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Reputation, faction standing,, cargo& equipment, basically another ramble.
Hmm, here we go again, I'm bored, hot (my AC is broke) and spent a large chunk of today working on a vendetta cargo list sorted by station. Lots of time floating around between stations thinking, so here goes another rambling post. I'd add it to my earlier one but the ideas are all different.
The reputation system is a good start, however there is lots of room for improvement/tweaks. For example I would like to see some dynamic aspects to it, eg if you raise your standing with serco by 100 points you lose 50 points with itani. After all, The itani are gonna wonder if they should be trusting someone the Serco suddenly feel so much better about. The same dynamic could be extended to the various commercial factions. If you raise your TGP standing, perhaps Axia doesnt think as highly of you. You could have spent that time to work for them, but you worked for those money grubbers at TGP Inc. Fine then, go work for them some more, we dont need you. This would add more decision making to the game, and create a more diverse player base at higher levels. Instead of just slowly raising all your reputation stats over time, you would have to pick and choose which ones are valuable to you.
Which moves us right into the faction standing portion of the ramble. Since faction standing now affects your equipment purchases, (btw I like that, once again it adds to the diversity of the game) It would be nice to have some faction specific missions. Once again I am working under the assumption that there is more mission content coming "soon" so bear with me. I'd like to see the different "corporate" factions develop some personality, Biocom specializes in medical shipments and deliveries for instance, (you have a small chance to get medical emergency missions from them if your rep is high enough, "the station at D-14 in the Odia system has reported a patient in sickbay with a rare disease, we need someone to transport a medical specialist there immidiately. It is imperative that they get there within <x> minutes." If you dont get them there in time, mission over fails. Completing a "special" mission for a nation would place a "tag" of some sort on that character seperate from the regular reputation. As long as the reputation remained good, a special piece of equipment would be availible, or a special benefit would exist for that person. If the reputation dropped below +whatever, the tag would be lost. Each faction could have a type of "special" mission.
Having spent most of today making a cargo list 1 station at a time of just about half the universe, I've noticed some things concerning the way trade items are distributed. First off, some of the "outpost" and "mining" stations actually have quite a large selection of cargo availible, and it doesnt always mesh with the stations description. I found a few "mining" stations that had only VanAsek ore, Ishik ore and Carbonic Ore, and also sold things that you would expect a mining station to be importing, like Food, water, solvents, and tools. Stations that claim to be manufacturing stations also sell the above three ore's. (wouldnt a manufacturing station be importing raw materiels, not selling them?)
It would make the universe a little more interesting if the description of the station int eh nav map gave you a hint as to what types of products you could get there, and what kind of cargo they import. A "barracks station" would have few cargoes going out, but would want to buy food, water, etc. Mining stations would want the same items as a barracks, except that a mining station would export a lot of varied ores, manufacturing stations would sell a few finished goods and import lots of ore. Orbitals could be the "farms" of vendetta, inserting food and other trade goods that would logically come from a planet into the economy, and wanting finished goods and luxury items in return for the population of the planet below. Strongholds and Central stations could trade a little bit of everything, at a slightly worse price than you would get for taking it to a station that "needed" whatever you were selling. After all from a stronghold it has to be re-routed to its eventual destination. The only exceptions would be the luxury items and high grade finished goods coming out of the manufacturing stations, since the Strongholds are the centers of civilization and culture, thats where the people have more money to afford fripperies.
While flying from station to station I also decided to see what kind of gear I can buy at the various stations, and for the most part that seemed pretty accurate, however i would like to see a few changes in the "buy" screen.
We need some form of filter system, I'd like to see the following filters. I've listed a generic name for each and a quick description of what they would include.
Trade Goods - all trade goods
*** This filter would only be selectable if none of the cargo filters below were selected, or selecting it would unselct all the other cargo filters.
Ores - all trade goods with the word Ore in the name
Staples - items that are universally needed, food, water, clothing, etc
Maufacturing materiels - Tools, chemicals, solvents, pigments, etc
Finished goods - Luxury items, consumer goods, etc.
