Forums » Suggestions
Suggestion: Launch two strike forces when a capship pilot is tkos/hate/kos with a faction.
Current situation:
When a pilot is KOS with faction, the SF focuses primarily on the pilot. This allows the capship pilot to undock, send a turbo command and fly in a different direction than their capital ship. Done quickly, both the pilot and the capital ship are able to leave the sector unscathed.
Eventually additional strike force make their way to the fleeing capital ship, but by then it has recharged its battery and can jump.
Example video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVDq7-qy9Lg
Opinion:
A hated pilot should have to make a decision rather to kill/disable sf on the way out of the sector or to abandon their capital ship.
Solution:
Launch two strike forces when a hated capital ship pilot enters a sector. When the hated pilot undocks from their capital ship, the secondary strike force will stick with the capital ship, and the primary with the pilot.
When a pilot is KOS with faction, the SF focuses primarily on the pilot. This allows the capship pilot to undock, send a turbo command and fly in a different direction than their capital ship. Done quickly, both the pilot and the capital ship are able to leave the sector unscathed.
Eventually additional strike force make their way to the fleeing capital ship, but by then it has recharged its battery and can jump.
Example video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVDq7-qy9Lg
Opinion:
A hated pilot should have to make a decision rather to kill/disable sf on the way out of the sector or to abandon their capital ship.
Solution:
Launch two strike forces when a hated capital ship pilot enters a sector. When the hated pilot undocks from their capital ship, the secondary strike force will stick with the capital ship, and the primary with the pilot.
This sounds like it's only a problem that needs solving if you're using the strike force as a weapon to destroy somebody's capship... 🤔
I watched your video, and a couple things stand out here:
1. That escape only worked because the station sector was empty of other players and it immediately went to sleep as soon as you jumped out. As far as I can tell, NPC simulations don't do strike force vs uncrewed player capship battles. I've seen this with border turrets as well.
2. This is basically a demonstration of a best-case-scenario escape from a Goliath (much faster than a Trident), with firecracker spam, using a UDV Raptor, unencumbered by any weapons, and fitted with the best powercell in the game, fully charged after undocking.
This doesn't even remotely represent what the usual capship vs strike force interaction is like. The overwhelming amount of PCB fire typically pins you down and even when you undock, all the bots start blasting you before you even have control of your ship.
1. That escape only worked because the station sector was empty of other players and it immediately went to sleep as soon as you jumped out. As far as I can tell, NPC simulations don't do strike force vs uncrewed player capship battles. I've seen this with border turrets as well.
2. This is basically a demonstration of a best-case-scenario escape from a Goliath (much faster than a Trident), with firecracker spam, using a UDV Raptor, unencumbered by any weapons, and fitted with the best powercell in the game, fully charged after undocking.
This doesn't even remotely represent what the usual capship vs strike force interaction is like. The overwhelming amount of PCB fire typically pins you down and even when you undock, all the bots start blasting you before you even have control of your ship.
Just want to add that NPC simulation *does* attack unpiloted capships and frequently destroys said capship with no recourse, even if you command it to jump out in time.
This doesn't even remotely represent what the usual capship vs strike force interaction is like. The overwhelming amount of PCB fire typically pins you down and even when you undock, all the bots start blasting you before you even have control of your ship.
You have not been attacked by the SF in a while. They are not the unrats. Most of your negative comments in suggestions are with data that is more than five years out of date. Please play the game and update your observations.
This sounds like it's only a problem that needs solving if you're using the strike force as a weapon to destroy somebody's capship...
A traders toon of mine was cap railed in the NFZ, and the pirate got away using this technique. Please stop assuming. You know what they say.
with firecracker spam
What are you talking about? Spam? The firecracker was used to trigger a NFZ violation. You are just making stuff up now.
You have not been attacked by the SF in a while. They are not the unrats. Most of your negative comments in suggestions are with data that is more than five years out of date. Please play the game and update your observations.
This sounds like it's only a problem that needs solving if you're using the strike force as a weapon to destroy somebody's capship...
