Forums » Suggestions
Leveling up.
Ok having played with the new missions in their basic forms for oh about 2 days nonstop, i have a few observations / comments.
First off, kudos to the devs, a very good job, bugs notwithstanding a very solid release.
1. I like the missions and license system, a good start. Obviously it needs some tweaking. At present i think the XP needed for the initial levels is too high. Those of us that have played, know how to fight/fly, and were allready drooling for goodies like vultures were willing to sit through 2000 xp for the first level up. I dont think that many noobies will in a final game, you generally want your first "level" to come fairly quick as a reward/teaser. Obviously this is an issue that can be dealt with later. i just bring it up as it was the very first thought i had about the new update after i got past WOWO update/reset yay yay yay.
2. The goodies you get from the leveling up system.
This i am not so happy with. I am in general a peaceful individual, and being required to do combat missions to get advances in my commerce bothers me. I refer to the fact that you dont get a med battery in commerce. I leveled it up to 7, no battery better than a light. i leveled combat up to 5, lo and behold medium battery. In my opinion the carrer paths should be totally spearate, yet parallel.
In general i think a trader of level X should have a better battery/engine than a combat pilot of level X, but the combat pilot would have aces to better weapons. A easy way to impliment this would be to put every battery and engine in both mission systems, in the following order, and at the following levels for trader skill.
-light batt(1) - light engine(2) - efficient engine(3) - medium batt(5) - medium engine(6) - heavy batt(8) - heavy engine(9) - fast charge batt(11). Give them to the combat skill in the same order, but one level higher so that a trader has a slight advantage in speed/energy at any given level.
3. Trade missions. Obviously we are gonna need more of them in the list to provide some variety, and more missions in general to choose from. Doing the same missions over and over is getting boring, but thats a content issue, not a stability issue so it can wait. Also, perhaps being able to take as many trade missions at a time as your commerce level would be nice. there have been a few times when i would have 2 missions avilible to me that would have worked so perfectly together.
(deliver these 8 proprieteary serco electronics to 9.)
(we need you to pick up a load of cargo in 9 and bring it back)
comeon there is no sane reason why a trader WOULDNT take both of them.
3B. (edited in) Trade XP. you currently get 2 xp blocks for trade missions. 1 for each "leg" and 1 chunk at the very end. At the present it makes no sense whatsoever to take a multileg trading mission, as the chunk of xp at the end doesnt get significantly larger based on the number of legs you complete, and is always larger than the amount you get for an individual leg. Perhaps if the "end" amount was a increasing return, the more mission legs you do, the higher that number gets. 1 leg is 100, 2 legs 250, 3 legs 400, 4 legs 600 etc. this way taking 3 1 leg missions and stopping each time gets you less xp in the long run than taking a whole string of 3.
3C my only rant. what is up with the bonuses!!, a couple of lousy credits for busting ass to haul that cargo across the universe. (or to the next sector, but still) how about a reputation increase with it as well, you've just proved to the person you were hauling for that you take his cargo seriously.
4. Combat missions. havent messed with them much, only at level 5 combat 4/4 light/hvy weps. most of which i got before the adv missions were fixed and the basic was capped. more drones, maybe a greater number of missions to take, once again thats content not stability and can be addressed later. The only thing i note is that with some of the advanced missions i've been told that you cant dock in the middle of the mission or it doesnt count it. this seems wrong to me, as one would expect that someone assignig missions would want pilots who were smart enough to come repair if damaged.
this post is still slightly rambly and moderately incoherent, please excuse that. I'll edit it or reply with clarifications later.
<edited in point 3B and 3C>
First off, kudos to the devs, a very good job, bugs notwithstanding a very solid release.
1. I like the missions and license system, a good start. Obviously it needs some tweaking. At present i think the XP needed for the initial levels is too high. Those of us that have played, know how to fight/fly, and were allready drooling for goodies like vultures were willing to sit through 2000 xp for the first level up. I dont think that many noobies will in a final game, you generally want your first "level" to come fairly quick as a reward/teaser. Obviously this is an issue that can be dealt with later. i just bring it up as it was the very first thought i had about the new update after i got past WOWO update/reset yay yay yay.
2. The goodies you get from the leveling up system.
This i am not so happy with. I am in general a peaceful individual, and being required to do combat missions to get advances in my commerce bothers me. I refer to the fact that you dont get a med battery in commerce. I leveled it up to 7, no battery better than a light. i leveled combat up to 5, lo and behold medium battery. In my opinion the carrer paths should be totally spearate, yet parallel.
