I think it's time to resurrect the old discussion on Friendly Fire.

To prevent confusion: Friendly Fire = damaging another player of the same nation.

Now that we have a functioning faction system as well as npc defbots, it seems to me that there is no longer any need for players of the same nation to be protected from each other. No friendly fire is one of those arbitrary "rules imposed by GOD" and I think the game would have a more realistic feel if weapons were *always* damaging, regardless of nation.

Attacking someone of your own nation would probably have a much larger faction penalty than attacking someone of another nation, and of course the defbots would rush in to defend the victim. In the real world there is always crime within any particular nation, not all violence is directed between nations.

I think it would be nice if guns - think rockets - would damage someone on your own team; but that the weapon systems would refuse to fire on your own teammate unless his/her standing was below a certain level... or if you bought a modified weapon somewhere.

I think FF should be on. You should be able to shoot your own team. I mean, if I can shoot people of a faction that's +300 with me, I should be able to shoot my own team.

Yeah, with the new faction standings, I think freindly fire is something that makes the game seem more independant.

I guess without FPS style spawn points Freindly Fire isn't so bad. I had some pretty horrible UT experiences with it but Vendetta is less and less like an FPS these days so:

I like the realism it adds but I think it's definatly worth testing with a larger user base (stress test maybe) before just going for it.

There will always be that guy who thinks its hilarious to undock in his bus and repeatedly shoot the nearest team-mate. It seems like enough penalties are in place to limmit this bad behaviour though. In theory they would lose docking privlages in thier home sector or be overwhelmed by def bots before they became a too griefy.

And ofcourse, trying to kill anyone in any semi-decent ship with a bus is futile.

Agreed. But all of it. For all weapons and all standings.

/oper sv_friendlyfire="1"

i think that ff should wait untill a "he shot me first so I can defend myself without loosing faction points" system is in place. Because then that guy in the bus wouldent realy have any effect on your character other than you get a few more (insert your nation here) kills.

Yep Friendly Fire is something i really want to have. And i expected that this is a simple variable that the devs may change some
day :).
But this topic points out that it isnt that easy.
Firendly fire should be disabled for newbs .. maybe until they reach 4/4/4/4. It would be bad if a newb loses his standings just because he doesnt know better.

Hmm, but then if a n00b is attacked by someone on his own team; he couldn't fire back?

... no one can fire on the noob.

as derived from Incarnates comments on irc:

Friendly Fire will be turned on when or if a person reaches KOS with that faction. So, for a Serco to get FF, You simply make yourself KOS vs. Serco, unable to dock and so on... and when you finally are KOS with everyone, your alignment has changed to "pirate" ;)

But how do you make yourself KOS with a faction if you can't shoot them?

roguelazer: I belive that if I (NT) am loved by Itani and an Itani kills me he/she takes a faction standing hit.



I agree with those that think faction hits should be taken when attacking, not when killing.



However: A stray shot or a miss of some sort should not count. Only the second hit within 1 minute or so.



Is this too much for the server to track? Then it's fine by me if the first hit determines the faction standing outcome.



-100 for hitting someone, -200 if the shot is fatal?

[edit]
No... It has to be based on how much damage the target takes.
If not then an avalon torpedo gives -200 for a kill while a phased blaster gives -<a lot>

Bah, that's weak. It's that whole artificial barrier phenomenon that's occuring again. How can you be invulnerable for one second and then vulnerable the next? A rocket, missile, laser, or whatever should hurt someone regardless of faction standing. Creating a magical shield of indestructible goodness just for the sake of faction standing seems ridiculous to me. How can something like that be explained if the player is trying to play the game with realism in mind?

I don't see why friendly fire can't be left on. Those who kill or badly hurt newbies of their own nation can be penalized harshly. Actually that can go for anyone on your own team. It's just like how you're tried for treason if you attempt to do the same thing in a real military--there will always be consequences. Of course a self defense system will need to be in place, as mentioned before, but that also applies for the current faction system too.

adjust it so that you can damage anyone.

Add in a IFF system to the ships so that the weapons will refuse to fire if your target is "green" to you on your radar.

(edited for clarity)
You can still kill "friendlies" you just can't attack them while they are targeted. accidental shots will do damage and if you can hit them without having them targeted you can attack them.

if one of your shots hits someone, you automatically turn red on thier radar so they can target you and return fire.

If you kill someone that is "friendly" to your faction you take a -250 rep penalty with your faction.

So basicly:

The selected show up green on radar, unless:
your standing with the selected nation is bad,
the selected standing with your nation is bad,
the selected shot at you within a period of 5 minutes.

There should also be a command like /friendlyfire which turns the IFF off. Or maybe some factions will sell ships without IFF. But any stray shot will always be able to do damage.

I like Spellcasts idea, it also introduces the future posibility of a high level pirate having thier targeting system modded to fire on 'friendlies' or buying a black market targeting computer.

The one beef I have with spellcasts idea is that it would be frustrating not to be able to target someone who is a friendly. Targeting someone has other uses than just locking on for the kill. You can message your target, tell the distance to your target, gauge your target's health.... all these things can be useful for friendlies as well as enemies.

sheean: I dont like the idea of having it turned off with a simple console command. Make the ability to target and fire on "friendlies" a pirate special item availible via a mission tree for pirates. it adds more to the game and is somewhat more realistic. (it could also be availible to elite fighter wings or national defense factions maybe)

phaser you missread/misunderstood. (and rereading my other post i can see why, i've edited it for clarity) you can target a friendly, your ships computer will simply refuse to allow your weapons to fire if you have a friendly targeted. It works like this.
Phoenix is friendly to me, so he appears as green on my radar. I have Phoenix targeted. I click the fire button, my ships computer checks the target data, sees that Phoenix is friendly, and interrupts the fire command, echoing a message on my screen that says something like "target is friendly, fire control lock active" and my weapon doesnt fire.

If i untarget phoenix, and have nothing targeted, my weapons will fire. If a shot hits phoenix, he takes damage and I turn red on his radar so he can target me and return fire easier, (note he might still be green on mine until he hits me, I havent thought this far ahead yet :) thats an interesting point as to the color change if you hit someone. hmmm i'll think about that)