Forums » Suggestions
fake unrats keep players trapped
even with a dent unrats are not fun... they cant kill it... but I'd like to visit pollito in deneb... damn overpowered odia unrats interfere with player interaction. EVERYONE wants them GONE incarnate! They add nothing to VO. They take away from players and this is an mmo not a pvo Only the PVE cowards like them.
Let the players dominate this great game you made, lot overpowered overnumbered pve's that we can't buy or hire or even elect to join and defend. I put the unrats under my protection sometimes... they don't even respect that!
Let the players dominate this great game you made, lot overpowered overnumbered pve's that we can't buy or hire or even elect to join and defend. I put the unrats under my protection sometimes... they don't even respect that!
Wow alright, first @biretak please put some effort into grammar and writing suggestion forums.
I remember when unrats were added in and it was all the craze. They were always farmed everytime they spawned.
"EVERYONE wants them GONE incarnate!" -biretak
What gives you the right to speak for all of VO? You certainly don't speak for me.
"They add nothing to VO."- biretak
Unrats do add some risk and also add in nice collaboration in VO if anyone wants to kill the connie/dent.
I don't believe unrats are oppressive in grey space. Considering how farmed they are back then and I hear they are still farmed today.
" lot overpowered overnumbered pve's that we can't buy or hire or even elect to join and defend." -biretak
It's called squadrons.
https://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/36668#418324
I actually suggested to extend the squadron timer from 30mins to 1hr. You can hire serco/UIT squadrons and easily bring them to B8. Itani's sadly can't as we can't launch from Jallik. (no barracks station there)
I remember when unrats were added in and it was all the craze. They were always farmed everytime they spawned.
"EVERYONE wants them GONE incarnate!" -biretak
What gives you the right to speak for all of VO? You certainly don't speak for me.
"They add nothing to VO."- biretak
Unrats do add some risk and also add in nice collaboration in VO if anyone wants to kill the connie/dent.
I don't believe unrats are oppressive in grey space. Considering how farmed they are back then and I hear they are still farmed today.
" lot overpowered overnumbered pve's that we can't buy or hire or even elect to join and defend." -biretak
It's called squadrons.
https://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/36668#418324
I actually suggested to extend the squadron timer from 30mins to 1hr. You can hire serco/UIT squadrons and easily bring them to B8. Itani's sadly can't as we can't launch from Jallik. (no barracks station there)
death546 we have levi's for risk and collaboration.. unrats were something added when player counts got low... we didn't need them then and we dont need them now.
they are stronger today... atleast seem to be.. used to solo them in dent at wh's and at their camp
if you want to fight pves, why play an mmo death546??
and what the heck are squadrons? I don't want to need them! LOL... MMO!!! Are you suggesting we get rid of them too?
and when they spawn after you jump in... NOT fun at all!!! You can barely get a dent out even though you scouted ahead of time... which is NOT fun!
they are stronger today... atleast seem to be.. used to solo them in dent at wh's and at their camp
if you want to fight pves, why play an mmo death546??
and what the heck are squadrons? I don't want to need them! LOL... MMO!!! Are you suggesting we get rid of them too?
and when they spawn after you jump in... NOT fun at all!!! You can barely get a dent out even though you scouted ahead of time... which is NOT fun!
I have a counter offer... unrats cannot come into a sector they were not in within 5 minutes of that player which did not see them that was scouting ahead... even if they were destroyed by another player the player that traveled through did not see... get rid of the surprise unrats. It's silly to have to go back and rescue your dent if you are scouting ahead.
Unrats are fine. I can easy get a goli past em without losing shields. U just dunno how to fly.
they are stronger today... atleast seem to be.. used to solo them in dent at wh's and at their camp
Not that I'm aware of? We haven't changed them in quite awhile.
if you want to fight pves, why play an mmo death546??
PvE is a huge part of every major MMORPG. In fact, it is far more common than PvP, which is relatively rare. Games like World of Warcraft are almost entirely PvE. Most people actually like getting together with friends to take on common enemies.
and when they spawn after you jump in... NOT fun at all!!!
You mean, just like actual players? God forbid NPCs should be scouting as well.