Weapons - All weapons
*** This filter would only be selectable if none of the filters below were selected, or selecting it would unselct all the following filters.
Small port weapons - all weapons that can be mounted in a small port. duh!
Large port weapons - all weapons that can be mounted in a large port.
Energy weapons - all weapons that use only energy
pulse weapons - energy weapons that have a slow rate of fire
burst weapons - energy weapons that have a high rate of fire
*** the above 3 filters would need to be linked together so that only one could be selected at any given time
Ammo Weapons - all weapons that use only ammunition
Rocket launchers - unguided ammunition weapons
Missile launchers - guided ammunition weapons
*** the above 3 filters would need to be linked together so that only one could be selected at any given time
Combination weapons - weapons that use both energy and ammuniton (currently only the railgun and screamer missile unless i'm mistaken)
Most advanced variant. - Displays onlt the highest "variant" of the weapon you can buy. for instance if you have access to the
Ion Blaster, the Ion Blaster MKII and the Ion blaster MKIII it would only show the MKIII
All of the filters on the list would be next to a little boolean checkbox, and the buy screen would only show the items that fit into ALL of the checked filters. for instance with:
Large port weapons, Energy weapons, and Most advanced variant checked, I might get a list that included the Advanced Gatling Turret, Plasma Devestator MKII and the Gatling Cannon. Since no other weapons fit the list, nothing else would be displayed.
Obviously a smaller filter list might be neccesary, but i think even if it wer broken down into Small port, Large port and Cargo the buy screen would be a lot easier to use.
Ok, thats everything thats on my mind ATM (my mind tends to wander, but being a small mind it doesnt wnader very far) So i'll stop typing at you now. Feel free to discuss, reply, add, amend, etc the post, but please no flames, the ideas are only food for thought, not for fire.
The reputation system is a good start, however there is lots of room for improvement/tweaks. For example I would like to see some dynamic aspects to it, eg if you raise your standing with serco by 100 points you lose 50 points with itani. After all, The itani are gonna wonder if they should be trusting someone the Serco suddenly feel so much better about. The same dynamic could be extended to the various commercial factions. If you raise your TGP standing, perhaps Axia doesnt think as highly of you. You could have spent that time to work for them, but you worked for those money grubbers at TGP Inc. Fine then, go work for them some more, we dont need you. This would add more decision making to the game, and create a more diverse player base at higher levels. Instead of just slowly raising all your reputation stats over time, you would have to pick and choose which ones are valuable to you.
Which moves us right into the faction standing portion of the ramble. Since faction standing now affects your equipment purchases, (btw I like that, once again it adds to the diversity of the game) It would be nice to have some faction specific missions. Once again I am working under the assumption that there is more mission content coming "soon" so bear with me. I'd like to see the different "corporate" factions develop some personality, Biocom specializes in medical shipments and deliveries for instance, (you have a small chance to get medical emergency missions from them if your rep is high enough, "the station at D-14 in the Odia system has reported a patient in sickbay with a rare disease, we need someone to transport a medical specialist there immidiately. It is imperative that they get there within <x> minutes." If you dont get them there in time, mission over fails. Completing a "special" mission for a nation would place a "tag" of some sort on that character seperate from the regular reputation. As long as the reputation remained good, a special piece of equipment would be availible, or a special benefit would exist for that person. If the reputation dropped below +whatever, the tag would be lost. Each faction could have a type of "special" mission.
Having spent most of today making a cargo list 1 station at a time of just about half the universe, I've noticed some things concerning the way trade items are distributed. First off, some of the "outpost" and "mining" stations actually have quite a large selection of cargo availible, and it doesnt always mesh with the stations description. I found a few "mining" stations that had only VanAsek ore, Ishik ore and Carbonic Ore, and also sold things that you would expect a mining station to be importing, like Food, water, solvents, and tools. Stations that claim to be manufacturing stations also sell the above three ore's. (wouldnt a manufacturing station be importing raw materiels, not selling them?)
