This is not a rant or a flame, just an observation.
I have noticed that the minute a negative remark is made against VO, the poster either gets flamed, or post locked etc.
I personally have very mixed feelings about the game, i have played since the recent beta started, and have kept quiet ingame. I just go about my own thing. As a beta tester i report bugs and exploits as i find them, but it seems suggestions are met with ferosity in the most part. Ive seen several people on these boards say "well if you dont like the game just leave". These type of responses are just gonna end up hurting yourselves since there were over 5000 beta keys sent out, yet it seems like there is rarely over a hundred people playing. Although the vets of the game like the style and the content, to a nOOb it is just a case of go to xyz and try not to get killed on the way. until there are other elements added to the game. IE Explore, trade or maybe building you are only going to attract a limited amount of players. mainly cause not everyone likes PVP. Just my take on things anyway. That said I do enjoy the game but im still undecided whether i would actually pay to play. I will wait and see the new content etc first.

not to be the first to flame :P but there is going to be alot more added to the game it is still beta and the missions are not the real missions going to be used, these are just placeholders, the real mission will actually use the back story and will be more engaging than go kill x bots, go trade x stuff. And the flaming begins when the player openly critizes the BETA version of the game saying that it will never succeed, it is destined to fail UNLESS the devs do what they are suggesting, hell sometimes they dont even suggest anything but just FLAME THE GAME. If you see the suggestions there are many posts that are not flamed because they simply suggest and not try to force their ideas

The people who are told off to go play another game are the ones that keep insisting that this game should be changed to emulate EnB or freelancer or other such, while Vendetta is Similar to those the point of making a game is to be original and those type of comments do not help the devolupment process however impede it by saying the core structure of the game has to be changed. THose people are just missing EnB or other such games are this game is not trying to(not that it wouldn't mind) grab everyone that plays games. just the specific nitch of people who like RPG's with FPS style game play. so like i said dont count your chickens before they hatch and dont JUDGE VO before it goes public, everyone is entitled and welcomed to make comments and suggestions but not to judge and rate this game on their own tastes, as beta and alpha testers our job is to objectivly judge this game and decide what elements work for us and what doesn't not try to say it HAS to be one way or antoher because when it comes down to it is the devs game, not ours.

but happy to hear that you are enjoying the game and are willing to wait for the content unlike many of people who were flamed who though this is all there was to this game and called it trash, i call them arrogant and short sighted, but that is losing objectivity.

hmmm so much for wanting to flame your post, i suppose that is because you presented your argument in a resonable way instead of a forcefull and my way or the game fails way :)

darth out

Dan, welcome to vendetta.

I am a long term tester.

I personally am doing my best to try to welcome the new testers, and I certaintly like having all the new ideas flooding in. Its not so much that us vets like the style/content as it stands now as we have had more exposure to vendetta and its development team. Most of us have a fairly strong attachment to this game and want to see john, andy, ray and waylon (the 4 devs) succesful.

We have a slightly longer term view of the project, being that we can look back and say "they have come this far, we trust them to take us the rest of the way" and some of us can get a little uhh testy about percieved attacks on the game.

There have been a few overreactions, and I have tried to keep people calm for pretty much the reasons you state. However, many of the new testers seem to be more used to the type of beta where a company distributes a product that is essentially done to show it off as opposed to the work in progress that is the reality in vendetta.

The other thing that many of the new testers just dont understand is that guildsoftware is releasing now because they have to. The company was effectivly broke at christmas last year. they managed to get an investor and redesign the content they wanted in order to release a playable game that they feel comfortable charging for so that they could continue to work on it.

I will comment that in interviews and newsposts about the game, the devs have commented on such things as a more complex mission system, and some months after release, adding capital ships and exploration. None of that is in game at the moment, however in the past 2 years the devs have been very careful not to promise anything that they were not going to deliver. I seriously doubt that they would start to do so at this late stage of the game, which leads me to conclude that there is a lot of content nearing completion that will most likely be added within the next 2 to 3 weeks.

I'm glad you are planning to stick around for it, and i hope to see you in space.

I certainly do wish VO success. There are so few space-based MMOs out there that it needs our support. Yet coming from EnB it was a shock to discover just how little content there is in the game. You would have to have played EnB to realize our disappointment. The things that make many MMORPGs great--such as resource gathering, trading and trade skills, and especially the ability to loot many cool and useful items--are desperately lacking from this game. I am also disappointed with the interface; I would like to be able to use my mouse for more than just steering the ship.

So far, the game seems more like work than play. I am ignorant of future plans. Is the sort of content I just mentioned going to be added in the near future? Please say it is so, because I certainly want to see this game succeed.

People flame people who say things like "I don't like the flight system. Take out the lateral thrusters and change it or the game is going to tank. In E&B you could <insert E&B thing here> you need to put this in the game."