It's silly to have to go back and rescue your dent if you are scouting ahead.
Grayspace is dangerous. Like it says in the tutorial.
It's going to become more dangerous. Some players are way too used to conceptual safety in that region, especially some with capships.
The community response on unrats has been overwhelmingly positive. It's not only arrogant to claim "EVERYONE wants them GONE incarnate!", it's objectively incorrect, by any reasonable measure. By far the most feedback we've gotten is how people would like more of them.. people ask for them to be around more often, more types, more variety, more spawning situations and circumstances with varied interactions and rewards.
VO is always evolving, maybe at some point you'll be able to bribe, hire or align with certain PvE groups, but I definitely don't guarantee that it will happen to all of them.
Someone will probably always want to kill you in grayspace. Expect danger there.
Not that I'm aware of? We haven't changed them in quite awhile.
if you want to fight pves, why play an mmo death546??
PvE is a huge part of every major MMORPG. In fact, it is far more common than PvP, which is relatively rare. Games like World of Warcraft are almost entirely PvE. Most people actually like getting together with friends to take on common enemies.
and when they spawn after you jump in... NOT fun at all!!!
You mean, just like actual players? God forbid NPCs should be scouting as well.
It's silly to have to go back and rescue your dent if you are scouting ahead.
Grayspace is dangerous. Like it says in the tutorial.
It's going to become more dangerous. Some players are way too used to conceptual safety in that region, especially some with capships.
The community response on unrats has been overwhelmingly positive. It's not only arrogant to claim "EVERYONE wants them GONE incarnate!", it's objectively incorrect, by any reasonable measure. By far the most feedback we've gotten is how people would like more of them.. people ask for them to be around more often, more types, more variety, more spawning situations and circumstances with varied interactions and rewards.
VO is always evolving, maybe at some point you'll be able to bribe, hire or align with certain PvE groups, but I definitely don't guarantee that it will happen to all of them.
Someone will probably always want to kill you in grayspace. Expect danger there.
"and what the heck are squadrons? I don't want to need them! LOL... MMO!!! Are you suggesting we get rid of them too?" -biretak
I mentioned squadrons because they are 1-2 NPC options you can hire for credits. I actually like the NPC presence of the convoys, blockades, and unrats. Why? Because in VO we don't have much more superior power compared to an NPC pilot. All we are is just skilled veterans according to various missions. So don't expect the idea you are above the powers of the corporations and nations. None of us are.
I felt that was your point of view when making this suggestion biretak. Going out on a limb there.
death546 we have levi's for risk and collaboration.. unrats were something added when player counts got low... we didn't need them then and we dont need them now.- biretak
That is a really weak excuse on why unrats were added into VO. You lose your creditably when you pull out player count reasons. People have been asking for them for quite a long time. While VO is a small game it still needs these NPCs to make it vibrant. This is no substitute for real players and when we have this (vibrant NPCs/unrats/convoys) and many players things are pretty fun! It actually turns a game into a little universe.
I mentioned squadrons because they are 1-2 NPC options you can hire for credits. I actually like the NPC presence of the convoys, blockades, and unrats. Why? Because in VO we don't have much more superior power compared to an NPC pilot. All we are is just skilled veterans according to various missions. So don't expect the idea you are above the powers of the corporations and nations. None of us are.
I felt that was your point of view when making this suggestion biretak. Going out on a limb there.
death546 we have levi's for risk and collaboration.. unrats were something added when player counts got low... we didn't need them then and we dont need them now.- biretak
That is a really weak excuse on why unrats were added into VO. You lose your creditably when you pull out player count reasons. People have been asking for them for quite a long time. While VO is a small game it still needs these NPCs to make it vibrant. This is no substitute for real players and when we have this (vibrant NPCs/unrats/convoys) and many players things are pretty fun! It actually turns a game into a little universe.
they have been made harder since the change to more projectiles near them the faster they move. it makes it incrediably hard to pve on mobile with this method in place and makes it turn from a 1min fight to a 30min fight per bot. not to mention the delay on auto fire means u miss every shot, therefore making autofire useless and less nub friendly
they have been made harder since the change to more projectiles near them the faster they move
Umm. The bot's "projectile-avoidance" has not been changed in many years. Nor has their speed or acceleration.
