Forums » Suggestions
Firecracker fire rate nerf.
Fire rate oughta be a third of what it is, it would still do it's job just... less effectively.
Thanks to gunner alt exploiting it's an endless spam machine - as soon as you start to take hits from it it tends to keep hitting; effectively disabling the ship until it turbos or dies to the other cap turrets. a single turret can render multiple fighters nearby useless since it can switch targets between shots thusly lowering the fire rate would help mitigate this.
Capships aren't very vulnerable in their current state (The goliath in particular thanks to it's speed and rear facing turret) taking the nerf bat to firecrackers wouldn't hurt.
Thanks to gunner alt exploiting it's an endless spam machine - as soon as you start to take hits from it it tends to keep hitting; effectively disabling the ship until it turbos or dies to the other cap turrets. a single turret can render multiple fighters nearby useless since it can switch targets between shots thusly lowering the fire rate would help mitigate this.
Capships aren't very vulnerable in their current state (The goliath in particular thanks to it's speed and rear facing turret) taking the nerf bat to firecrackers wouldn't hurt.
-1 the firecracker as is, is a balance against the Pcb.
Also are you actually seeing anyone using gunner alts these days let alone exploiting anything ?
Capships are super vulnerable in their current state these days .
Also are you actually seeing anyone using gunner alts these days let alone exploiting anything ?
Capships are super vulnerable in their current state these days .
a single turret can render multiple fighters nearby useless
This has never happened. I guarantee you two fighters flown by halfway decent pilots would kill a capship carrying even one firecracker with very little difficulty (or at least with little more difficulty than they would fighting a capship already). Mounting firecrackers is a downgrade in almost every way.
Some napkin (read: google calculator) math: A Vulture III with 8600 health (most players chasing capships will be flying something better, with more health and maneuverability than this unless it's a greyhound) would need 43 direct hits from a firecracker (doing 200 damage with each hit) to be destroyed. That's 65 seconds (with a 1.5s fire delay) to kill that singular vulture, assuming every single shot lands, which is an insanely ideal situation. Factor in that you're saying "multiple" here, which means at least two, and that time to kill both of them is doubled. 65 seconds is enough time for a player homed in the same system to come back even if he's dead, unless both fighters died at the same time, which is not likely (unless they died to something else - I'll come back to this).
The capship pilot gains very little offensively by mounting a firecracker. He loses a full turret (a LOT of damage output), making him a sitting duck in a fight against, say, another capship, and he's almost useless against bombers on whatever axis the turret is sitting on. Even the fighters that are flying closer benefit by being able to fly right by whatever side of the ship the firecracker is mounted on and not have to worry about as much/any incoming fire from capital class weaponry like gauss or rails.
The only benefit the capship does gain is that a fighter cannot hover in one spot firing at it from 300 meters away and expect to be completely untouchable - which is why I think this suggestion was made.
I said I'd come back to "dying to something else". Realistically, no one is going to die to firecrackers. Their purpose in the current (very limited) set of weaponry for capships is to buy time, whether that be for the turrets to get an accurate shot (unlikely unless the enemy fighter is very, very close and was likely about to be hit already); for the pilot to launch from his ship and fight the attacker head on (which means the turrets are going to stop firing); or for backup to show up/capitalize on breaks in the attacking ship's pattern. To act like the firecracker alone makes a capship unassailable, let alone to multiple attackers, is completely dishonest to me. I don't even mount the things due to the above drawbacks.
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That said, I think that firecrackers look silly. I also think the Goliath is still too good for its purpose as the "budget" capship. But both of those problems are solved elsewhere. I think some sort of flak and/or concussion weapons mounted as a turret that are much more accurate/likely to land a hit compared to capgauss/rails would fit the same bill and look less silly. And the Goliath just needs a nerf (slow the acceleration and remove the rear turret). But those are outside of the scope of this thread.
I really think capships should only be added to content-wise, not subtracted from. They're sparse enough as it is. So in general I'd like to see alternatives added before the existing options get removed or nerfed further. They're basically only good for area denial as it is.
As far as how quickly the weapons reload, I made a suggestion on that note...
This has never happened. I guarantee you two fighters flown by halfway decent pilots would kill a capship carrying even one firecracker with very little difficulty (or at least with little more difficulty than they would fighting a capship already). Mounting firecrackers is a downgrade in almost every way.
Some napkin (read: google calculator) math: A Vulture III with 8600 health (most players chasing capships will be flying something better, with more health and maneuverability than this unless it's a greyhound) would need 43 direct hits from a firecracker (doing 200 damage with each hit) to be destroyed. That's 65 seconds (with a 1.5s fire delay) to kill that singular vulture, assuming every single shot lands, which is an insanely ideal situation. Factor in that you're saying "multiple" here, which means at least two, and that time to kill both of them is doubled. 65 seconds is enough time for a player homed in the same system to come back even if he's dead, unless both fighters died at the same time, which is not likely (unless they died to something else - I'll come back to this).