It would make the universe a little more interesting if the description of the station int eh nav map gave you a hint as to what types of products you could get there, and what kind of cargo they import. A "barracks station" would have few cargoes going out, but would want to buy food, water, etc. Mining stations would want the same items as a barracks, except that a mining station would export a lot of varied ores, manufacturing stations would sell a few finished goods and import lots of ore. Orbitals could be the "farms" of vendetta, inserting food and other trade goods that would logically come from a planet into the economy, and wanting finished goods and luxury items in return for the population of the planet below. Strongholds and Central stations could trade a little bit of everything, at a slightly worse price than you would get for taking it to a station that "needed" whatever you were selling. After all from a stronghold it has to be re-routed to its eventual destination. The only exceptions would be the luxury items and high grade finished goods coming out of the manufacturing stations, since the Strongholds are the centers of civilization and culture, thats where the people have more money to afford fripperies.
While flying from station to station I also decided to see what kind of gear I can buy at the various stations, and for the most part that seemed pretty accurate, however i would like to see a few changes in the "buy" screen.
We need some form of filter system, I'd like to see the following filters. I've listed a generic name for each and a quick description of what they would include.
Trade Goods - all trade goods
*** This filter would only be selectable if none of the cargo filters below were selected, or selecting it would unselct all the other cargo filters.
Ores - all trade goods with the word Ore in the name
Staples - items that are universally needed, food, water, clothing, etc
Maufacturing materiels - Tools, chemicals, solvents, pigments, etc
Finished goods - Luxury items, consumer goods, etc.
Weapons - All weapons
*** This filter would only be selectable if none of the filters below were selected, or selecting it would unselct all the following filters.
Small port weapons - all weapons that can be mounted in a small port. duh!
Large port weapons - all weapons that can be mounted in a large port.
Energy weapons - all weapons that use only energy
pulse weapons - energy weapons that have a slow rate of fire
burst weapons - energy weapons that have a high rate of fire
*** the above 3 filters would need to be linked together so that only one could be selected at any given time
Ammo Weapons - all weapons that use only ammunition
Rocket launchers - unguided ammunition weapons
Missile launchers - guided ammunition weapons
*** the above 3 filters would need to be linked together so that only one could be selected at any given time
Combination weapons - weapons that use both energy and ammuniton (currently only the railgun and screamer missile unless i'm mistaken)
Most advanced variant. - Displays onlt the highest "variant" of the weapon you can buy. for instance if you have access to the
Ion Blaster, the Ion Blaster MKII and the Ion blaster MKIII it would only show the MKIII
All of the filters on the list would be next to a little boolean checkbox, and the buy screen would only show the items that fit into ALL of the checked filters. for instance with:
Large port weapons, Energy weapons, and Most advanced variant checked, I might get a list that included the Advanced Gatling Turret, Plasma Devestator MKII and the Gatling Cannon. Since no other weapons fit the list, nothing else would be displayed.
Obviously a smaller filter list might be neccesary, but i think even if it wer broken down into Small port, Large port and Cargo the buy screen would be a lot easier to use.
Ok, thats everything thats on my mind ATM (my mind tends to wander, but being a small mind it doesnt wnader very far) So i'll stop typing at you now. Feel free to discuss, reply, add, amend, etc the post, but please no flames, the ideas are only food for thought, not for fire.
I would like to see a allowance for self-defense.
Scenario: Pirate Attack
Location: Dau Headquarters, K10, Dau System.
Participants: Pirate (Itani with +999 w/ TPG), Victim (NT with [Neutral-Admire] w/ TPG)
What currently happens: The Pirate attacks the Victim, and if the Victim fights back and wins the conflict, re loses a shitload of standing with TPG. (Usually all the way to Hate)
What should happen: *If* the Pirate fires and lands a hit first, and the Pirate wins the battle, the Pirate loses standing with TPG. If the first requirement is satisfied, but the Pirate loses the battle, then the Victim gains standing with TPG for defeating a pirate.
Scenario: Pirate Attack
Location: Dau Headquarters, K10, Dau System.
