Forums » Suggestions
The intention is to improve fighting between capships, whether or not there are small ships involved.
First some points about capship fighting...
The PCB turret is effective at close range, and when used on an opponent capship, will stop caprails from firing. Caprails are used for de-shielding and damaging the opponent at a distance, staying outside pcb turrent range.
Using turbo and turning to keep distance to stay out of PCB range while firing rails at distance is not as fun as it sounds. It also puts the pursuing ship at a disadvantage, having to turn the nose of their ship to the opponent to chase, thus not being able to use long-range turrets.
Caprails make it hard for small ships to attack capships as they are very good at close range and can kill small ships in one or two hits.
These two weapons are in a way linked to each other. They are both somewhat overpowered. I don't really like either of them but I use them because I have to adjust to what the opponent brings to the sector. We really can't remove one or the other from the game because each is the answer to the other. So my suggestion is that both the caprail and the PCB turret be removed at the same time.
First some points about capship fighting...
The PCB turret is effective at close range, and when used on an opponent capship, will stop caprails from firing. Caprails are used for de-shielding and damaging the opponent at a distance, staying outside pcb turrent range.
Using turbo and turning to keep distance to stay out of PCB range while firing rails at distance is not as fun as it sounds. It also puts the pursuing ship at a disadvantage, having to turn the nose of their ship to the opponent to chase, thus not being able to use long-range turrets.
Caprails make it hard for small ships to attack capships as they are very good at close range and can kill small ships in one or two hits.
These two weapons are in a way linked to each other. They are both somewhat overpowered. I don't really like either of them but I use them because I have to adjust to what the opponent brings to the sector. We really can't remove one or the other from the game because each is the answer to the other. So my suggestion is that both the caprail and the PCB turret be removed at the same time.
I really can spell 'proposal', just not late at night apparently...
Removing them seems drastic and a waste of existing content. Why not consider an adjustment of range or some other method of resolving the perceived imbalance?
or maybe try the combo of duel guass and duel caprail, pcb turrets i find dont do enough hence i never use em unless its a npc
Always weary of these balancing issues when it comes to the capship meta. New capships and new turrets might change the whole premise of this issue. Fighting cap gauss at point blank range is still quite a challenge for PCBs
I don't have a comment or issue about whole cap v cap or cap v fighter v cap. Too many variables that can change.
I don't have a comment or issue about whole cap v cap or cap v fighter v cap. Too many variables that can change.
-1 to removing either.
+1 to extending the PCB's range
+1 to extending the PCB's range
I really can't visualize the problem, as I have not heard anyone else complain about this. Perhaps you could make a video(using the test server) demonstrating the issue?
One thing though:
It also puts the pursuing ship at a disadvantage, having to turn the nose of their ship to the opponent to chase, thus not being able to use long-range turrets.
Perhaps rolling back the cap rail nerf from VO 1.8.479, so they can fire 180 degrees again would solve this issue?
-1 to extending the pcb range but maybe add a power drain effect to caprails?
One thing though:
It also puts the pursuing ship at a disadvantage, having to turn the nose of their ship to the opponent to chase, thus not being able to use long-range turrets.
Perhaps rolling back the cap rail nerf from VO 1.8.479, so they can fire 180 degrees again would solve this issue?
-1 to extending the pcb range but maybe add a power drain effect to caprails?
@Whistler
I believe the PCB turret came from a suggestions post, but maybe the devs had it in mind already. I was never sure the turret version was a good idea.
I'll take some time and try to come up with a suggestion of modifications to these two turrets.
I believe the PCB turret came from a suggestions post, but maybe the devs had it in mind already. I was never sure the turret version was a good idea.
I'll take some time and try to come up with a suggestion of modifications to these two turrets.
@Anewold
Yea that's pretty much my setup all the time lately.
Yea that's pretty much my setup all the time lately.
I too am not sure as to precisely what kind of scenario you are trying to describe.
Do you mean a pbc wielding ship trying to chase down a ship armed with caprails?
If that is the case, then a longer range version of the pcb turret would be in order.
I think I remember Incarnate saying something about how that can when scaled up generate an excessive amount of individual weapons shots flying for a long time, and that being something he'd like to avoid for technical reasons.
Maybe then the solution is to double their range, double the drain they cause, double the power they use, and half their rate of fire. Unless I've done my math wrong would give you a pcb turret with longer range, but the same number of shot in flight at one time and the same drain and energy usage per second.
As a matter of personal opinion, I think only short ranged weapons on capitol ships should be high rate of fire, with longer range weapons tending towards lower rate of fire, but higher damage when they hit. Kinda like the difference between the Capitol Gauss and the Gauss mk2 turrets.
Do you mean a pbc wielding ship trying to chase down a ship armed with caprails?