A traders toon of mine was cap railed in the NFZ, and the pirate got away using this technique. Please stop assuming. You know what they say.
with firecracker spam
What are you talking about? Spam? The firecracker was used to trigger a NFZ violation. You are just making stuff up now.
I've done the same thing but this time launching in a low end fighter. Additionally, a player is in the sector, so it doesn't go to sleep.
The result is the same. The SF focus mainly on the fleeing perp, and not on the capital ship.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoCUt9_9yGk
This means my suggestion remains unchanged.
The result is the same. The SF focus mainly on the fleeing perp, and not on the capital ship.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoCUt9_9yGk
This means my suggestion remains unchanged.
System simulations do not immediately end when you jump out. It takes about a minute.
Ask me how I know :(
Ask me how I know :(
I think it makes sense to address this rare, narrow use case with urgency. +1
So, first of all, I want to clarify two different conditions of Sector State:
- "Simulation" means the sector is Offline and has exited from existence, as no players are present.
- "Online" means the sector is currently running, and fully operational. There is no "simulation" of NPC-vs-NPC, it's actually done with collisions and physics, just like players.
Any "Online" sector will continue operating as-normal, without any players, until a time-limit is reached since the last player jumped out.
Any "Offline" sector will do a special "simulation" of common-case expected behaviours, without the sector actually being "in existence" in a normal way. This simulation is a more limited set of possible behaviours, with various different outcomes based on probabilities, as opposed to a genuine "full physics" AI-vs-AI NPC event that happens in "online" sectors.
As far as I can tell, NPC simulations don't do strike force vs uncrewed player capship battles.
This is incorrect. Strike forces absolutely go after uncrewed player capships, and have for some time.
There was a persistent bug where the capship would sometimes "be killed" and then magically "come back to life", but that was resolved back in July.
Just want to add that NPC simulation *does* attack unpiloted capships and frequently destroys said capship with no recourse, even if you command it to jump out in time.
It is correct that NPCs (like the Strike Force) do attack un-piloted player capships, and will kill them. This happens regardless of whether the sector is online or offline.
System simulations do not immediately end when you jump out. It takes about a minute.
This is the confusing terminology (incorrect usage of "simulation"). It does take a little bit for sectors to shut down (timer since the last player left), but player capships will continue to be threatened by Strike Force whether the sector is online or not. That said, it does happen in different ways in the two situations.
I think it makes sense to address this rare, narrow use case with urgency. +1
I'm not opposed to that? But if this is sincere, it'd be helpful to get more detail on exactly why this is urgent? Is this really plaguing people a lot?
- "Simulation" means the sector is Offline and has exited from existence, as no players are present.
- "Online" means the sector is currently running, and fully operational. There is no "simulation" of NPC-vs-NPC, it's actually done with collisions and physics, just like players.
Any "Online" sector will continue operating as-normal, without any players, until a time-limit is reached since the last player jumped out.
Any "Offline" sector will do a special "simulation" of common-case expected behaviours, without the sector actually being "in existence" in a normal way. This simulation is a more limited set of possible behaviours, with various different outcomes based on probabilities, as opposed to a genuine "full physics" AI-vs-AI NPC event that happens in "online" sectors.
As far as I can tell, NPC simulations don't do strike force vs uncrewed player capship battles.
This is incorrect. Strike forces absolutely go after uncrewed player capships, and have for some time.
There was a persistent bug where the capship would sometimes "be killed" and then magically "come back to life", but that was resolved back in July.
Just want to add that NPC simulation *does* attack unpiloted capships and frequently destroys said capship with no recourse, even if you command it to jump out in time.
It is correct that NPCs (like the Strike Force) do attack un-piloted player capships, and will kill them. This happens regardless of whether the sector is online or offline.
System simulations do not immediately end when you jump out. It takes about a minute.
This is the confusing terminology (incorrect usage of "simulation"). It does take a little bit for sectors to shut down (timer since the last player left), but player capships will continue to be threatened by Strike Force whether the sector is online or not. That said, it does happen in different ways in the two situations.
I think it makes sense to address this rare, narrow use case with urgency. +1
I'm not opposed to that? But if this is sincere, it'd be helpful to get more detail on exactly why this is urgent? Is this really plaguing people a lot?