Participants: Pirate (Itani with +999 w/ TPG), Victim (NT with [Neutral-Admire] w/ TPG)
What currently happens: The Pirate attacks the Victim, and if the Victim fights back and wins the conflict, re loses a shitload of standing with TPG. (Usually all the way to Hate)
What should happen: *If* the Pirate fires and lands a hit first, and the Pirate wins the battle, the Pirate loses standing with TPG. If the first requirement is satisfied, but the Pirate loses the battle, then the Victim gains standing with TPG for defeating a pirate.
i would like to add on to that scenario with convoy/escort possibility. trader /escort a few people so now anybody in the group that is shot now has the ability to attack the target without losing standing if they were hit first
Hah.. a true wishlist.
I like spellcast's idea of special missions for playes with high standing. The missions could be more varied, but it definetly should match to faction profile. Despite very little response I still think that faction specific (and expensive) cargo is good idea.
Right now trading is way to easy: you just buy some goods, run to other system and search for profit. Again you are able to get about 80 - 200% profit without really big effort. I think that drastilcy increasing goods price, and decreasing potential profit could make it a bit more exciting (imagine yourself: you have 200.000c and over a half of that is now in your cargo hold. Agy is on your tail, but you know that if you get to that station you will not only earn about 10.000c, but you simply don't loose over 100.000c)
Adding some faction specific and very expensive cargo would make a reall thrill while transporting it thru dangerous system to make a 50% profit
Back to spellcast's post: I don't think It should be impossible to pop both TGP and Axia standing over admire (even if they really hate itself). Possible ratio could be something about +5 TGP / - 3 Axia.
Also basic standings should be more varied than the usual +0 for everyone (with some slight diffrences). Every faction should somehow like/dislike you (or be on a diffrent level of neutral standing). And it shuld be more difficult to change those ratings. With time they should also slowly reset to basic standing (If your basic standing for TGP is -300, and you somehow make it to admire, and than you just leave them, then after a month you might notice you are back at +100 or so, the same goes to opposite - bad karma)
We need more varied cargo missions.. Trading become just boring (but it might change with spellcast's suggestion - imagine yourself you could predict each station's needs)
Every stations gives you now basic one trade mission.. If you are admired you might have two or three. Well it doesn't look like huge station does it ? You should be able to choose between around 5 to 10 cargo missions all time (depending on your standing of course).
Also the money and standing reward should vary on a distance - the longer and more dangerous sector the more you gain (or possibly loose)
Once again I will mention that you should be able to take more than one cargo/cargo+combat mission at the same time. Even more: you should be able to be IN group and take normal cargo mission AND group combat mission at the same time (maybe separate them with a color?).
I like spellcast's idea of special missions for playes with high standing. The missions could be more varied, but it definetly should match to faction profile. Despite very little response I still think that faction specific (and expensive) cargo is good idea.
Right now trading is way to easy: you just buy some goods, run to other system and search for profit. Again you are able to get about 80 - 200% profit without really big effort. I think that drastilcy increasing goods price, and decreasing potential profit could make it a bit more exciting (imagine yourself: you have 200.000c and over a half of that is now in your cargo hold. Agy is on your tail, but you know that if you get to that station you will not only earn about 10.000c, but you simply don't loose over 100.000c)
Adding some faction specific and very expensive cargo would make a reall thrill while transporting it thru dangerous system to make a 50% profit
Back to spellcast's post: I don't think It should be impossible to pop both TGP and Axia standing over admire (even if they really hate itself). Possible ratio could be something about +5 TGP / - 3 Axia.
Also basic standings should be more varied than the usual +0 for everyone (with some slight diffrences). Every faction should somehow like/dislike you (or be on a diffrent level of neutral standing). And it shuld be more difficult to change those ratings. With time they should also slowly reset to basic standing (If your basic standing for TGP is -300, and you somehow make it to admire, and than you just leave them, then after a month you might notice you are back at +100 or so, the same goes to opposite - bad karma)
We need more varied cargo missions.. Trading become just boring (but it might change with spellcast's suggestion - imagine yourself you could predict each station's needs)
Every stations gives you now basic one trade mission.. If you are admired you might have two or three. Well it doesn't look like huge station does it ? You should be able to choose between around 5 to 10 cargo missions all time (depending on your standing of course).