The capship pilot gains very little offensively by mounting a firecracker. He loses a full turret (a LOT of damage output), making him a sitting duck in a fight against, say, another capship, and he's almost useless against bombers on whatever axis the turret is sitting on. Even the fighters that are flying closer benefit by being able to fly right by whatever side of the ship the firecracker is mounted on and not have to worry about as much/any incoming fire from capital class weaponry like gauss or rails.
The only benefit the capship does gain is that a fighter cannot hover in one spot firing at it from 300 meters away and expect to be completely untouchable - which is why I think this suggestion was made.
I said I'd come back to "dying to something else". Realistically, no one is going to die to firecrackers. Their purpose in the current (very limited) set of weaponry for capships is to buy time, whether that be for the turrets to get an accurate shot (unlikely unless the enemy fighter is very, very close and was likely about to be hit already); for the pilot to launch from his ship and fight the attacker head on (which means the turrets are going to stop firing); or for backup to show up/capitalize on breaks in the attacking ship's pattern. To act like the firecracker alone makes a capship unassailable, let alone to multiple attackers, is completely dishonest to me. I don't even mount the things due to the above drawbacks.
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That said, I think that firecrackers look silly. I also think the Goliath is still too good for its purpose as the "budget" capship. But both of those problems are solved elsewhere. I think some sort of flak and/or concussion weapons mounted as a turret that are much more accurate/likely to land a hit compared to capgauss/rails would fit the same bill and look less silly. And the Goliath just needs a nerf (slow the acceleration and remove the rear turret). But those are outside of the scope of this thread.
I really think capships should only be added to content-wise, not subtracted from. They're sparse enough as it is. So in general I'd like to see alternatives added before the existing options get removed or nerfed further. They're basically only good for area denial as it is.
As far as how quickly the weapons reload, I made a suggestion on that note...
Firecracker concussion doesn't do damage but the fact that they can contact the ship going at the speed they go at does; this has been greatly mitigated by the drastic reduction in collision damage but it still happens - It's just a crapshoot.
They can also project out to 2.2k against fighters and I've seen it used like this plenty to shut down fights between fighters at a distance; assuming half the missiles miss (they won't unless the targeted fighter disengages) well they'll be dead in roughly two minutes which isn't a long time for a fighter vs fighter engagement.
Another potential solution is to lower the lifespan of the projectile to 5s.
They can also project out to 2.2k against fighters and I've seen it used like this plenty to shut down fights between fighters at a distance; assuming half the missiles miss (they won't unless the targeted fighter disengages) well they'll be dead in roughly two minutes which isn't a long time for a fighter vs fighter engagement.
Another potential solution is to lower the lifespan of the projectile to 5s.
Even if I agreed that 2.2k is too far out for a capship to disrupt a fight (and I don’t) a 75% reduction in the missile’s lifespan is extreme. Capswarms can be fired from even farther, and of course they don’t have the same speed or tracking but you’ll absolutely have to move out of their way if you’re in a fighter against another fighter. Hell, even chaos swarms fly the same, though they do less damage.
They can also project out to 2.2k against fighters and I've seen it used like this plenty to shut down fights between fighters at a distance
Cap swarms can shoot out to 2400, gems to about 1600, Cap Cannons will hit around 2300, and Capital rails around 3900.
The range on turrets is not an issue, because fighters can just move (quickly) beyond the range of the turrets.
If someone is having a hard time attacking a capital ship that has Capital Swarms and and Firecrackers, I suggest attacking with chaos swarms. Just don't fly straight at the capital ship. You'll find that this technique is very effective. Once the capital ship is deshieled, it just a matter of nickel-and-diming Its armor from distance. If you need a ranged energy weapon, the Gat HV can fire from over 600m,
Cap swarms can shoot out to 2400, gems to about 1600, Cap Cannons will hit around 2300, and Capital rails around 3900.
The range on turrets is not an issue, because fighters can just move (quickly) beyond the range of the turrets.
If someone is having a hard time attacking a capital ship that has Capital Swarms and and Firecrackers, I suggest attacking with chaos swarms. Just don't fly straight at the capital ship. You'll find that this technique is very effective. Once the capital ship is deshieled, it just a matter of nickel-and-diming Its armor from distance. If you need a ranged energy weapon, the Gat HV can fire from over 600m,
Agreed. Argument already made and typical political divisions were taken. Incarnate did nothing.
https://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/37897
KVOGA
https://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/37897
KVOGA