPC strike force will follow.
1) make the cargo very massive and dynamic based on the ships picking up the cargo, so as they would handle like beached whales.
2) make the particpants choose when they join the group if they are going to be a trader or escort. XP and payout would be factored off of this.
3) average cu to be transported would be based off the total cu of all traders. Minimum limit set so one person can't carry it all.
4) put a payout based on time completed. X credits for completing it in Y minutes, X/2 otherwise. So that lonely traders could never get full payout without grouping.
5) make the missions multi-hop. You have to take cargo from your home space to grey space, and then from grey space to neutral nation space (Serco and Itani, end mission in UIT space. UIT missions end in Serco or Itani space)
6) Pirates in grey space can accept missions to recover cargo
7) Multiple NPC strike forces would be deployed to wormhole areas to prevent successful delivery. If one NPC is close enough to a mission participant when they warp, the NPC strike force will follow.
*bump*
Group trade missions are second highest on my list of things I'd like to see in game (right after better newb missions)
@reptyle:
1) To what end? Why not use the cargo currently sold at stations?
2) This is a good idea, but what about players who join the group before the mission is accepted, and what if everyone chooses to be an escort or vice-versa? This idea could use a little more fleshing out, and it could get messy.
3) Also an interesting idea, but would there be any advantage to forming a larger group in this case? I thought the cu to be transported would be totally random (say, 40-200 cu) therefore the larger the group, the more effeciently the mission could be completed.
4) Perhaps there could also be a "rush delivery" variant of the group transport missions like in the regular trade missions we have now.
5) I like this idea too. Convoy missions should definitely go across several systems so that pirates have a chance to intercept them.
6) Yep! see: http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/6352
7) Again, to what end? I say leave this job to player characters who take the pirate mission. Why would a government stoop to using its strike force for piracy?
Some good thoughts... keep them coming :).
Group trade missions are second highest on my list of things I'd like to see in game (right after better newb missions)
@reptyle:
1) To what end? Why not use the cargo currently sold at stations?
2) This is a good idea, but what about players who join the group before the mission is accepted, and what if everyone chooses to be an escort or vice-versa? This idea could use a little more fleshing out, and it could get messy.
3) Also an interesting idea, but would there be any advantage to forming a larger group in this case? I thought the cu to be transported would be totally random (say, 40-200 cu) therefore the larger the group, the more effeciently the mission could be completed.
4) Perhaps there could also be a "rush delivery" variant of the group transport missions like in the regular trade missions we have now.
5) I like this idea too. Convoy missions should definitely go across several systems so that pirates have a chance to intercept them.
6) Yep! see: http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/6352
7) Again, to what end? I say leave this job to player characters who take the pirate mission. Why would a government stoop to using its strike force for piracy?
Some good thoughts... keep them coming :).