Forums » Suggestions
Yeah. The more I think about this, the cooler I think it would be. It wouldn't add to game-play much, but would just be something that is really cool and would make everything feel so much more real. The more work you do making the setup (like the map) behave real, the more you can get away with in the actual flight model and with other things that would require much more time and effort to improve.
I imagine organizing the sectors graphically into a grid would be easy. The only real challenge would be adjusting the system for hitting storms and also adjusting the NPC behavior, missions, and other stuff that depends on the current system.
I picture a super-cool 3D map with really nice 3D graphics for the planets, moons, asteroid belts, etc... It would be eye-candy, but would probably succeed in hooking a lot of new players.
P.S. Jim Kirk, I think the systems should all be the same (a perfect cube). That would make it easier to master the 3D navigation/coordinate system, which might get tricky. Even if a lot of the sectors are empty (like we have now), it's just easier (from a development point of view) and cooler looking to have them all be the same. We use empty sectors anyway for all kinds of stuff. Besides, it's more realistic to have a cube, and that's kind of what we're going for here.
I imagine organizing the sectors graphically into a grid would be easy. The only real challenge would be adjusting the system for hitting storms and also adjusting the NPC behavior, missions, and other stuff that depends on the current system.
I picture a super-cool 3D map with really nice 3D graphics for the planets, moons, asteroid belts, etc... It would be eye-candy, but would probably succeed in hooking a lot of new players.
P.S. Jim Kirk, I think the systems should all be the same (a perfect cube). That would make it easier to master the 3D navigation/coordinate system, which might get tricky. Even if a lot of the sectors are empty (like we have now), it's just easier (from a development point of view) and cooler looking to have them all be the same. We use empty sectors anyway for all kinds of stuff. Besides, it's more realistic to have a cube, and that's kind of what we're going for here.
Agreed. New players expect a 3d map naturally. I did back when I was new.
It would take a little time and effort, and some server downtime (which should be announced, naturally), but it would definately hook new players in better than our current set-up.
For the new 3d System Maps, there should be a spherical shape to the storms so that they cover more than one sector, smallest should = 4 sectors, to medium 6 sectors, to large 9 sectors. Navigating through said storms should be as difficult or more in the new 3d set-up.
Via the mousewheel "layering" from the top to the bottom of the sector should be utilized in a somewhat simple manner. Right clicking may change the angle on the system similar to how we look at the ships in the ship selection screen.
It would take a little time and effort, and some server downtime (which should be announced, naturally), but it would definately hook new players in better than our current set-up.
For the new 3d System Maps, there should be a spherical shape to the storms so that they cover more than one sector, smallest should = 4 sectors, to medium 6 sectors, to large 9 sectors. Navigating through said storms should be as difficult or more in the new 3d set-up.
Via the mousewheel "layering" from the top to the bottom of the sector should be utilized in a somewhat simple manner. Right clicking may change the angle on the system similar to how we look at the ships in the ship selection screen.
Hey, if it allows in-sector jumps, seamless flights from one cube to another and engines with different jump capabilites, it will add to the gameplay and be much more than eye-candy.
Making navigation more complicated to get eye-candy is one thing, but making navigation a more important part of the gameplay --- and more `realistic`, if that`s an argument --- is another.
Making navigation more complicated to get eye-candy is one thing, but making navigation a more important part of the gameplay --- and more `realistic`, if that`s an argument --- is another.
Okay, so I have an idea to run with this:
I agree that many new players expect a space sim to have 3D everything (especially as time goes on and more players already have that kind of graphics power). I also agree it would be cool, could be made important, and would be more difficult no matter what... As a note, I would like to keep to discussing 1 complete point at a time, as long as they can be separated, so no fuel-jump-etc. talk here. I cannot see why any new transportation system between sectors would be unable to deal with cubes instead of squares, so this is written using the current sector-to-sector jump model and assuming that this could be changed in the future.
Possible 3D Navigation Solution:
- - Most players, especially new players, only care about sectors with something in them. Space is mostly empty, even inside a solar system, and a solar system is mostly flat. If the current squares were replaced by cubes, most of the cubes should probably be devoid of anything more than 2-5 asteroids. As such, there could be 2 views to the PDA navigation interface, and I also suggest having 2 ways of navigating.
- - First, the 2 views and the first method of navigating: The new PDA navigation computer would have a "simple" and an "advanced" navigation interface mode. Either way, the current navigation route should be listed at the top of the interface, starting with the next jump destination. I think green text on a black, left-right scrollable textbox could be good. One should be able to use the textbox as the active control (i.e. click on it to have a text-cursor inside which moves left-right with the arrow keys, be able to copy part of it, etc.). One should be able to type or paste in their own navigation route. Left-clicking a jump point would select and highlight it. Once a jump point is selected, one can left-click-select a new jump point to be inserted immediately after the selected jump point (and this new point becomes the selected and highlighted jump point), hold-shift + left-click-select a new jump point to replace the currently selected jump point, or the current point can be deleted using the delete key and/or backspace key. It should also be possible to drag-and-drop jump points. Double-left-clicking a jump point should zoom the PDA navigation map below, in either mode, to that sector. If an invalid navigation path is in the textbox, then all jump points after the last legal jump should be displayed in orange text. If any jump point is itself invalid, that point should be displayed in red text.