Basically, I have no idea what you're talking about, and I suspect this is some confusion over your personal connection ping issues, or some such.
not to mention the delay on auto fire means u miss every shot, therefore making autofire useless and less nub friendly
Unrats in gray are definitely not "nub friendly", and are not intended to be.
Umm. The bot's "projectile-avoidance" has not been changed in many years. Nor has their speed or acceleration.
Basically, I have no idea what you're talking about, and I suspect this is some confusion over your personal connection ping issues, or some such.
not to mention the delay on auto fire means u miss every shot, therefore making autofire useless and less nub friendly
Unrats in gray are definitely not "nub friendly", and are not intended to be.
"Basically, I have no idea what you're talking about, and I suspect this is some confusion over your personal connection ping issues, or some such."
bot avoidance HAS been changed... everyone knows it... and yes it was quite some time ago.. you may feel as though it's "ok" to say otherwise simply because it's some other factor you changed.. like the aiming accuracy of the guns or something.. but everyone who has played this game for any length of time knows it has changed. NO pilot, bot or human should be able to repeatedly dodge a caprail at 300m.. I used to shoot players and bots from 4k out with a caprail.. so yes you have changed something.
bot avoidance HAS been changed... everyone knows it... and yes it was quite some time ago.. you may feel as though it's "ok" to say otherwise simply because it's some other factor you changed.. like the aiming accuracy of the guns or something.. but everyone who has played this game for any length of time knows it has changed. NO pilot, bot or human should be able to repeatedly dodge a caprail at 300m.. I used to shoot players and bots from 4k out with a caprail.. so yes you have changed something.
I haven't seen a bot dodge caprail at 300m so far. Interesting.
bot avoidance HAS been changed... everyone knows it... and yes it was quite some time ago.. you may feel as though it's "ok" to say otherwise simply because it's some other factor you changed.. like the aiming accuracy of the guns or something..
So, just to repeat back what you're saying:
1) Bot Avoidance Has Changed!
2) Everyone Knows It!
3) But Maybe It was Aiming Accuracy (and not actually bot avoidance at all).
You see how #3 negates #1 and #2, right?
All I commented on was that bot-avoidance hadn't changed, and it certainly doesn't have something to do with "the more projectiles near them the faster they move".
you may feel as though it's "ok" to say otherwise simply because it's some other factor you changed
Yes, not only is that "ok", it's very important. I was responding to a specific and "definitively stated" accusation. Which was wrong. It is certainly "ok" for me to clear up ignorance and misconceptions by the players, so we can have more useful discussions of actual problems, instead of ranting about fictitious BS.
I don't currently remember what has happened with caprails, and would have to look it up. Railguns, of course, are aim-quantized and always have been (as is widely known). Which means there's a bit of "uncertainty" any time you aim, the error of which increases with distance.
Getting "lucky" at 4km and then completely missing the next shot at another target at the same distance (due to quantization error) is completely.. expected behaviour. It's going to be a bit random, due to the quantization of orientations.
But, to put it simply "FAILING TO HIT" and "BOTS DODGING" or are not the same issue.
If you want to make some claim like "it's seems harder for us to shoot NPC unrat fighters with caprails than it used to be a couple of years ago", hey, that has some value.
But pretending like you "definitively" understand what the cause is, and that "everyone knows that", is unhelpful. That isn't really what this forum is here for.
So, just to repeat back what you're saying:
1) Bot Avoidance Has Changed!
2) Everyone Knows It!
3) But Maybe It was Aiming Accuracy (and not actually bot avoidance at all).
You see how #3 negates #1 and #2, right?
All I commented on was that bot-avoidance hadn't changed, and it certainly doesn't have something to do with "the more projectiles near them the faster they move".
you may feel as though it's "ok" to say otherwise simply because it's some other factor you changed
Yes, not only is that "ok", it's very important. I was responding to a specific and "definitively stated" accusation. Which was wrong. It is certainly "ok" for me to clear up ignorance and misconceptions by the players, so we can have more useful discussions of actual problems, instead of ranting about fictitious BS.
