The armor of the Raptor UDV is far too weak for the type of ship it is compared to other national ships.

Currently:
X-1 has 11,600 armor
UDV has 12,000 armor
skyprom has 21,000 armor

However, the UDV has a combination of at least 2 features that make it an inferior national advanced ship. Those being, that it is both too sluggish when strafing and has a hit box too large to avoid non-seeking missiles at optimal combat range.

Both of those attributes already imply that the ship must have much heavier armor. While the 2 faults I mentioned could themselves be a suggestion for change, I'll just go with more armor to keep the post well within the rules.

Suggest increasing the armor of the UDV to 15,000.

This would make the UDV more competitive with the other national advanced ships.

+1. Also reduce length to increase its turn speed.

It has it's role and people use it plenty, with it's turbo thrust it accelerates as fast if not faster than a valk granted you don't put a gat/swarms on it - The turn rate of the UDV is also superior by one hell of a margin.

In a few ways it's a better ship than the valk and in other ways it's a better ship than the prom.

It's not a ship that needs any reworking, the hornet on the other hand... but lets not go there.

I've flown it and It's plenty strong - gonna be a no from me unless you knock the buff down to 1k and the entire craptor line gets the same buff because why the fuck not; it's almost as easy to hit as jakp's dent...

Actually that might be good...if we make the UDV like the X1. Flatter than the other raptor variants. Other stats remain as they are, but the hitbox becomes smaller.

The mesh looks too cool to get squished, makes much more sense to give em a wee bit more armor to compensate, given it's voluminous size the MkI and the MkII could get 4 and 2 extra cu's of cargo space respectively.

It's a good ship It's seen quite a few buffs, all the raptors chase like a motherfucker in heat especially the UDV.

I'm fairly certain that the UDV was not intended to be competitive with the X-1 and SkyProm, but rather had features that would make it the elite ship for other activities that have yet to be realized. So... if that's true, then this suggestion is a dead end.

If it isn't true (or is no longer true) then yes, the UDV needs a buff.

If what you're saying is true, Greenwall, then I'd argue the UDV needs an interim buff. Throw in some line about the UIT adapting to changing times, make it turn like a competitive ship, and you'll have an interesting top tier nation ship that plays differently from the other two but can actually fight them.

It's the nation's top military ship. Supposed to be close to, if not as good as the X1 or Skyprom. It should atleast be better than the SVG or IBG, which, currently, it is not. It has better acceleration, but a huge hitbox and turns pretty bad due to the increased length. The WTD, a lower military ship, is a helluva lot better.

Depending on the pilot, i have seen top level pilots take out X-1's and Sky Proms with the UDV. There is a chance that if a player doesn't fly the ship a lot, they just might not be used to it. That doesn't necessarily make it under powered, but instead means its a training issue.

UDV ownership is tied to Itani/Serco standing. If a player is hate/kos with either nation, then that UIT player can not purchase the ship.



This being the case, then I don't see why it should be equal to the prom/valk lines of ships. Its use is clearly not for fighting them; probably more for border defense in addition to border defense turrets.

I disagree that a canon argument should influence the gameplay in such a way that a top of the line nation ship ends up without a real advantage. It is a gimmick compared to the absolute supremacy of the Valk and Prometheus. Also, the argument that it’s a training issue rings pretty hollow to me. Plenty of ships, even underpowered ones, can be used by superior players to beat up on weaker ones in objectively stronger ships. It does not change the experiences and opinions of plenty of vets that it is not a viable ship outside a couple edge cases, making it the worst.

IonicPaulTheSecond,

I'm going to quote Roda here:

Rocket launcher safety fuses are radically different between large and small port rockets, and I consider this to be the last great disadvantage of the UDV.

I think that the Valk is the best close in energy fighter of the three.
I think the the UDV is the best to shoot runners in the back, and plenty capable in a strait up fight.
I think the SVG is in the ball park, with low license requirements.

