I said I was going to post it, after looking at it more.

No order of importance, as yet. I may edit it to reflect that, later.

1. Forums. They're old, they don't allow a lot of things, and they're quite clunky. Feature-light. Un-intuitive. Old-technology. Do these allow html, by chance? Haven't tried. if not... they REALLY need work.

Suggestion: Upgrade to a more feature-heavy forums software, before release. Please? These are incredibly bland. The "home" for your game shouldn't be bland.

2. Website.
a. Content pages. Many are very, very bland. Examples are "General", "Universe", "Flight and Combat" under "Vendetta Universe". Those pages are the ones you directly link from the "Introduction" - as such, they should be chock full of eye candy. You won't attract potential customers if it's all text.

"Ships", and "Introduction" are a very good contrast, to show what I'm saying *should* be done. Those are nice pages to attract interest. The new "Backstory" pages , except for very nice illustrations at points, are just big, huge columns of text - no breaks in the text except for the date breaks - which makes for tedium, after a while.

3. Game Data
I'm not saying make the actual game data available to anyone - what I'd LIKE to see, however, is the pilot stats, and current ranking data displayed online, and then dumped to an xml file, updated every ten minutes, or so. An xml file is simply formatted data, which can be manipulated for incredibly detailed breakdowns of gameplay statistics. For an example of what you can do with xml data dumps, see the following links.

http://pilotstats.net/ - ongoing, daily statistics of very, very many pilot data categories, from the game Jumpgate.

http://jumpgate-web.com/MarketLister/index.php - current economy data, updated every 5 minutes.

http://joystickrequired.com/toolshed/items/Commodity - much more refined tool - requires registration. Well worth it, in my opinion :P

There's tons. And tons. And tons. of things players can do with just a simple xml output of current kills/stats/economy information. All you need is a way to dump the data you want to dump to a certain, pre-determined place.

4. Economy.

I know you said you're working on this - but I'm curious. Is this going to be an economy where what you do (note: On a more full featured forums software, this would be bolded, italicized, text made slightly larger, or colored. To name a few.)MEANS SOMETHING, or is it going to be an economy where it's only a MEANS TO AN END - making money? In my ideal economy, what I bring to a station will make other things. Those things will be components of other things. Which in turn will make up things like fighters, or stations, or capital ships. Is it an economy where what you do MATTERS, or is it an economy where you just shuffle items around that don't really do anything?

I'm looking at, say, Volatile chemicals, Plastics, and Basic Targeting systems. Will those ever do anything, or are they just random "widgets", to be shuffled around the galaxy? The answer to this question will determine whether you ever get anyone looking for a supply and DEMAND economy. If the stations arbitrarily set "demand" for something that isn't *needed* - is that really an economy? Or is it a means to an end - making money so you can fight? If the former, I'd like to kinda... see what I'm trying to accomplish... if the latter... what's going to keep traders (those who ONLY want to trade) interested, if what they do has no affect on anything but the number of zeros in their account? What are they doing, visibly, for the economy?

If you want clarification, I'd be happy to offer it. I know it's a question a lot of people are going to be looking for an answer to. So I asked it now. Well before... well, 2 weeks, give or take, before release. Not that it'll help much, It will be revealing, though, answer-wise.

Finally - Interface.

In station looks very dated. There are too many menus, too many things to navigate through for some areas. Hotkeys would be very helpful. Graphics update would change your "first impression" significantly - the station interface is the VERY FIRST THING PEOPLE SEE WHEN LOGGING IN. That can't be emphasized enough.

Double-click on missions/items to activate, rather than make them hit two things for a simple transaction.

Missions - instead of "Cargo Transport">Info>Accept/Decline - Why not just dbl-click>accept/deny?

Instead of having ship selection, and layout, in two different places, why don't you combine the two, into one interface?

Instead of having Buy/Sell, why don't you combine those?

Instead of Ammo/Repair, why don't you combine them?

Weapon groups having a top menu tab... character info requiring multiple clicks to enter...

The smaller button sizes are, the harder it is to click them in a hurry - there doesn't seem to be a need for a separate tab for everything, the way you have it - plus, there's no need for several of the "clicking tress" you have set up, rght now. Simplify, streamline, visually improve - modernize.

I'll add to this as I go on. Those are just some sticking points I have had thus far. Forcystus, I know you'll want to comment on a couple of these, as will some other Jumpgate types.

I need to be doing other things, so I'm glad RK got The List up before I did - I've got no clue when I would have gotten to it.