If that is the case, then a longer range version of the pcb turret would be in order.
I think I remember Incarnate saying something about how that can when scaled up generate an excessive amount of individual weapons shots flying for a long time, and that being something he'd like to avoid for technical reasons.
Maybe then the solution is to double their range, double the drain they cause, double the power they use, and half their rate of fire. Unless I've done my math wrong would give you a pcb turret with longer range, but the same number of shot in flight at one time and the same drain and energy usage per second.
As a matter of personal opinion, I think only short ranged weapons on capitol ships should be high rate of fire, with longer range weapons tending towards lower rate of fire, but higher damage when they hit. Kinda like the difference between the Capitol Gauss and the Gauss mk2 turrets.
Honestly I think this is just a symptom of capships not being fully fleshed out yet, specifically the fact that we don't have any anti-capital ship capships. All we have are transport / escort-ish ships. Not that things can't change in the game, but generally speaking the only capital ships that can destroy other capital ships are Connies and HACs (when they are broadsiding), and Teradons. Tridents have always been the "support" ship that almost always does jack shit.... goliaths even less so.
It sounds like Harpo is asking for ways being able to better pursue capships in capships, and I would argue that the capships we have aren't really meant for pursuing, and therein lies the problem (we want them to serve a purpose they aren't designed to serve).
If capships WERE meant to pursue and destroy others, they would be given the option of far more capable forward facing weapons (which they are not).
It sounds like Harpo is asking for ways being able to better pursue capships in capships, and I would argue that the capships we have aren't really meant for pursuing, and therein lies the problem (we want them to serve a purpose they aren't designed to serve).
If capships WERE meant to pursue and destroy others, they would be given the option of far more capable forward facing weapons (which they are not).
Seems to me like the solution is adding more, not making the already-meager selection even more sparse. All it means is that a fight would go from one type of "forced meta" to another. As Greenwall says, capships at present really seem to figuratively bounce off each other without an exceptional amount of work and a very specific kit.
If I were to suggest anything it would be some kind of powerful anti-ship large port weapon (with a grid of, say, 35, to preclude small ships from using it) to give both the Trident and Goliath - if the Goliath's pilot wants to be completely devoid of any other capital weaponry - a way to directly engage one another rather than plinking like they do at present. As for what could be done to limit such a weapon, I imagine it would have no auto-aim and take a full or near-full battery to fire.
Otherwise, I really don't have an issue with any of the capship weaponry at present. You could argue that the capships themselves are too survivable, but that's a different thread.
If I were to suggest anything it would be some kind of powerful anti-ship large port weapon (with a grid of, say, 35, to preclude small ships from using it) to give both the Trident and Goliath - if the Goliath's pilot wants to be completely devoid of any other capital weaponry - a way to directly engage one another rather than plinking like they do at present. As for what could be done to limit such a weapon, I imagine it would have no auto-aim and take a full or near-full battery to fire.
Otherwise, I really don't have an issue with any of the capship weaponry at present. You could argue that the capships themselves are too survivable, but that's a different thread.
#Teradon Soontm
I agree with IonicPaul and Greenwall the best approach is to wait for this capship meta to develop. These kinds of threads are pretty common, but people need to know is all we got in capitals is 2 haulers. These 2 haulers so happen to have special turrets and ability's other hulls don't have.
If I was the developer, I would be making myself extra work because of small changes in this and many other things. And this stuff is coming! We will have more capitals/turrets and greater depth. Then we should be talking about nerfs/buffs and so on.
Goliaths are strictly haulers and we do see the Military NPC version of the trident and the NPC trader trident with large turrets. If I recall the trident type M is like some bootleg version put together in private ship yards (conquerable stations) with salvaged hive components.
I discourage these kinds of threads because of the lack of development in capships in general. I encourage restraint until more things are added.
If I was the developer, I would be making myself extra work because of small changes in this and many other things. And this stuff is coming! We will have more capitals/turrets and greater depth. Then we should be talking about nerfs/buffs and so on.
Goliaths are strictly haulers and we do see the Military NPC version of the trident and the NPC trader trident with large turrets. If I recall the trident type M is like some bootleg version put together in private ship yards (conquerable stations) with salvaged hive components.
I discourage these kinds of threads because of the lack of development in capships in general. I encourage restraint until more things are added.
Haulers that you can r/r in, that can spam missiles ad-infinitum and have the most powerful addons in the game protected behind a shield and buggy turrets that are practically impossible to destroy if someone's running one of those turret swapping plugins to boot...
Capships are overpowered in whatever context you put them in short of chasing someone down.
From day one they've given whoever's fielding em the ability to r/r indefinitely which is in itself a broken "ability" that encourages vo's most broken and abused "mechanic"...
