What I don´t understand ist the matter that if I fly fullspeed (without turbo) and turn my ship 180° around my ship fly´s the same direction as before the turn.
Remember the engine is at full throttle.
In my opinion the ship has to follow the engines throttle if u turn around. Then the physics will become more realistic but also more difficult in roidfields top fly.

Sorry for the errors in typo and grammar but english is not my native language.

When using mouselook, the direction you're looking at is not the direction your ship is pointing. The direction you're pointing in is the little circle that wobbles around on-screen.
Your ship cannot turn when turbo-ing.

I have mouselook deactivated. Defentiely ther must be an arrow where u can see the direction of moving. When I turn around the circle wobbling around points in the direction I want but the ship moves a long time in the direction I flew before. The effect of full throttle on the movement is very weak. But maybe I have an error in my configs. I´ll test then I will report again :)

oooh, sorry, I though you'd said you were turboing.

You probably have physics mode enabled then. ' ; ' is the toggle between arcade mode, which does exactly what you want, and physics mode, which does what you're experiencing.

well, he understands how the physics works, but it seems that he is having trouble with why it works.

He's saying that if you are at full throttle, then you turn your ship around, your engines are now faced in a diferent direction and should be forcing you a different way.

However, here is the answer to your question:

When in physics mode, you are not setting a "throttle," you are simply speeding up. Once you stop speeding up, you are going that speed and your engines are turned off. That way, no matter which way you point your ship, you will still be traveling the same direction.

I hope that was easy to understand, I tried to use easier words since this isn't your native language. Believe me, I know how hard it is to understand different languages in other forums =/

However, the internet gods have given us the universal language of the ASCII smilies =)

thx for your explanation and I understand what physic mode and arcade mode do
I would prefer a more realistic flight physic, so turning your ship at full speed will force the ship to move.

So if you turn 90° up at full throttle the ship will react by flying a a rising curve (a mix of forward and strafe down I think).

aactually...
the subturbo engines are not newtonian, that is also why you don't need thrusters to change direction. so basically, you can turn your ship every way you want, your ship's engine remember the vector you had, the direction of your ship's nose only starts affecting your vector if you engage the forward thrust of your ship.

as for turbo...
when you turbo, you use a newtonian propulsion method, and the non-newtonian gets disabled for the time you engage the turbo engine, so change of directions does not work (unless oyu use a gravitational anomaly, aka black holes).

i think that this explanation was given before, by Celebrim, but he isn't around, and i felt like rewording it.

When you rotate your ship, you are applying equal thrust in opposite directions, if you have a fore thruster fire to port and an aft thruster fire to starboard with equal force, you'll rotate on the spot.

If you happen to have momentum in a given direction and do the same thing, you'll rotate without altering velocity/vector. That's what happens in the game.

One thing the game does do to make things easier for you is when you thrust in any direction (forward, reverse, left, right, up, down) it eventually cancels any momentum you had in another direction. If I fly forward at 65, then start thrusting left, I should still be going forward, but I end up just going sideways.

if you fly forwards at 65 m/s, and you press a different movement key, you will not immediately nullify the momentum, you'll fly in a curved path.

That's why I said "end up" to imply it wasn't immediate.

Also, as long as you're not hitting your ship's "Speed Limit", you'll move along the combined vectors of your various thrusts. It's only when you hit the "Speed Limit" that applying more thrust in a given direction will start to cancel out the other vectors.

I am use to physic style flight where there is a constent thrust being applied to main tain you at a set speed and as your facing chages so doe sthe vetor at witch the ship travels. if you want to continu to travel i a set direction whil chaging your facing you would cut engens and begin to slow down as you costed in that direct and faced in another.

If you roll a ball along the floor it will keep rolling until something stops it. If it doesn't hit any obstacles friction will stop it eventually. On a high friction surface, like carpet, it will stop quite quickly. On a lower friciton surface, like linolium, it will go a long way before stopping.

Space has NO friction (or very very very little). You roll your ball in space, it will never stop. It's the same principle with your ship, give it a push and it will keep going. You don't need to keep pushing.

This is high school physics.

Hmm, I didn't know about the vectors canceling each other, but I guess it makes sense for Vendetta's physics model with its "speed limit" per ship.

