I always wondered (and few others as well), do these awesome capital mining beams must use an absurd amount of grid power?
Isnt 50 a bit too excessive?
Halving it to 25 would at least let us to equip some kind of capital weaponry for self defense, like a capital cannon.
As I dont see any reason for a mining beam to use waay more grid than a capswarm does.
I dont think it would hurt the balance of them by just letting some capital weapon to be equipped, as subcapital ones are rather lackluster in effectiveness.
This only affects goliaths, what I use these mining beams on, and probably others use them similarly as well.

+1
Would love to be able to just put one capcannon/rail on my mining goli for self defense against bots. Regular turrets do nothing unless you constantly toggle the autoturret on/off to get single shots to hit because spamfire just sends the bots all over while they still shoot you.

-1
Gem turrets work fine to kill bots. Or a partner to shoot the bots. You could also use a HD beam instead a Queen Beam.

Gem turrets work fine to kill bots. Or a partner to shoot the bots. You could also use a HD beam instead a Queen Beam.

First, I am talking about players, not only bots. Also, even gems take forever to kill even bots.

Second, why would I use a HD beam over something what is literally 3 times better? That mining beam was added because of a reason, to be used on capital ships.
But that does not mean it has to use such an outrageously high amount of grid power.

+1 makes sense, weird that it's like 3 HD beams but 25x grid lol

QMB actually eats 50 grid, may more than any weapon ig, and and it isn't even offensive.

Besides have you sat and tried killing bots with gem turrets? Bot dodges once and missle breaks tracking unlike swarms despite being guided. Then add in turret hopping to constantly reload the turret which interrupts mining. I mean if youre gonna suggest that then I guess your advocating bringing back turret bots which were killed for a reason from what I understand. There aren't enough players ig to be begging them for protection or to man your turrets. Not all of us multibox 4 accounts or more.

Just one cap turret for self defense....

The way I see it, the intent of the high grid power is to make it not be a default choice, making your capship markedly worse in return for having such a good mining beam on hand. Without that grid requirement, you'd have no reason to ever take it off unless you were specifically trying to maximize your capship's DPS (usually for Leviathans). Halving the grid requirement to 25 would mean a Trident would run almost completely normally, being able to mount four capital turrets (excluding swarms).

Also, when I see "Halving it to 25 would at least let us to equip some kind of capital weaponry for self defense, like a capital cannon." that indicates to me that this is only regarding the Goliath, which seems to be intended as a budget capship, much less able than the Trident. The Trident can survive by only giving up one of four capital class turrets while running the the mining beam, so if you want to run the beam while keeping your turrets you already can. You just have to spend the time on getting a Trident if you think it's really worth it.

I think more gear needs to force the player to make compromises, not less. -1

Being able to run one cap turret and a QMB would not be an optimal setup, but a compromise between the current setup which is very little defense and having an all out warship-miner rig. I can't think of any reason a pilot not engaged in mining would want to handicap themselves by not loading 2 cap turrets and a MPosi/Plasma/Mine for fighting/defense. Why would a pilot go into a fight with only one cap turret and reduce thier defensive capabilities when they could use 2?

The only reason I could see this not being allowed in the past would be because some pilots might crytal farm while mining. However, you will quickly cap out on the crystals you earn because of the limits, and you wont pull any good drops because of the turret kills, so that point becomes moot. If thats the concern then pehaps you shouldnt earn crystals from auto-turret kills at all?

A Dent giving up one turret for a mining beam as Ionic mentioned for protection isnt even missed when mining. A Goli however cant equip even a single cap turret and IMO is not balanced. Right now its just a 600cu BMH2. Making a Goli less effective than a full combat rig, but more effective at defense by slightly reducing the QMB grid would be a reasonable compromise without making the Goli too powerful in a mining configuration.

Second, why would I use a HD beam over something what is literally 3 times better
Because you want to use capital class weapons while you mine from your discount capital ship.

Right now its just a 600cu BMH2
With shields. And a 4000 energy power cell to power energy turrets. And a built in storm range extender. And built in cargo/mineral/addon scanners. And the ability to build energy while turboing.

Then add in turret hopping to constantly reload the turret which interrupts mining.

Then undock and fight the bots. Your capital ship can mine AND gather ore on its own.

Sure I could do all those things as a workaround, but is that really the use intended by Inc?

Shields that can be dropped by 2 Aputek Guardians in seconds... Unodck to fight and you lose hold space and XP/badge counters. Oh btw if you max mine via command then dock your technically overstuffing which I'm pretty sure wasnt intended although not addressed yet.

Was it actually intended to mine via cap command where you wont get any mining xp or counters toward badges, or sitting in the chair where you get credit? Capships aren't single person fighters. Some of you want to say they should behave like a fighter, but do you really think a ship that big is going to only have one person in it? Isnt that the point of turrets? And before anyone says "bring a turret gunner with", where you gonna get them from? The massive pool of pilots we have in VO? LOL. It's a freaking capital ship, discount or not. Capital ships can mount capital turrets. Auto-turret command is supposed to simulate having a gunner, which it kinda does. Rediculous that people think one cap turret on a goli will braek the game or cause an unfair advantage, or exploit especially when it relates to mining.