In general i think a trader of level X should have a better battery/engine than a combat pilot of level X, but the combat pilot would have aces to better weapons. A easy way to impliment this would be to put every battery and engine in both mission systems, in the following order, and at the following levels for trader skill.
-light batt(1) - light engine(2) - efficient engine(3) - medium batt(5) - medium engine(6) - heavy batt(8) - heavy engine(9) - fast charge batt(11). Give them to the combat skill in the same order, but one level higher so that a trader has a slight advantage in speed/energy at any given level.
3. Trade missions. Obviously we are gonna need more of them in the list to provide some variety, and more missions in general to choose from. Doing the same missions over and over is getting boring, but thats a content issue, not a stability issue so it can wait. Also, perhaps being able to take as many trade missions at a time as your commerce level would be nice. there have been a few times when i would have 2 missions avilible to me that would have worked so perfectly together.
(deliver these 8 proprieteary serco electronics to 9.)
(we need you to pick up a load of cargo in 9 and bring it back)
comeon there is no sane reason why a trader WOULDNT take both of them.
3B. (edited in) Trade XP. you currently get 2 xp blocks for trade missions. 1 for each "leg" and 1 chunk at the very end. At the present it makes no sense whatsoever to take a multileg trading mission, as the chunk of xp at the end doesnt get significantly larger based on the number of legs you complete, and is always larger than the amount you get for an individual leg. Perhaps if the "end" amount was a increasing return, the more mission legs you do, the higher that number gets. 1 leg is 100, 2 legs 250, 3 legs 400, 4 legs 600 etc. this way taking 3 1 leg missions and stopping each time gets you less xp in the long run than taking a whole string of 3.
3C my only rant. what is up with the bonuses!!, a couple of lousy credits for busting ass to haul that cargo across the universe. (or to the next sector, but still) how about a reputation increase with it as well, you've just proved to the person you were hauling for that you take his cargo seriously.
4. Combat missions. havent messed with them much, only at level 5 combat 4/4 light/hvy weps. most of which i got before the adv missions were fixed and the basic was capped. more drones, maybe a greater number of missions to take, once again thats content not stability and can be addressed later. The only thing i note is that with some of the advanced missions i've been told that you cant dock in the middle of the mission or it doesnt count it. this seems wrong to me, as one would expect that someone assignig missions would want pilots who were smart enough to come repair if damaged.
this post is still slightly rambly and moderately incoherent, please excuse that. I'll edit it or reply with clarifications later.
<edited in point 3B and 3C>
I love how the progression works in 3.4 and how it isn't just space quake anymore where everyone can get anything as long as they have money. You don't get everything on the same day or even on the same week as when you first started. This is a good thing. The devs that an excellent job on 3.4 in that respect. However... the new system could use a little revision to kill the repetition of botting nonstop just to level up. I mentioned the obstacle course idea before, so I won't repeat that. But essentially there ought to be tasks that truly test the skill of the player; not ones where you're required to repeat a simple task over and over.
Aside from the combat missions being monotonous, another problem lies with its design. The availability of bots is very limited when many players are logged on. And imagine, this is a game that is only in its test phase. How will these combat missions handle hundreds of players scrambling for these twelve or so bots? The one thing I like to see in any game is not to simply pile up more enemies or bots or whatever in a level, or give them super powers to make up for their stupidity. The trick is to employ an effective training system that doesn't require multiple bots to be piled into a sector (which only contributes to more lag). In other words, smarter and fewer bots are better than an all-out easter egg hunt of newbies going after these dumb bots.
As far as the trading missions go, my only problem right now are the bugs. But this was something that was already anticipated since the announcement 3.4. So aside from that, I think the cargo missions are a fun way to take a break from killing bots all day. They give the player a chance to explore the universe and see all kinds of cool things on their way to their destinations. There's enough variety in the current version to keep you playing for a while without getting bored.
However, these trading missions aren't without their problems either. The rewards given lack enough incentive to get players to continue trading. There are only a few worthy skill upgrades within the trading missions right now, and between those sometimes the player is given nothing at all! With the combat missions, on the other hand, you're almost always guaranteed something useful when you level up. This is something that I feel needs to change if trading is to be encouraged.