E.g. You are in Sedina 4-9-6; Sedina:2-8-5 is the Sedina-Latos wormhole:
[(green, bold)Sedina:4-9-6 >> (green)Sedina:2-8-5 >> (green)Latos >> (orange)Ukari >> (red)Sedna:4-9-6]
- - The "simple" mode would have a 2D map, like currently, with a list of sectors on the right to select as the new jump point. At the top of this map would be 4 buttons: Stations, Asteroids, Wormholes, Marked. Each of these buttons would bring up at right all sectors in-system of that type; "marked" sectors would be those for which you have previously made notes in your PDA. Left-clicking on the map itself would list on the right all Z sectors at some (X, Y) position (where you clicked). The arrow keys could be used to traverse the map and the buttons/groups at the top, and the + - keys and/or pgUp pgDn keys could be used to traverse the list on the right.
- - The "advanced" mode would be a true 3D view of the system. The view can be rotated by dragging the mouse, like viewing ships now (but no annoying auto-rotation!). Only the currently selected cube/cell would be highlighted lines around it by default, though a grid structure of thin light-blue lines could be turned on and off. The currently selected cube would be changed by using the arrow keys and + - or pgUp pgDn. You can also jump to a cell be simply typing in its (x,y,z) coordinates.
{{ WAIT FOR MORE!!! I have to run for now - I'll finish when I get back!}}
Disconnected Ideas:
I do think it would be good, though, to have at least 1 asteroid in every sector.
I agree that many new players expect a space sim to have 3D everything (especially as time goes on and more players already have that kind of graphics power). I also agree it would be cool, could be made important, and would be more difficult no matter what... As a note, I would like to keep to discussing 1 complete point at a time, as long as they can be separated, so no fuel-jump-etc. talk here. I cannot see why any new transportation system between sectors would be unable to deal with cubes instead of squares, so this is written using the current sector-to-sector jump model and assuming that this could be changed in the future.
Possible 3D Navigation Solution:
- - Most players, especially new players, only care about sectors with something in them. Space is mostly empty, even inside a solar system, and a solar system is mostly flat. If the current squares were replaced by cubes, most of the cubes should probably be devoid of anything more than 2-5 asteroids. As such, there could be 2 views to the PDA navigation interface, and I also suggest having 2 ways of navigating.
- - First, the 2 views and the first method of navigating: The new PDA navigation computer would have a "simple" and an "advanced" navigation interface mode. Either way, the current navigation route should be listed at the top of the interface, starting with the next jump destination. I think green text on a black, left-right scrollable textbox could be good. One should be able to use the textbox as the active control (i.e. click on it to have a text-cursor inside which moves left-right with the arrow keys, be able to copy part of it, etc.). One should be able to type or paste in their own navigation route. Left-clicking a jump point would select and highlight it. Once a jump point is selected, one can left-click-select a new jump point to be inserted immediately after the selected jump point (and this new point becomes the selected and highlighted jump point), hold-shift + left-click-select a new jump point to replace the currently selected jump point, or the current point can be deleted using the delete key and/or backspace key. It should also be possible to drag-and-drop jump points. Double-left-clicking a jump point should zoom the PDA navigation map below, in either mode, to that sector. If an invalid navigation path is in the textbox, then all jump points after the last legal jump should be displayed in orange text. If any jump point is itself invalid, that point should be displayed in red text.
E.g. You are in Sedina 4-9-6; Sedina:2-8-5 is the Sedina-Latos wormhole:
[(green, bold)Sedina:4-9-6 >> (green)Sedina:2-8-5 >> (green)Latos >> (orange)Ukari >> (red)Sedna:4-9-6]
- - The "simple" mode would have a 2D map, like currently, with a list of sectors on the right to select as the new jump point. At the top of this map would be 4 buttons: Stations, Asteroids, Wormholes, Marked. Each of these buttons would bring up at right all sectors in-system of that type; "marked" sectors would be those for which you have previously made notes in your PDA. Left-clicking on the map itself would list on the right all Z sectors at some (X, Y) position (where you clicked). The arrow keys could be used to traverse the map and the buttons/groups at the top, and the + - keys and/or pgUp pgDn keys could be used to traverse the list on the right.
- - The "advanced" mode would be a true 3D view of the system. The view can be rotated by dragging the mouse, like viewing ships now (but no annoying auto-rotation!). Only the currently selected cube/cell would be highlighted lines around it by default, though a grid structure of thin light-blue lines could be turned on and off. The currently selected cube would be changed by using the arrow keys and + - or pgUp pgDn. You can also jump to a cell be simply typing in its (x,y,z) coordinates.