This is the confusing terminology (incorrect usage of "simulation"). It does take a little bit for sectors to shut down (timer since the last player left), but player capships will continue to be threatened by Strike Force whether the sector is online or not.
Sorry, that is what I meant. This functionality makes dying with your capship in-sector deadly when Unrats or Hive Queens are present unless it was already somewhat out of harm's way (read: has enough time for the sector to go "offline"). I said this in response to abortretryfail's comment of:
That escape only worked because the station sector was empty of other players and it immediately went to sleep as soon as you jumped out. As far as I can tell, NPC simulations don't do strike force vs uncrewed player capship battles. I've seen this with border turrets as well.
...which is just not true. I don't think it's as urgent as Greenwall says, but I agree it being addressed would make brazen assaults within the NFZ be more consequential.
Sorry, that is what I meant. This functionality makes dying with your capship in-sector deadly when Unrats or Hive Queens are present unless it was already somewhat out of harm's way (read: has enough time for the sector to go "offline"). I said this in response to abortretryfail's comment of:
That escape only worked because the station sector was empty of other players and it immediately went to sleep as soon as you jumped out. As far as I can tell, NPC simulations don't do strike force vs uncrewed player capship battles. I've seen this with border turrets as well.
...which is just not true. I don't think it's as urgent as Greenwall says, but I agree it being addressed would make brazen assaults within the NFZ be more consequential.
I can't for the life of me understand why PvP attacks in the NFZ need to be more consequential than they already are. Updates over the last couple of years have made this a non-starter most of the time anyway. I know that some seem to wish there were no player pirates in the game.. or no possibility of being subjected to combat by another player against your will.. but please consider that it is foundational to the game culture that this is a possibility. This game culture has been the same for 20 years now. Yet we still see people littering the suggestion forums with requests that slowly erode this aspect of the game. It seems that some people won't be happy until another player can't kill them at all.. or until it's impossible to kill another player without having instant death from an NPC of some sort. Come on folks.. this is an MMO, player to player relationships and interaction are inherent and required.
I can't for the life of me understand why PvP attacks in the NFZ need to be more consequential than they already are.
Well, I think people just don't want their adversaries to escape and "bait" them too trivially. There should generally be ramifications to dangerous choices. An NFZ violator's capship becoming properly KoS and having its own Strike Force doesn't seem like some kind of huge logical leap?
This game culture has been the same for 20 years now.
We didn't have the same problems 20 years ago. People didn't have capships where they could repair and fly away and so on. If the game's design is in-flux, then the parameters of the culture will be in-flux. Adaptation to change should be everyone's expectation, including yours. Otherwise, we might as well stop adding features.
Come on folks.. this is an MMO, player to player relationships and interaction are inherent and required.
Except that.. this is one of the only MMORPGs in history that has constant non-consensual PvP.
I played Ultima Online in beta when they had it, but it didn't make it to launch, heh. MMOs with ganking rarely make it very long, with a handful of exceptions.
Anyway: Let's stick to the topic at hand, instead of editorializing about "all PvP is being nerfed" or whatever.
Well, I think people just don't want their adversaries to escape and "bait" them too trivially. There should generally be ramifications to dangerous choices. An NFZ violator's capship becoming properly KoS and having its own Strike Force doesn't seem like some kind of huge logical leap?
This game culture has been the same for 20 years now.
We didn't have the same problems 20 years ago. People didn't have capships where they could repair and fly away and so on. If the game's design is in-flux, then the parameters of the culture will be in-flux. Adaptation to change should be everyone's expectation, including yours. Otherwise, we might as well stop adding features.
Come on folks.. this is an MMO, player to player relationships and interaction are inherent and required.
Except that.. this is one of the only MMORPGs in history that has constant non-consensual PvP.
I played Ultima Online in beta when they had it, but it didn't make it to launch, heh. MMOs with ganking rarely make it very long, with a handful of exceptions.
Anyway: Let's stick to the topic at hand, instead of editorializing about "all PvP is being nerfed" or whatever.