And even overall, I was hoping players would be able to specialize in certain fields rather than being forced to take all the missions just to have access to the bare essentials. For example my previous favorite config used to be a Warthog with a heavy engine/heavy battery combo, an advanced gatling turret, and a gemini launcher. I can get everything except the heavy engine with combat missions alone. However, I'm forced to become a trader just to get that engine that is needed for my configuration. I can't play the game right now in a way that'll specialize me for that role without wasting time on trading.
In addition, the bots give you both light and heavy skill points. I think each bot should give you either light or heavy points exclusively (in addition to the combat points of course). To some degree that's emphasized right now with one being higher than the other, but it's still not enough to allow specialization. With exclusively points, you allow players to specialize a role of their own (heavy gunner or light scout or whatever). I'm hoping the final game will allow something like that without forcing players to take every single mission to complete their configuration.
Aside from the combat missions being monotonous, another problem lies with its design. The availability of bots is very limited when many players are logged on. And imagine, this is a game that is only in its test phase. How will these combat missions handle hundreds of players scrambling for these twelve or so bots? The one thing I like to see in any game is not to simply pile up more enemies or bots or whatever in a level, or give them super powers to make up for their stupidity. The trick is to employ an effective training system that doesn't require multiple bots to be piled into a sector (which only contributes to more lag). In other words, smarter and fewer bots are better than an all-out easter egg hunt of newbies going after these dumb bots.
As far as the trading missions go, my only problem right now are the bugs. But this was something that was already anticipated since the announcement 3.4. So aside from that, I think the cargo missions are a fun way to take a break from killing bots all day. They give the player a chance to explore the universe and see all kinds of cool things on their way to their destinations. There's enough variety in the current version to keep you playing for a while without getting bored.
However, these trading missions aren't without their problems either. The rewards given lack enough incentive to get players to continue trading. There are only a few worthy skill upgrades within the trading missions right now, and between those sometimes the player is given nothing at all! With the combat missions, on the other hand, you're almost always guaranteed something useful when you level up. This is something that I feel needs to change if trading is to be encouraged.
And even overall, I was hoping players would be able to specialize in certain fields rather than being forced to take all the missions just to have access to the bare essentials. For example my previous favorite config used to be a Warthog with a heavy engine/heavy battery combo, an advanced gatling turret, and a gemini launcher. I can get everything except the heavy engine with combat missions alone. However, I'm forced to become a trader just to get that engine that is needed for my configuration. I can't play the game right now in a way that'll specialize me for that role without wasting time on trading.
In addition, the bots give you both light and heavy skill points. I think each bot should give you either light or heavy points exclusively (in addition to the combat points of course). To some degree that's emphasized right now with one being higher than the other, but it's still not enough to allow specialization. With exclusively points, you allow players to specialize a role of their own (heavy gunner or light scout or whatever). I'm hoping the final game will allow something like that without forcing players to take every single mission to complete their configuration.
I have to disagree on your later point. In the case of a light pilot, there is a big chance you focus on larger prey , because its slower and easier to kill off without it getting to you. This would then exclusively level you up in the weapon that -isn't- your choice.
really, the skillpoints should favour the kind of style you play, your setup, more than the target. Its more "get good at what you do" then.
really, the skillpoints should favour the kind of style you play, your setup, more than the target. Its more "get good at what you do" then.
Yeah, I agree with Spider about the experience part. Maybe a bot would give 100 experience points or something, and what that goes into (e.g. light weaponry) is dependant on what weapon you use? Something like that?
That would truly rock as it would give you a shift towards weapon of choice.
perhaps a split like this :
50% - fighting
35 - weapon of choice
15 - other weapon
just to make sure you actually get score in both. Albeit slower. (Faaar slower.)
perhaps a split like this :
50% - fighting
35 - weapon of choice
15 - other weapon
just to make sure you actually get score in both. Albeit slower. (Faaar slower.)
There are a lot of different propositions for different kinds of missions. They could vary for each faction. For NT, missions wouldn't be so government oriented. They would be more for personal gain or for a company. For the other two, it can be more military oriented.
1. Bring cargo somewhere. We already have these kinds of missions, but they should get better and better with xp. These missions would be for everyone.
2. Recover cargo. This would be definatly for when we have a much larger universe. It could be for everyone, but mostly for NT. The only problem is that someone may steal the cargo, but maybe we could have it so that the ship carrying the cargo releases the cargo only after a code is transmitted (only when the person with the mission messages it).
3. Destroy <NPC>. This would be bounty hunter missions, availible mostly for NT. Some for the other two, like "hunt down this traitor". Kill the NPC, maybe get its cargo, report back.