{{ WAIT FOR MORE!!! I have to run for now - I'll finish when I get back!}}
Disconnected Ideas:
I do think it would be good, though, to have at least 1 asteroid in every sector.
Look at the navigation screen. There`s a lot of space wasted on the upper right side besides the chat box. Move the buttons on the right side that are brought up by the tabs further up, or put them into a drop-down list openend by clicking on the tab.
Display sector information where the buttons are now.
Move the map somewhat to the right.
Put buttons for the systems on the left side of the map to select systems, and make an overview button that zooms out to a 3D map showing the systems. Each system has a number assigned to it on its button. Make another button with an input widget that zooms to the currently selected system to the zoom level specified by the input widget.
Make the map 3D and seemlessly zoomable from the overview down to the smallest cube.
Make a scrollable list at the right side of the map, showing the selected navpoints that describe your route under each other.
Click around on the map to add navpoints to the route. Click on a navpoint in the scrollable list to remove it. If a navpoint cannot be reached with one jump, automatically put navpoints into the route list as needed.
Add an input widget to enter exactly one coordinate at a time, with a button to add that coordinate to the route as a target --- navpoints in between are added as needed. Coordinates are entered as either <system name>/<level>/<x>/<y>/<z> or <system number>/<level>/<x>/<y>/<z>. System number is as on the corresponding button, slashes are optional, level determines the depth in the layers of cubes.
In simple mode, don`t display a map at all. Only display the buttons for the systems on the left. Clicking on a system button displays objects (stations) in the particular system. Clicking on such an object sets that object as target, a route is created automatically and displayed in the route list.
There you are, plain and simple :) Add some means to save coordinates as named points in your navcomp, so you can build up a list of stuff interesting to you, like:
roid: helio 85 --------------------- (18/33/03/06/07)
station: sells target systems ------ (12/20/01/01/05)
cube: too many bots here ----------- (05/15/07/02/09)
roid: xith 94 ---------------------- (08/32/01/07/10)
(Herch, that list should be aligned.)
The list can be sorted. Click on a saved navpoint if you want to go there, it`s taken as your target to the route list, and there you go. To save such a navpoint, open your PDA, click on a button `Save current position` and give it a name, or enter the coordinates manually.
Add a `Save` and a `Load` button to the route list to save and load routes.
Display sector information where the buttons are now.
Move the map somewhat to the right.
Put buttons for the systems on the left side of the map to select systems, and make an overview button that zooms out to a 3D map showing the systems. Each system has a number assigned to it on its button. Make another button with an input widget that zooms to the currently selected system to the zoom level specified by the input widget.
Make the map 3D and seemlessly zoomable from the overview down to the smallest cube.
Make a scrollable list at the right side of the map, showing the selected navpoints that describe your route under each other.
Click around on the map to add navpoints to the route. Click on a navpoint in the scrollable list to remove it. If a navpoint cannot be reached with one jump, automatically put navpoints into the route list as needed.
Add an input widget to enter exactly one coordinate at a time, with a button to add that coordinate to the route as a target --- navpoints in between are added as needed. Coordinates are entered as either <system name>/<level>/<x>/<y>/<z> or <system number>/<level>/<x>/<y>/<z>. System number is as on the corresponding button, slashes are optional, level determines the depth in the layers of cubes.
In simple mode, don`t display a map at all. Only display the buttons for the systems on the left. Clicking on a system button displays objects (stations) in the particular system. Clicking on such an object sets that object as target, a route is created automatically and displayed in the route list.
There you are, plain and simple :) Add some means to save coordinates as named points in your navcomp, so you can build up a list of stuff interesting to you, like:
roid: helio 85 --------------------- (18/33/03/06/07)
station: sells target systems ------ (12/20/01/01/05)
cube: too many bots here ----------- (05/15/07/02/09)
roid: xith 94 ---------------------- (08/32/01/07/10)
(Herch, that list should be aligned.)
The list can be sorted. Click on a saved navpoint if you want to go there, it`s taken as your target to the route list, and there you go. To save such a navpoint, open your PDA, click on a button `Save current position` and give it a name, or enter the coordinates manually.
Add a `Save` and a `Load` button to the route list to save and load routes.
The mouse wheel will highlight the different 7x7 layers in green, and then you can click on any one cube in the layer to select it. Mac users, get a new mouse like I did.
Mynt, I don't think you'll find many mac users playing VO without a several-button mouse, what with mighty mouses, the nice macbook trackpads with their scroll- and second-click sensitivity, and the inferiority complex towards PC users that could only come from being one or two down on the number of buttons ;-) The joystick users perhaps, but I never trusted those people. I mean, what joy could possible be gained from a stick?