We flame because:
a) That is a totally unreasonable demand. You can't reinvent the gameplay two weeks before release.

b) This game isn't E&B. This is what garner the most "if you don't like it, leave" comments. I'm sorry you lost your MMO, but don't go trying to change this one into what you lost. Yes, there are some things about E&B that would be good in this game. Many times, however, people will rattle off a list of things that they liked to do in E&B and therefore want to do here, and if they can't this game sucks and should die.

That attitude angers those of us who have been here for years because we think of this game as Vendetta Online, not "My E&B surrogate." I think hyping this over at the E&B forums may have backfired a little, because instead of drawing a big crowd of people looking for something new we drew a big crowd of people looking for E&B.

It's not E&B. Some of the things you mention, Rascal, have been mentioned by the devs as future plans. But this:

" I am also disappointed with the interface; I would like to be able to use my mouse for more than just steering the ship."

is what I'm talking about above. You have a misconception of what this game is - it's not an E&B or EvE style MMO where you click and your ship does stuff for you. You do it here. All actions such as (eventually) mining, (on friday) repairing and (now) picking up cargo are done through the ship.

Yes, the game lacks content. I'm beginning to think we should write a "History of Vendetta Development" so that we can show it to newbs to explain why. People come expecting a big development team backed by a major corporation and get 4 guys in a cubicle who have somehow miraculously gotten this game where it is today. Bit of a shock, but that's the way it is. Content takes time, and they are working to put it in as hard as they can - but they're only 4 people. Give them time.

Sorry but I disagree with you people about wanting to change the game into EnB... I am a former EnB player and yes we ( I ) got to get used to VO and game play but suggestions made about shielding repair thingies etc that are/were in EnB is being flamed by others and now in upcomming patch the repair group device is gonna be in next patch.... (go figure)

The game is great, game play is fun too but somethings could be changed into a concept that already been used in other games, after all we all want this to be a kick ass game with new fresh things...

you all forget this is a suggestion forum that means you can suggest things and maybe it brings someone else on a better idea..
hey in EnB you can buy ammo outside stations, yet I saw a suggestion for ammo support ship in forum, sometimes we can not go around things that has been done in other games but you can add them and improve them.... I agree with Dan about being flamed too fast and too easy.

Although, our E&B friends are bringing along a lot of new ideas, and a different perspective to vendetta that is certainly refreshing.

asphy

Well DAn, you've basically nailed the reason my posts have decreased lately and my time in game has also, I'm just tired of people flaming any suggestion that has a smidgion of EnB in it.

I don't want VO to be EnB, I understand it is another game entirely, but, some games, like eve, EnB, Freelancer etc have some great features, features that have 'wow, cool' factors to them, by suggesting we implement these things into the game, some people need to realize we are suggesting things that will make the game cool, we are not trying to turn VO into another game.

Atm, the game is lacking in alot of area's, Its a real shame that it needs to be released now because its potential is there, I'm just worried that when the game goes live, the people that will be buying and reviewing the games in magizines , will have no personal attachments to the devs and make their minds up on what they see as the 'final' release, not a WIP still :-/

I do wish the game great success as well, for the time been though i'll probably only be playing sporadically though :-/

Vendetta has a lot of cool features going for it:

*Multi-platform release

*Twitch based combat that rocks

*Fully dynamic economy based on a supply/demand model

*Customizable ships

*Skills/licenses/reputation system

These are just a few of the things about the game that rock as it stands (it's technically still in beta ya know). Sometimes it just takes stepping away from the game for a few days and taking a fresh look at it to see these things. Many more cool features are coming in the future. Some of the things I look forward to:

*Better guild and station interface

*Storyline mission trees

*Group PvP missions

*Guild owned stations and capital ships

I've got a bright idea, let's all hold off on the unrealistic ideas and suggestions we're spamming the devs with.

All this 'Hey how about 3d people? Or maybe like, a big gun, like in that one game!' bull is completley useless and even damaging to the whole suggestions board. Especially two weeks before launch.

Instead of 'I think players should have ducks drawn on their ships' type suggestions which would take a lot of work and time to impliment, let's suggest realistic, small changes to gameplay and interfaces which can be thrown into the game within a few mnutes, not huge 'OMG u fail if u dun't have this' ideas most of the threads in this board are.

An example of what I think of as a 'good' thread is Spider's AAAARGH! thread. If this was a good three paragraph essay this would be a witty and consice conclusion sentance, and the example would be expanded upon. Oh, and the spelling would be better.

Rascal, Content is coming. Take a look at the last items on the news page, read the interviews if you havent. a lot of what John describes in those interviews is what i forsee being added to the game over the next several weeks.

The mission system and "trees" which will give us something to do in this universe.

The "player affected storyline" where what players do influences the long term game. We will see the first example of that on friday night with the trade convoys from UIT space into SERCO/ITANI space. (ok it'll prolly be saturday morning at around 3am CST like most of the updates the devs put out, but ok whatever :P)

I hope you're right, Spellcast. I have been spoiled by EnB, which had so much content that even after a year of playing I had not explored all of it. Yet EnB fell victim to the corporate axe. I applaud the developers of this game for what they are attempting. If they succeed it will prove that the small guy cannot be counted out.