If you think that there is something wrong with the UDV, I have to wonder if you are just doing it wrong.

and

The greatest weakness of the UDV (and raptors in general) is how poorly it spins (in the x/y axis), and handles while trying to aim it. Of note, I have seen Nahin Lor aim the UDV like it was a top of the line fighter, and he even defeated me 1v1, all energy, UDV vs SVG, at knife fighting range. But Nahin Lor is the only one I have ever seen get that kind of performance out of a UDV.

(in that thread, inc did bump the armor up to 12k)

Also, a quote from inc about UDV:


Given all the scanners and bolt-ons and mods the UDV has, I think I'm fine with leaving this as it is for awhile. If people want access to purely combative craft, they have six character slots, and two other factions that pour huge resources into an on-going war.

If we made an analogy of the Serco and Itani were the US and Russia, the UIT might be more like.. Belgium or something? Much smaller, and.. over there, and has a lot of arms trade, but does not make their own stealth bombers. Or maybe Isreal, they're even more independent, and build a lot of their own native weapons systems, but still don't have the resources to develop crazy stuff like the superpowers.

Not all ships (or factions) are supposed to be all things to all people, or a 1:1 match against everyone else. Hell, a ship that benefits from engagement at a distance adds some variety, and perhaps tactical differentiation. I'm just happy that the UDV isn't "entirely embarrassing" and is useful.

Once again, I have no issue with the ship filling a different niche. I’m arguing that it doesn’t have one. The damage you can do while chasing is significant, yes, but anyone who isn’t in a merchant ship can turn around and give you a run for your money... and at that point I’d sooner use the greyhound. The scanners/radar are nice if you are coordinating with others... but at that point I’d sooner bring a capship into the mix or throw a valk player burning a slot on a scanner and still having two light weapons on the best close fighter in the whole game. If some sort of content was added that necessitated total speed in a storm while being able to engage targets whose cargo I need to scan... the UDV is the standout. That situation doesn’t exist, so other than style (it is a cool looking ship) it is just not a winner.

+1 I agree with IonicPaulTheSecond... all valid points. either more armor or less hitbox or a lot more storms in VO would be nice. If VO was much more stormy, this ship would be more useful. I'm pretty sure VO used to have more storms a decade ago.

How about making it possible for ion storms to occur at wormholes? The ion storms will be an annoyance, but will give some potential for the use of raptors in general and UDV in particular.

No matter how much more stats you bring to the UDV it's still the raptor hull. Pretty big. Awkard. Unlike the sleeker Valk/X1 and Prom models. I am confident I can gun a UDV down at close quarters with my gauss in a valk.

Personally, I always envied having 2 large ports on a fighter hull with fighter stats. I always wanted to do a screamer/energy combo or go with 2 chaos swarms!

I like the last analogy WAF quoted. The UIT made the UDV as their own home-grown ship. They aren't as massive as Itani and Serco they aren't as old as Itani/Serco as long as they been in active conflict. The UDV was quickly designed to meet the needs of their home nation. With the loss of not being able to fly a valk or prom UIT's get so many more benefits. I don't need to list these benefits the UIT's trade a top tier ship prom/valk for other benefits.

The UDV is not a joke of a ship. Has some really cool tactical plays you can make with it having 2 large ports. And has cool built in scanners. I would love to bomb a goliath in a UDV with 2 swarms or 2 screamers.

The UDV just wasn't designed to be 1:1 to Serco proms or Itani Valks. I don't see the need for a change. Due to the reason the UDV was made in the first place.

Sid123, storms at wormholes would be great!!! Grey side UIT wormholes, especially! Maybe only grey wormholes for the time being.

Ion storms in wormholes would make make inter-system travel impossible since storm exit point and wormhole might not necessarily coincide. A storm exit point is the only place where the storm is weak and warping out is possible.

I'm sure it's possible to make wormhole storms to have two exits, one at the wh and one elsewhere.

What would the two exits look like? I think they should be 10km apart with strike force guarding.

The two exits can look like the jump point and wormhole jump point in a wormhole sector look now. Their distance may vary from wormhole to wormhole. And these storms would occur only in grey, and not at the station whs like Helios B7 or Ukari L2, so the question of strike force or turrets doesn't arise.