4. Intercept Convoy. Simlar to above, except its a whole lot of NPCs you'll be killing.
5. Steal <x> from station <x>. This would be for the two warring factions and any "warring" companies. An undercover operative would let you land, and then you'd have to escape the enemy with <x>.
There are many other choices for mission types if you put your mind to it.
As for the leveling up and getting liscenses, I think that there should be more weapons and engines, each either for trading or fighting. The efficient/fast charge is probably the best traders combo, in my openion. For light fighting, medium/medium and heavy, heavy/heavy.
1. Bring cargo somewhere. We already have these kinds of missions, but they should get better and better with xp. These missions would be for everyone.
2. Recover cargo. This would be definatly for when we have a much larger universe. It could be for everyone, but mostly for NT. The only problem is that someone may steal the cargo, but maybe we could have it so that the ship carrying the cargo releases the cargo only after a code is transmitted (only when the person with the mission messages it).
3. Destroy <NPC>. This would be bounty hunter missions, availible mostly for NT. Some for the other two, like "hunt down this traitor". Kill the NPC, maybe get its cargo, report back.
4. Intercept Convoy. Simlar to above, except its a whole lot of NPCs you'll be killing.
5. Steal <x> from station <x>. This would be for the two warring factions and any "warring" companies. An undercover operative would let you land, and then you'd have to escape the enemy with <x>.
There are many other choices for mission types if you put your mind to it.
As for the leveling up and getting liscenses, I think that there should be more weapons and engines, each either for trading or fighting. The efficient/fast charge is probably the best traders combo, in my openion. For light fighting, medium/medium and heavy, heavy/heavy.
Why does #5 have to be for Itani and Serco only? What about corporate espionage and the like?
Okay, thats true. Changed it.
Please, lower the xp needed for each level.
I think they're fine. It hasn't even been one full week since the release of 3.4, and people are expecting to have EVERYTHING? Geesh, c'mon guys. It's not uncommon for RPGs to take months for the player to reach the highest level of experience. Most people are impatient because they want to get back to their old configuration ASAP, and they know what lies at the end of the tunnel. Once the weapons/ships/engines have been tweaked (or changed), players are going to enjoy the game every step of the way rather than wanting to get to a point that they already know.
I'm actually beginning to see a new value for some of the lower level weapons and configurations that I've never seen before, because I always rushed to get the same high-level config over and over like everyone else. I don't know about you but the game is actually more fun this way. You actually see a true variation of ships and weapons, rather than having to encounter tri-flare Valks every single frickin' day. I'm sure we'll eventually get to the point where everyone maxes out at everything again, and the whole space Quake feel will return... but I gotta say right now the game hasn't been this fun since 3.0.x.
I'm actually beginning to see a new value for some of the lower level weapons and configurations that I've never seen before, because I always rushed to get the same high-level config over and over like everyone else. I don't know about you but the game is actually more fun this way. You actually see a true variation of ships and weapons, rather than having to encounter tri-flare Valks every single frickin' day. I'm sure we'll eventually get to the point where everyone maxes out at everything again, and the whole space Quake feel will return... but I gotta say right now the game hasn't been this fun since 3.0.x.
I'll drink to that arolte. :)
Never thought i'd see the day where flying around in a centaur would be considered a status symbol.
Seriously tho, the combat and trader paths need to be seperate, and both need to take a long time to get built up. this will help prevent people from pirating till out of money, then grabbing a maud and running to 18 for a load of adv nanites.
Never thought i'd see the day where flying around in a centaur would be considered a status symbol.
Seriously tho, the combat and trader paths need to be seperate, and both need to take a long time to get built up. this will help prevent people from pirating till out of money, then grabbing a maud and running to 18 for a load of adv nanites.
That's true. I agree, Spellcast. Again, it would be nice to have the option of specializing in something. I mean people can always become a jack of all trades by taking everything, but specialization is very limited at the moment. To some extent that may solve the money problem.
It's always good to give out ideas. Just in case :).
just, I think that you need 3 ways of leveling up, for battling it can be :
doging
obstilce corse
botting
and for trading
missions ( that is for both.)
trading by yourself ( slow but good )
and raceis ( pick up ball and race a bot to the station.
doging
obstilce corse
botting
and for trading
missions ( that is for both.)
trading by yourself ( slow but good )
and raceis ( pick up ball and race a bot to the station.