Lack of development in cap-ships as far as addon additions to the game and balances/tweak cap-ships have soaked up all the attention since they've gotten added this thread is a pretty good example... Who cares about small port addon diversity anymore bring in more cap-ship turrets to solve the problem of capships being too good at everything... Wheeeeee!
Capships are overpowered in whatever context you put them in short of chasing someone down.
From day one they've given whoever's fielding em the ability to r/r indefinitely which is in itself a broken "ability" that encourages vo's most broken and abused "mechanic"...
Lack of development in cap-ships as far as addon additions to the game and balances/tweak cap-ships have soaked up all the attention since they've gotten added this thread is a pretty good example... Who cares about small port addon diversity anymore bring in more cap-ship turrets to solve the problem of capships being too good at everything... Wheeeeee!
Am going to admit i skimmed over most of the responses but the main post that i read.
If PCB turret is removed give a hull boost to hog 2 or hound (but only when PCB is equipped) , a PCB blaster is a alternative but HIGHLY ineffective. Capgauss does 3000(?) damage per hit a hog 2 has 9k(?) hull 3 shots and BOOM the person your trying to hold down is gone.
If we are looking at VO economics then the price of cappie kits will decrease. Because there pretty much nothing you can do to stop them from jumping. Now a skilled player with a PCB blaster well thats different.
Cap ships are MADE to be over powered. Most noobs who start playing VO "want a bigger ship" once they realize the biggest ship you can buy at a station is a moth they look at capships. Then they realize... the build time. If you want something that bad you'll work for it. If cappies didn't take that long to make , ohhhh you bet i will be working my best to get them nerfed.
Keep in mind. The shortest manu time for a cappie that I've beeen told is 3 months IRL time.
If PCB turret is removed give a hull boost to hog 2 or hound (but only when PCB is equipped) , a PCB blaster is a alternative but HIGHLY ineffective. Capgauss does 3000(?) damage per hit a hog 2 has 9k(?) hull 3 shots and BOOM the person your trying to hold down is gone.
If we are looking at VO economics then the price of cappie kits will decrease. Because there pretty much nothing you can do to stop them from jumping. Now a skilled player with a PCB blaster well thats different.
Cap ships are MADE to be over powered. Most noobs who start playing VO "want a bigger ship" once they realize the biggest ship you can buy at a station is a moth they look at capships. Then they realize... the build time. If you want something that bad you'll work for it. If cappies didn't take that long to make , ohhhh you bet i will be working my best to get them nerfed.
Keep in mind. The shortest manu time for a cappie that I've beeen told is 3 months IRL time.
The shortest manu time for a cappie that I've beeen told is 3 months IRL time.
Keep in mind you can buy all the parts and get it finished in a day.
Keep in mind you can buy all the parts and get it finished in a day.
yes because anyone has 800mil layin around when they start
Ok, let's say generally speaking a month... which is enough time for a newb to prove their worthiness of an investment by an interested party in funding a capship purchase. This is all beside the point of the OP though. Sorry for jumping on demonicat's ramble.
Anewold, I'm not sure pando showed you all the shiny junk I gave him but it was a bit more than 800mill all in, can't put a price on unique items and trust me he made a good bargain...
Now back to the subject at hand
Capships are broken, everyone knows it and no one knows how to fix it; well at least I don't but this thread proposes solutions thus I'm for it - Hell I don't know if it's a good fix but it's definitely in the right direction!
There's a big difference in a 400m/s projectile that does 10k damage and a 240m/s projectile that does 3k.
A fair fix might just be to make caprails draw a similar amount of energy to regular rails and lowering the ammo count - blows my mind that capship get the same weapon without having to deal with ammo management not to mention the harsh penalty that is missing a rail shot. (and lets not talk about their initial implementation that thankfully I wasn't around for...)
I haven't flown with caprails much but I haven't noticed the smaller firing cone that caprails should have It's either buggy or non-existent as far as I've been able to tell.
Now back to the subject at hand
Capships are broken, everyone knows it and no one knows how to fix it; well at least I don't but this thread proposes solutions thus I'm for it - Hell I don't know if it's a good fix but it's definitely in the right direction!
There's a big difference in a 400m/s projectile that does 10k damage and a 240m/s projectile that does 3k.
A fair fix might just be to make caprails draw a similar amount of energy to regular rails and lowering the ammo count - blows my mind that capship get the same weapon without having to deal with ammo management not to mention the harsh penalty that is missing a rail shot. (and lets not talk about their initial implementation that thankfully I wasn't around for...)
I haven't flown with caprails much but I haven't noticed the smaller firing cone that caprails should have It's either buggy or non-existent as far as I've been able to tell.