My last post on this thread. Patiently waiting to see Incarnate's thoughts if he chooses to weigh in.

50 grid is off the charts absurd. Change it.

+1

+1

I have no compelling arguements, other than:

1. Self interest
2. Improved "customer satisfaction"
3. My gratitude if approved.

Thanks ;)

Then undock and fight the bots. Your capital ship can mine AND gather ore on its own.

Yeah and getting constantly wrecked by 3 bots, both you in a fighter and goliath with paper thin shields? Repairing just 2 minutes after you entered a sector is not fun. Its more like insanely painful and annoying.

Subcapital weapons are worthless against bots.. They are meant for atlases/moths. Nothing will hit bots, and u will be dead before you kill one. Not even mentioning players who will just shrug off any attacks just by getting out of turret range or making missiles to lose guidance.

Docked ships take up cargo space you could otherwise use to fill it with ore. Even if you lose some with a docked XC to unload. But having to keep an XC at every station I have ore at, like a dozen of them, and also having to spend time to swap ships just to unload is just not convinient at all.

Also, the capship will be cluttered with ore you don't need very fast, especially when want to mine a specific ore, its just a huuge waste of time to always dock back while getting shot in the face just to jettison ore you dont need.

Just a grid requirement reduction would not turn them to some broken battleboat, just give us some legroom for choosing what turret types to use.

This mostly only affects goliaths, but I mean... would it make a big difference having a mining beam alongside 4 capital cannons, on a trident?
Using HD beams on a capital ship while we have an otherwise very good HQMB just because it has an outrageous grid usage just makes no sense...

Why would it hurt that much?

While goliaths are "easy" to build, they are still capital ships after all. Capital ships deserve the capabilities of one. While their capabilities are limited, we built them because of a reason.
To make our life easier.
And not the opposite.

Why don't we just give the bhm2 shields, extra turrets, and more hp. Why have tradeoffs? Let's just make every ship able to do everything all at once. It would make life easier.

This is not a place for trolling, search it elsewhere.
Probably my last words on this are just two things

First, why you are so afraid of such a simple change with no marginal impact on game balance?

And second, let Incarnate himself make a thought on this, as we will just argue endlessly what is good and isnt for VO, as everyone just wants to force opinions on everyone else who not thinks the same.

"QMB actually eats 50 grid, may more than any weapon ig, and and it isn't even offensive.
"

^this. There really isn't a rational existing gameplay argument for it requirement 50 grid. The arbitrary 50 grid should halved to 25.

Shields that can be dropped by 2 Aputek Guardians in seconds

I made a video for you. You can keep two aputechs off your goli indefinitely using non capital weapons. All while it mines for you.

^this. There really isn't a rational existing gameplay argument for it requirement 50 grid. The arbitrary 50 grid should halved to 25.

Grid is an arbitrary game mechanic intended for balancing and the creation of trade-offs. I am going to use it arbitrarily. If you want to invent some explanation in your head about how its magical phaso-boosters require more reactor capacitance, be my guest. But, your above comment is not useful feedback as a justification for change on Suggestions. It's literally a game. It has game rules, like "Bishops move diagonally".

let Incarnate himself make a thought on this

Well, I did define it the way it currently is, so it would be limited, and people in lower end capital ships would have to make more significant trade-offs. Which is exactly the problem you seem to have with the current implementation.

Second, why would I use a HD beam over something what is literally 3 times better? That mining beam was added because of a reason, to be used on capital ships.

I mean, because it presents a significant balance trade-off, and that's interesting? VO has a long history of being about "equipping for the task at hand" (or even the skills of the individual) as opposed to "there's one single equipment loadout that is absolutely the best for all (mining) conditions".

This thread seems to mostly be about "The stats of (addon) aren't as good as they could be, and we want the stats to be better, so playing the game is easier!". That is not really how I approach game design. I'm interested in relative tradeoffs, and challenges, and difficulty / uncertainty.

A Goliath is a lightly shielded minivan. It has some cool capabilities (which we do keep adding to). It is not perfect. It is not a military battlecruiser or the best mining ship in the universe, etc, and it never will be. Automation, remote commands and ability to repair / carry ships are already huge advantages.

So, anyway, the best I can say here is that I'll examine in the relative grid requirements of addons in the next round of capship changes, but I don't promise anything. I don't see any meaningful arguments here that justify changing anything.

+1, ive suggested this before..

even a grid change of -4 would allow us to use all three turrets with basic 4 grid requirements. im not talking heavy cap weapons or anything, just the ability to fill all the turrets. the single empty turret slot already fires a neut.. its simply giving us the ability to change its weapon type, or non weapon for that matter.