Here's an idea that I think Vendetta would do well to incorporate: The NoobShield(TM). In Jumpgate, a kid fresh off the shuttle from dirtside is protected by the NoobShield until he's rank 3 (around 1/1/-/- in Vendetta.) Thus, the vets can't go blasting totally green noobs even if they wanted to. The noobs temporarily lose the shield if they attack another player, and they aren't invulernable to bots. It just keeps them out of PvP until they're used to the game.

So how about it, devs? NoobShields(TM) until 1/1/-/-?

The devs have already said that they don't like inexplicable, magical game concepts that put artificial restrictions on behavior without any good RP reason. Ideally, everything in the game will be enfoced through some RP reason. For example, instead of n00bshields, we have uber-defbots and you lose combat exp if you keep killing newbies.

I agree with their philosophy.

Plus, I believe you're only at risk in neutral space, as you can't damage ships in your own nation.

Yes, but an Itani could penetrate IUT space, for instance, and cause massive amounts of grief.

Also... there's the ideal and then there's reality. The Jumpgate devs didn't find it particularly tasty to have unexplained noob shields, but they still cut down on a LOT of problems. Sometimes (as in all of us flying most of the same ships) you just have to buckle down and make changes for the sake of better gameplay.

Do you know of a case where a 0/0/0 noob has been wasted by players?

Then, what were they doing outside their nations protected area?

It's been pointed out that such a thing wouldn't be hard for an experienced player, and time in many games has taught me that people -are- willing to work hard in order to be able to ruin other people's fun.

It's bizarre, but there's folks out there that get a kick out of it.

Jumpgate is an example of that, octopusfluff. It's why it has this type of shielding. Players can sit right outside the launch tubes and repeatedly kill pilots they just didn't like, in an effort to drive them from the game. It's really quite sad.

That's why we have uber-leet defbots and suicide missiles. Even if they're intent on greifing you, once you get to level 2 in anything you should be able to run away.
On top of that, if they are intent on greifing n00bs they will soon find their license levels down to nothing, at which point, they'll be open to greifing themselves.
On top of THAT there will be guilds, the vipers are an example, that will come by and help.

Itani can't hurt Itani and thats not artificial? No?

A relic from the old CTF days.

Players can sit right outside the launch tubes and repeatedly kill pilots they just didn't like, in an effort to drive them from the game. It's really quite sad.>>

that will work for about 2 kills in vendetta, then your rating with the faction the station belongs to is so low that the defbots swarm you under. you might live by dodging and weaving, while you run for the nearest wormhole, but you arent going to sit anywhere.

Since it takes about 5 hours for an experienced plauer to get a setup strong enough to kill a bus in a hurry, i dont think many people are gonna take that kind of time. only to throw it away for 5 minutes of fun.

Spellcast, it will happen. There are people out there who are literally career griefers, and that five minutes will be worth the five hours to build up to it. And then they'll spend more time either working out another way to do it, or getting better at the same method so that they can survive the attempt to do it more than once in a short span.

The trick is not to make it impossible for someone to do, or overly difficult. The trick is to provide a feasible counter -- a mechanism and reason for another player to stand against the griefer -- or a reason for them to not do it other than "you'll get blown up."

...and that's where I come in, with the Guide-stick.

<There are people out there who are literally career griefers, and that five minutes will be worth the five hours to build up to it.>
-5 hours of effort for 5 minutes of mild annoyance to a single newbie seems like a pretty acceptable asshole/normal person ratio to me.

Spellcast, it will happen>>

yes it will, however as magus said, the time ratio seems pretty fair to me. Also, if someone wants to spend that kind of time, then thats their buisness, they are paying for the game too. Since the mechanism is allready in place to make it overly difficult, (nothing should be impossible) it provides a significant level of protection for the noobs.

And the reason in this case isn't, "you'll get blown up" its "you wont be able to do it more than 1 or 2 times with that character.
to get away with it again, go back to go, do not collect 200 dollars and start all over if you want to continue to do that without the added distraction of the defense bots, and having your name known as a griefer"

Incidentally the travel time also makes it less likely for anyone but the truely dedicated griefer. since you cant dock (and therefore cant home) in the station of a faction that doesnt like you, you not only have to get your character up to level, you have to cross several systems to escape.

<<<or a reason for them to not do it other than "you'll get blown up.">>>
as far as that goes, i have played other online games and the griefers aren't going to care what reason you give, if they want to do it they will. Vendetta as it stands provides a very good level of protection for noobs over the long term.
Since the devs have expressed a wish that "no part of space is totally safe for anyone" as part of their design philosophy, i feel that they have a workable mechanism in place. Several of the pre-alpha testers have tried to grief noobs and found that they managed 4 kills before being overwhelmed.

Forcystus states in another thread this about shielding:

>>6: That's a design issue, not touching that one with a ten foot pole. It works as it stands.<<

why start new thread about shielding?

You misunderstand my meaning, webserver. This is blanket anti-PvP invulnerability for newbies. You, as far as I could tell, meant general depletable shields like most games of this type have.

Well, if it's implemented, at least make it work. This so-called immunity never actually worked in JG ;)