Yet I still worry. Can four guys really churn out the content that today's online gamers demand? World of Warcraft and the Shiva expansion for Eve will both be coming out soon. Content for content I don't see how Vendetta can compete, unless the developers plan a really huge patch.

Another concern is the level of hostility in the community. I have noticed that many people--like you, Spellcast--are very well-mannered and welcoming to us EnB refugees. Yet it seems that many VO veterans resent the intrusion of new people and their ideas and will not waste a moment to go on the attack. I simply mention the things I would like to see added to the game and I receive several lengthy flames in response. I do not see the benefit of posting my opinions if I have to spend a large amount of time defending myself. I almost feel like I stepped off the bus into Falluja.

Can you link to these flames? FM wouldn't allow anything that hostile. I think you *might* be overreacting to someone explaining the facts of the Vendetta situation to you... I say *might*, because yes, some people can be very... angry.

Many of the ideas the E&B people brought with them were presented to us in the form of an ultimatum - "Do this or your game will suck." That got people riled up. That plus E&B nostalgia spam in-game and a veteran overreaction to it.

This game is going to fill a niche market. I have the distinct impression that Eve and WOW are not avaible for the Mac and Linux platforms.

This game isn't going to please everyone, but it will be the best Guild can make. They don't put out crappy stuff. The code is something they built themselves so they could maintain quality.

My husband spends time trying to make every type of sound card/graphics card work with the game. He's trying to make sure that every possible kind of joystick, mouse and anytoher interface will wirok with the game. For pete's sake he even was figuring out how to remap the key commands for international keyboard (France, UK, Sweeden) even if that means leaving MY computer set to emulate a french keyboard. Life would be much easier if they said here are the system requirements (blah, balh) if you don't have them you can't play.

The game is not a flight simulator, it is not a "rolling the dice" comabt game. It isn't going to appeal to everyone and I think the Devs are aware of this.

I think 3,000 subscribers with at least 2,000 active would give Guild enough support to coninute in their work.

Hopefully it is a reasonable and attainable goal by Nov 1st.

Once upon a happy day, a1 made a sector.
First, it had nothing in it. It did, however have a wormhole to it. I believe it was in s7. The wormhole was labeled 's7.' Then a1 made a few funny asteroids to mark the exit. Then he made a spinning doughnut station. Then FiReMaGe came around and suggested a1 make a race-track. So a1k0n wrote a script, and told FM to fly at a constant speed. As Mr. MaGe wooshed around spinning stations appeared behind him, mapping out a simple race track. The odd numbered stations spun clockwise, the even-numbered ones spun counterclockwise. Then he made an asteroid. It also spun around.

All this took around an hour, so all of you 'omg not enough content' fear-mongering newbies can shut it. The speed at which content can be added is limited only by the speed the devs can think up of it.

PS: Incase you're wondering, these are the stations I'm talking about
http://images.vendetta-online.com/screenshots/dump0030.1.jpg

And that night A1 rested. :)

The next day A1 said "Let it be so everyone is invincible.", and the players rejoiced and laughed and bounced around inside station tunnels.

And the next day A1 turned it off, and the players were surprised and unhappy and died many many times.

And so ends psalm 52 - the wrath of a1k0n.

;-)

heh, you new guys need to know, that a _lot_ of the old stuff that made the game fun got taken out, like racing, forever wars, flag capping, ect.

one time, I got a few reds, and blockaded sector 7 :)

I've been here 2 years for some reason, you think this lacks content now? we just used to fly around with items with fixed cargo prices between 9 sectors and 4 ship types and missle weapons were invisible!

this game has potential to be GOD no not a typo i mean the All mighty game.

all it needs to be perfect is more missions, which are coming, the spy mission is probably the best example mission of what's possible.

I bet you a large sum of money that this weeks update will bring the lacking purpose to the game, weighted cargo will be the best thing for those on the shadey criminal side of the universe and the bot convoy's to serco and itani space will add the intense player escort internation combat that alot of us (especially me) have been craving since 3.1 and 3.2 pre super bots.

so in conclusion,this is a good game and by christmas this will be a killer game and by march this will be the best game and it will keep getting better as long as we keep playing it because the devs don't seem to have lives and are always working on this. :)

I would in fact shut down a flame as soon as I found it, and I do review the whole board a few times a day as my schedule allows. It's been my experience that I am more sensitive to flames than the general user. I reject the statement that threads that are critical of Vendetta are locked. The only threads that get locked are those that have outlived their usefulness because they have wandered off-topic.

As for the "veteran" Vendetta users, yes we/they do get a little frustrated from time to time, but I could point to a few recent inflammatory trolls placed by a newer user that were simply ignored - as they should be. This is a good community.

See also: http://www.vendetta-online.com/h/work.html