It would be interesting to see a truer-to-life physics model, but that would radically change the nature of the gameplay (might work out better, might not). An accurate model would have no speed limit per se. Once you got to a given speed with turbo, the ship would maintain that speed so long as no other force acts upon it (woohoo! You'd be able to go insanely fast, forever!!!!). Also, some sort of "net power" approach to the strafe controls would be needed.......i.e., you shouldn't be able to "double/triple chord" by using side *and* top *and* forward strafe controls to gain more speed (not really an issue in the current model, with the speed limit). The concept here is that you'd have a limited amount of total thrust, so left strafe-only would put out full power, whereas to strafe left and up you'd be dividing total power between the two vectors.

-Matt Bailey

mattb: Interesting, yes. Fun to play, no.

Check out Frontiers (now available as shareware). It has a very realistic physics model ... it's even possible to park your ship in orbit. The combat however ... not so good. You end up with so much momentum in one direction so that you can actually get anywhere that the only manuevering you can do in combat is to change your facing,

Yeah, while part of me says having such a low 'top speed' in space is ridiculous, Korban is probably right (I could imagine something like particle shielding or whatnot EVENTUALLY limiting top speed, but I'd thing it'd be something of a significant fraction of c before something like that would come into play) :) However, it *is* rather frustrating to me to see such a LOW top speed, if only in numbers (65m/s? Or even 200? Are you kidding me?). When I think of spaceships, I think in at LEAST hundreds of meters per second, and going up into kilometers and tens of kilometers - even in a system such as this where top speeds exist to facilitate fun combat. I'd like to see a zero added to all velocity readouts in game, even if it has zero effect on gameplay, so at least I can feel like I'm going fast :D

Well you have to remember, just because you could techincally go as fast as you want, doesnt mean you would survive :)

Thats the entire reason Inertial Dampners were invented in Star Trek - to give a reason why everyone on the Enterprise wasnt smushed into an atomic pancake when they entered warp.

Humans, genetically engineered or not, can only handle accelerations up to a certain degree, which while it doesnt affect your potential speed, drastically changes how fast you can get there. I personally like being able to stop in a few kilometers rather than needing 3k+ to come to a stop :)

Maybe they could throw that in - Serco would be better suited for faster accelerations / deaccelerations due to their engineering.

And I do wish that if you are using the keyboard to move, you thrust only as long as you have the key depressed, I think it would make more sense.

True, but just think, with even one gee, you'd be going 1 kilometer per second in just over a minute and a half, and humans can DEFINITELY survive more than one gee. Also, I don't know much about star trek, but out of curiousity, have any ships ever had their dampeners taken offline in combat or somesuch and had everyone onboard converted into paste? I know more about Honor Harrington (book series) and warships commonly hit 500 gee's acceleration, a feat made possible through inertial compensators... but when one of those compensators is damaged or destroyed, even the tiniest fraction of a warship's max speed would (and does) paste everyone onboard.

*Edit* Oh, and no, I'm not disputing the 'fun factor' - I know having to take 3 kilometers (and definitely conceivably more) to stop (and the time that goes with the decel) could be rather troublesome and would require some math and planning on the pilot's part if he wanted to actually stop anywhere, ever. :) Travel in a realistic universe (as I understand it) basically consists of accelerating halfway there, and decelerating the other half - as long as fuel isn't a major issue.

Hmm... I dont remember if there was an episode where the dampners were ever taken offline for a bit, but I assume that basically prevented them from warping away lol.

And I see what you mean also, its like having 10HP and attacks doing 1 dmg... moving to 100HP and 10dmg doesnt do anything, but certainly makes you feel more powerful :) - and for all the player knows, maybe it really IS still 10/1.

Yeah, I realize accurate/unlimited top speed might degrade combat in a space sim, I just think it would be interesting to try. :) One thing that's important to remember, however, is that speed as we tend to think of it has no meaning whatsoever in combat, in and of itself. It's all about relative speeds of the ships. If both ships are cruising along on the same path at like 140 m/s, the combat (once intitiated) is going to be exactly the same as if both ships started at 0 m/s, excluding other objects (this is assuming we're working with "real" energy, no arcade models that can quickly divert the path of the ship and maintain most or all of its speed). So un-capping top speed could open up some interesting possibilties: in duels, for instance, you could both agree to go to, say, 1,500 m/s before start, to help avoid other ships interfering. And chases would be insane, both ships eating up real estate like mad. :)

The big problem comes in interception. Just think, a trader moving at a few thousand m/s would be virtually invincible to pirates unless the pirate saw the trader coming from a long way off and began to accelerate early enough.

Anyway, to sum it all up, I agree the speed limit is needed for practical reasons. Just some random thoughts to consider. :)

-Matt Bailey