I don't currently remember what has happened with caprails, and would have to look it up. Railguns, of course, are aim-quantized and always have been (as is widely known). Which means there's a bit of "uncertainty" any time you aim, the error of which increases with distance.
Getting "lucky" at 4km and then completely missing the next shot at another target at the same distance (due to quantization error) is completely.. expected behaviour. It's going to be a bit random, due to the quantization of orientations.
But, to put it simply "FAILING TO HIT" and "BOTS DODGING" or are not the same issue.
If you want to make some claim like "it's seems harder for us to shoot NPC unrat fighters with caprails than it used to be a couple of years ago", hey, that has some value.
But pretending like you "definitively" understand what the cause is, and that "everyone knows that", is unhelpful. That isn't really what this forum is here for.
I was swarmed by unrats while doing the latos unrats & it did take like 3-4 sometimes 5 shots to hit an unrat raptor while it's at 168m distance from the rail turret. /+activateturrets was active. This happened like 15-20% of the time but otherwise the rail seemed quite accurate.
/+ActivateTurrets is way more inaccurate. What Inc is speaking of here is that even when you're manually firing the turrets, there's gonna be some minor error due to "aim-quantization". Inaccuracy in /+ActivateTurrets is because the bot simply doesn't aim well enough, and it probably isn't supposed to either.
> Inaccuracy in /+ActivateTurrets is because the bot simply doesn't aim well enough, and it probably isn't supposed to either.
It doesn't lead, i.e. it won't hit laterally moving targets
It doesn't lead, i.e. it won't hit laterally moving targets
Activate turrets dosnt lead targets at all. Shoots at their cirrent position and not where it could be (inaccuracy could be implemented there). Ive had a dent miss a goli (guass mk2 turret) at 300-400meters which is kinda funny to see.
Inc... so is it the accuracy of the dent weapons you changed?
INC quote.. "If you want to make some claim like "it's seems harder for us to shoot NPC unrat fighters with caprails than it used to be a couple of years ago", hey, that has some value."
INC quote.. "If you want to make some claim like "it's seems harder for us to shoot NPC unrat fighters with caprails than it used to be a couple of years ago", hey, that has some value."
Inc... so is it the accuracy of the dent weapons you changed?
I didn't say that at all. All I said was that we didn't change NPC avoidance-response.
As I wrote earlier "Basically, I have no idea what you're talking about". I don't know what the problem is in the game, or if there actually is a "problem" at all, or just a conflated group of misunderstandings.
However, I can definitely say that the problem in this thread is "people claiming to know more than they actually do". Like how "everyone wants unrats gone" or "everyone knows bot avoidance has changed". If we could dispense with that, it would make discussion more productive.
INC quote.. "If you want to make some claim like "it's seems harder for us to shoot NPC unrat fighters with caprails than it used to be a couple of years ago", hey, that has some value."
Yes, if "YOU" (haxmeister) wanted to claim that. I wasn't claiming that, I was just making an example. My point was that if haxmeister had made a more generalized statement that actually encapsulated the limited scope of what he had personally experienced, it would be way more useful to the discussion.
Activate turrets dosnt lead targets at all.
That might be true. Or, it may just not be using a leadoff that would be appropriate for that weapon. I honestly don't know, at present. But, this is all getting pretty beyond the scope of the OP topic here.
I didn't say that at all. All I said was that we didn't change NPC avoidance-response.
As I wrote earlier "Basically, I have no idea what you're talking about". I don't know what the problem is in the game, or if there actually is a "problem" at all, or just a conflated group of misunderstandings.
However, I can definitely say that the problem in this thread is "people claiming to know more than they actually do". Like how "everyone wants unrats gone" or "everyone knows bot avoidance has changed". If we could dispense with that, it would make discussion more productive.
INC quote.. "If you want to make some claim like "it's seems harder for us to shoot NPC unrat fighters with caprails than it used to be a couple of years ago", hey, that has some value."
Yes, if "YOU" (haxmeister) wanted to claim that. I wasn't claiming that, I was just making an example. My point was that if haxmeister had made a more generalized statement that actually encapsulated the limited scope of what he had personally experienced, it would be way more useful to the discussion.