Also the money and standing reward should vary on a distance - the longer and more dangerous sector the more you gain (or possibly loose)
Once again I will mention that you should be able to take more than one cargo/cargo+combat mission at the same time. Even more: you should be able to be IN group and take normal cargo mission AND group combat mission at the same time (maybe separate them with a color?).
Good thoughts, Spellcast.
I agree that there should be some sort of limitation on other faction standings when you get to the higher levels in a particular faction. The way I envision that happening is that to get to a very high faction standing with Axia for example, you would need to run some missions against their competitor, Biocom. Completing higher level missions for a particular faction can pretty much guarantee your faction standing with some other faction will go down.
I don't know enough about the current faction system to know if it's a gradiated curve or not, but if so that would make it so that to get to a really high faction standing you would need to complete advanced missions for that faction, thereby decreasing your standing with other factions.
I agree that there should be some sort of limitation on other faction standings when you get to the higher levels in a particular faction. The way I envision that happening is that to get to a very high faction standing with Axia for example, you would need to run some missions against their competitor, Biocom. Completing higher level missions for a particular faction can pretty much guarantee your faction standing with some other faction will go down.
I don't know enough about the current faction system to know if it's a gradiated curve or not, but if so that would make it so that to get to a really high faction standing you would need to complete advanced missions for that faction, thereby decreasing your standing with other factions.
What about those of us who pursue the occupation of diplomat? We need the system to stay the same so we can be on good terms with all parties.
Ahh Celkan, thats an interesting point, however If the negative backlash only significantly occurs when you raise your rep with their competitor over, say 500, then it would still be possible to be a diplomat. After all, a truly unbiased diplomat should not be loved by all, merely respected. I dont see a problem with having a slightly positive raiting with everyone, it just shouldnt be possible to get everyone to "love"
Of course, there's the fact that my character's family is supposed to own a Prometheus...
"Right now trading is way to easy: you just buy some goods, run to other system and search for profit. Again you are able to get about 80 - 200% profit without really big effort."
>>I agree that trading is easy, and that making profit 20% of cargo price (or some low percentage) would make trading more exciting.
Trading shouldn't be too hard on new/low level characters, however. When a new player starts, he could be able to buy a widget for 50 creds and sell it for 150, turning a small profit. As his levels increase a lot, the widgets (or missions) he handle could cost 20k each, but sell for 25k (smaller profit ratio)... greater risk, greater profit.
And that would also make some pirates very rich and happy.
>>I agree that trading is easy, and that making profit 20% of cargo price (or some low percentage) would make trading more exciting.
Trading shouldn't be too hard on new/low level characters, however. When a new player starts, he could be able to buy a widget for 50 creds and sell it for 150, turning a small profit. As his levels increase a lot, the widgets (or missions) he handle could cost 20k each, but sell for 25k (smaller profit ratio)... greater risk, greater profit.
And that would also make some pirates very rich and happy.
Ciuciu: "...trading is way too easy."
Harvestmouse: "I agree trading is easy."
Are we playing the same game? I guess "easy" can be defined in several ways.
Trading is a long and tedious process. There are many times when I have had to
sell cargo at a loss after visiting many systems and stations and finding nowhere
that was willing to pay even a SMALL profit. Which brings up the next question:
How does making a small profit make things "more exciting?"
Harvestmouse: "I agree trading is easy."
Are we playing the same game? I guess "easy" can be defined in several ways.
Trading is a long and tedious process. There are many times when I have had to
sell cargo at a loss after visiting many systems and stations and finding nowhere
that was willing to pay even a SMALL profit. Which brings up the next question:
How does making a small profit make things "more exciting?"
Ratt.
The current trading system is actually far too easy. Profit margins can be in excess of 600% with only a few small jumps.