A few quick things right now -

The Station Interface improvement needs to be the #1 priority. In the background, though a translucent overlay, you should be able to see your current ship in hangar, IMHO. Even Jumpgate does this with 2D sprites. Most of the actual INTERFACE is OK - although I think Buy Ships should be its own tab, or something different than it is now. It feels awkward now. The two parts of the Character info screen should be integrated into one - if the inventory really needs to be there at all, that is. You can get your inventory in several other screens, as well, making the Character Info inventory redundant, IMHO. It might help to keep track of multiple ships on multiple stations, but it still feels monotonous when put alongside the other screens. Also, you need to put a "pilots active in station" tab on the interface, somewhere. The Bar is totally unsuited for this - it's hard to keep track of who stays and leaves off of a text dump. And as far as The Bar is concerned - unless you have some additional functionality planned for it, drop it. It doesn't do anything that sector chat in-station does, and nobody uses it (ergo, it takes up space on the Interface.)

Speaking of ships... the models for the EC and Atlas need to be retextured. I mean, really. Flip between an EC and a Centurion and you'll have trouble believing that they're in the same game. The EC texture actually looks stretched and dithered - while the Centurion doesn't. The EC texture also LOOKS like newbie work - straight lines and bland colors. Keep in mind, this is the ship the newbies HAVE to start off with and it's the first one they see.

I have to be brutally honest, Vendetta gives one of the worst first impressions I've ever seen. There's a great game here, but you really couldn't tell from the first few things you see. This looks like a junkheap game from the station interface and the EC - which it isn't. But what newbie paying customers see at first will matter a lot. And of course, we have to deal with the station interface day-in and day-out anyway.

As far as the Atlas goes - most of it is OK, I suppose, if very WHITE, making details hard to pick out. But the cockpit is totally non-reflective. I'm not asking for a blue cockpit like on the Cent or Vult, but even the Hornet's black cockpit is at least shinemapped. A non-shiny cockpit on the Atlas is just jarring, visually.

Also, I suspect this is forthcoming, but when creating a character, some description in the character creation screen of who the various nations are would be fantastico. Most people just go NT now, since they're the default choice.

Concerning the release date... this is again brutal to say, but it needs to be said: Vendetta will not be ready for release in two weeks. Even if you work 24/7, it won't be ready by the end of October. Two months, I think, is a more realistic timeframe. The flight engine - the basic core of the game - is ready for release, but a fair chunk of the game surrounding the flight engine isn't ready for prime time. This game needs a few more months to simmer before it'll be really tasty.

And if you're telling yourselves "Oh, we can patch this stuff in post-release": don't kid yourselves. The Jumpgate guys thought that too, and look where they ended up - they're lucky to muster 60 players a night on their US server. If Vendetta doesn't own all and sundry right out of the box, it'll never get the chance to do so again. The devs need to take the time to properly prepare this game for release, so that it really lives up to all it can be. Don't rush Vendetta out the door after working on it for two years - it deserves better.

That's all I can think of that RK hasn't covered already. I might get to some more later.

I don't think it's being rushed out the door so much as they're only four guys with no major publisher funding them. They are going to need income to continute working on the game...

It's sad, really. Here we have the potential for an incredible game - but publishers apparently didn't bite. These guys have put their heart and soul into it but in the real world that doesn't really matter. People who see the box on shelves aren't going to know that it was created by four dedicated developers, or that it as the potential to be awesome.

Sigh. Life sucks. I'll be supporting the devs because I really, REALLY want this game to survive. Realistically, I think a lot of people are simply not going to give it a chance. :(

Yeah, but some of the stuff on the list - like the Station improvements - are things I've seen a <b>single</b> man do. There's "limited by four guys" and then there's "needs work".

They do have limited resources, but I hope they aren't so constrained that they can make a marginally better station interface.

Thus, if you notice, 3 of the 4 are "What newbs see first" topics, and the 4th, economy, is a VERY, VERY important core gameplay issue I'm concerned with. I'll edit this post later to add anything else I see - but that's what I see as "MUST FIX BEFORE RELEASE" issues - the 3 newb-related ones, at least. I include economy, because you're going to get many, many of the "traders", if this turns out anything like Jumpgate, who WILL want a viable, "this matters to the universe" economy. If you want to attract that type of player to your universe, the economy HAS to do something other than shuffle commods to no purpose. If you're not interested in that - that's fine. Take it from me though - traders will not be interested in a superficial, non-gameplay-affecting economy - thus it's inclusion into "The List".

Right, and they also NEED to make sure that the game server can handle a ton of people without becoming to laggy to bot, and they NEED to make a lot more missions ( the devs have said in the past that they wanted to make a mission oriented game ) and they NEED to find a way to balance out the engines and they NEED...

There's four of them and they've been doing this for years. They probably don't have the funds to hold the game for another few monthes. What they really need is a major investor and the ability to hire five more people.

I concur that the devs either need a major investor or they have to release the game to get some income.

A monetary catch-22... boy, this sure looks familiar :/

I would like for the cargo to remember how much it cost you. Something like what Fable has.

example:
1x Steel (97) 751
profit 654

How about this.