Activate turrets dosnt lead targets at all.
That might be true. Or, it may just not be using a leadoff that would be appropriate for that weapon. I honestly don't know, at present. But, this is all getting pretty beyond the scope of the OP topic here.
Incarnate.. I did an impromptu poll of players online and it was against unrats being present with players actually playing. Only two players +1'd unrats which was about a 3 to 1 ratio.
can you post an actual poll of players that have played in the last two weeks and let us see how the vote turns out.
can you post an actual poll of players that have played in the last two weeks and let us see how the vote turns out.
Incarnate.. I did an impromptu poll of players online and it was against unrats being present with players actually playing. Only two players +1'd unrats which was about a 3 to 1 ratio.
Yes.. I saw you taking your "poll" on 100, where you would get annoyed when players said they liked the unrats and you would try to actively convince them otherwise.
can you post an actual poll of players that have played in the last two weeks and let us see how the vote turns out.
There's no value in that, for me. I've already told you how things are going to be.
I've also explained what feedback we've received over a long period of time (overwhelmingly positive). Other people on this very thread have explained how they disagree with you.
Similarly, I build the game for the long-haul, not for well-known temporary summertime variations in population density. Or for any temporary transient.
To make a counterpoint, I'm also not going to remove PvP, if suddenly everyone is just trading and mining and doing PvE, and traders raise the complaint that (player) pirates are just "so" annoying and "everyone" wants them gone.
If gameplay were defined by "polling", I think you'd be pretty disappointed about what would happen to the game overall.
Ultimately though, as we all know, and as Rule #2 of Suggestions describes, this is not a democracy, and this game is not made by committee. You get to give me feedback, and offer ideas and communication.
I do try to listen, but at the end of the day, I define what this game is, and where it is headed.
Unrats will change and evolve and become more complex, and more nuanced and strategic, over time. But they aren't going to go away.
I make choices that are not to popular taste all the time. Hell, building a PvP space MMORPG is hardly to "popular taste". In case it isn't self-evident, this is not a "focus tested" game, it's the game that I personally happen to want.
Anyway, this thread has exceeded its value/time threshold for me, and I'm closing it.
If people have different ideas for Suggestions about specific changes to unrats (or capship combat, or.. whatever) that they would like to see, those should be placed into new threads per the forum rules, one thread per idea.
But, in answer to the "get rid of unrats" Suggestion in the OP, the answer is No.
Yes.. I saw you taking your "poll" on 100, where you would get annoyed when players said they liked the unrats and you would try to actively convince them otherwise.
can you post an actual poll of players that have played in the last two weeks and let us see how the vote turns out.
There's no value in that, for me. I've already told you how things are going to be.
I've also explained what feedback we've received over a long period of time (overwhelmingly positive). Other people on this very thread have explained how they disagree with you.
Similarly, I build the game for the long-haul, not for well-known temporary summertime variations in population density. Or for any temporary transient.
To make a counterpoint, I'm also not going to remove PvP, if suddenly everyone is just trading and mining and doing PvE, and traders raise the complaint that (player) pirates are just "so" annoying and "everyone" wants them gone.
If gameplay were defined by "polling", I think you'd be pretty disappointed about what would happen to the game overall.
Ultimately though, as we all know, and as Rule #2 of Suggestions describes, this is not a democracy, and this game is not made by committee. You get to give me feedback, and offer ideas and communication.
I do try to listen, but at the end of the day, I define what this game is, and where it is headed.
Unrats will change and evolve and become more complex, and more nuanced and strategic, over time. But they aren't going to go away.
I make choices that are not to popular taste all the time. Hell, building a PvP space MMORPG is hardly to "popular taste". In case it isn't self-evident, this is not a "focus tested" game, it's the game that I personally happen to want.
Anyway, this thread has exceeded its value/time threshold for me, and I'm closing it.
If people have different ideas for Suggestions about specific changes to unrats (or capship combat, or.. whatever) that they would like to see, those should be placed into new threads per the forum rules, one thread per idea.
But, in answer to the "get rid of unrats" Suggestion in the OP, the answer is No.