Currently there are about 9 cargos that are universal, many of the outpost stations carry nothing else. Trading these will get you nowhere. The trick is to find the "odd" cargos I'm working on a spreadsheet that lists every station and what cargo it has availible. All you have to do is take a cargo to a station that doesnt sell that particular item to make a profit. Some cargo's are unique, and are only offered by 1 station, these sell for large amount of cash. (hint find the station that sells the X-rite alloy, so far i havent found it for sale anywhere else)
Keep in mind that most stations within a system have the same cargo, you'll need to figure out what the system you are in has that the next system dosent.
Oh, free advice (info from the trade list when i am done will be availible for a small fee )
stay away from purified water and van-azek ore. they are EVERYWHERE
The current trading system is actually far too easy. Profit margins can be in excess of 600% with only a few small jumps.
Currently there are about 9 cargos that are universal, many of the outpost stations carry nothing else. Trading these will get you nowhere. The trick is to find the "odd" cargos I'm working on a spreadsheet that lists every station and what cargo it has availible. All you have to do is take a cargo to a station that doesnt sell that particular item to make a profit. Some cargo's are unique, and are only offered by 1 station, these sell for large amount of cash. (hint find the station that sells the X-rite alloy, so far i havent found it for sale anywhere else)
Keep in mind that most stations within a system have the same cargo, you'll need to figure out what the system you are in has that the next system dosent.
Oh, free advice (info from the trade list when i am done will be availible for a small fee )
stay away from purified water and van-azek ore. they are EVERYWHERE
Spellcast:
There is more than one station that sells Xirite Alloy. For a very large fee I might tell you which ones. But 600%? Hardly. I don't think I've ever gotten more than
triple my money on the stuff. Certainly good, but not the returns you mention...
There is more than one station that sells Xirite Alloy. For a very large fee I might tell you which ones. But 600%? Hardly. I don't think I've ever gotten more than
triple my money on the stuff. Certainly good, but not the returns you mention...
~200 - 2000c was the best I ever saw for XiRite alloy.
One of the most expensive cargo is.. metal scraps.. It costs about 1600 ~ 2000c in every station..
DI or DII are really easy to kill no thrill here.
Since 3.5.x, and new universe without any trading (excluding rising my biocom standing = about 25 misson) i earned about 300.000k.. i don't know even how ;).
So once again: trading without piracy, and with cheap cargo (below 2000c) IS easy.. (or rather boring)
DI or DII are really easy to kill no thrill here.
Since 3.5.x, and new universe without any trading (excluding rising my biocom standing = about 25 misson) i earned about 300.000k.. i don't know even how ;).
So once again: trading without piracy, and with cheap cargo (below 2000c) IS easy.. (or rather boring)
the other day i purchased, hmm i cant remember what i purchased, i spent 1000(ish) credits a pop and sold for 6300(ish) each, I went no more than 1 system away cause i was on a prototype delivery mission so i had 13 cargo slots free in my corvus mercenary marauder, It was from somewhere that is NS3 affiliated to, (i think) a TGP station. I'm not at the computer i keep track of my trade stuff on so i cant pull up my cargo log (yes i keep a log of what i trade, from where, how much i pay, where it goes to, and how much i sell for so that if i ever run into a bug i have all the info)
I never said X-rite was what i made the money on. And If there are multiple stations that have it i will get to them eventually. I'm methodically making my way around the universe creating my database and sorting it by station rattman. I'm just that bored.
I never said X-rite was what i made the money on. And If there are multiple stations that have it i will get to them eventually. I'm methodically making my way around the universe creating my database and sorting it by station rattman. I'm just that bored.
Oh. Sorry. It seemed that you said Xirite was it. At any rate, yesterday I found one of those "buy for 900Cr - sell for 6900Cr" deals. It was exciting for about 20
minutes. I can relate to the boredom part. It keeps me out of the game a lot. I
admire your perseverence in "cataloging" the universe. I had done that with about
four systems when the next update came out and changed everything....
minutes. I can relate to the boredom part. It keeps me out of the game a lot. I
admire your perseverence in "cataloging" the universe. I had done that with about
four systems when the next update came out and changed everything....