Each station produces widgets that can be divided into two categories- human-based and material-based. Luxury goods/purified water are human-based, they need to be there to maintain life, giving rise to "we are running low on purified water, if you do not purchase fifty from another station for us, lives will be lost. you have thirty minutes." (group mission?)type missions which are big on the faction standing. Then you have the materials like aqueous ore and stuff. Instead of the first mission, you might get "We have surplus stores of aqueous ore. Please take them to our industrial station in (whatever) for refining into purified water, then bring them back to be sold on. You will be rewarded" for nice trade exp, or perhaps every once in awhile, "We have run out of Vismetal, Plasteel and Xirite Alloy and are unable to contruct more valkyries. Bring us 20 of each widget and we will be able to contruct six new valkyries, one of which you will recieve" (group mission) for high-level trade and combat.

Stuff like that.

Ordinary trading would give rise to these missions- you buy all the purified water, the station asks for aqueous ore prospectors and emergency water supplies, if all the Plasteel goes, then limited ships are available and the station asks for more to continue production.

Stuff like that...

Is there no chance the devs couldn't use some community assistance with getting the game ready? Surely theres a few of us, like myself that can use 3dsmax to assist in remodeling some stuff, making station interfaces. etc :-)

As far as community help goes, Netdevil got offered that all the time, but there are evidently massive legal hurdles to accepting free work.

Another thing that Vendetta could stand to have that competitors have already - National Missions. These are nation-wide missions to produce good things (new Valkyrie variant, for example), stop bad things (save Divinia from a plague!) or just advance the storyline (we need this much spy data on the Sercans. Get to it.) They're awesome for storyline purposes and really bring nations together.

From what I understand, the storyline missions are mostly made. But we as beta testers don't get to play them.

Kinda odd phrasing there Rogue. You make it sound like something is being withheld, when the truth is that they aren't ready to be played.

Suggestion to Suggesters: Plopping a bunch of unrelated suggestions in one thread makes them very hard to reference later on. It would be better if people would try to group their suggestions in separate threads under appropriate titles. I know this may be a lot to ask, but it does make it less likely that your suggestions will be lost in a sea of unrelated text.

I'll edit it, and put it in a list.

Posting a thread for each suggestion is kinda asking to have a couple missed also, though.

Then, I'll post a topic for each, since that's what you prefer.

Other posters - it *may* be a good idea to post the "must fix before release" type bugs/problems/suggestions in this thread, so I can collect, and present them as a "list of things that are broken".

Would you agree?

Concerning Economy:
This is a dangerous subject in Video Games. Lets assume we have a complex economy, wherein parts and ships will run out if commodities are not shipped there so they can be built. Alright, so what happens if the station runs out of ships? Someone runs an effective blockade and the station is rendered unusable. What if you cannot buy a battery because there aren't any good ones on the floor? Would you still launch in a bus, with a light battery and stock gun?

Most players would not. If you can't survive when you launch, you don't launch. If you don't launch, you don't play. If you don't play, no one has fun and everyone loses.

As much as there should be border outposts that are player-supported as far as economy, there should also be base stations that are uneffected by this. Else, when war sets in it will not be a war of two factions with the intent of FUN, it will be a war between two factions to <i>drive players from the game</i>. Cut off their supplies until they cannot play anymore. Your faction wins. The game, it's developer, and any of it's investors, lose.

The way it works in eve, is that a few stations sell ships, they also sell blueprints so people can learn how to make ships. From there, its up to the players to gather the ores to build the items they want to build. as more builders start, they start out bidding each other on ores, some branch of to other stations and put cheaper ore prices there to aoid the price wars, players also try to sell their wares at stations more conveniant for people. In essence, most of the economy is completely player run, as players sell their items cheaper than station venders, and generally buy ore for more than the venders. It also means you have a very dynamic market.

I'll agree with the website, items such as the backstory need some pictures in their o break it up a little, but then I can understand that is a backburner thing until the game is out :-)

Forum wise, since this will be the hub for the community, I believe it does require a little more work, its is very clean and simple to use, however it just seems a little too bare, maybe allow custom avators? Have a strict policy on sizing, but something to give posters a more personalised feel would be great, You can recognice alot of people instantly by their avators, i'd be against signitures though, as they just incourage some people to post dribble and wierd banners :-)

What you people don't understand is that the game is UNDER DEVELOPPMENT. Keep that in mind before ranting about how primitive something is.

-Eloi D'Acrayel

Yep, under development - until what, a little under 3 weeks from now?

That's less than 21 days, to get it to retail quality.

That's the issue, not "it's in beta". Stress tests are the final betas, and this is very, very close to release. It isn't, however, very very close to *done*.

Thus, these posts - we're trying to help, not to complain, man.

Avatars are a definite no for the forums. a1k0n doesn't want 'em, and I'm inclined to agree with him. They add nothing, and there's too much possibility for abuse. Any vets remember some of the crazy graphical sigs when some of the community forusm were young? Anyhow, you guys ought to be easier on a1k0n. This whole thing is written in C. And it is pretty damn fast.