I think there is room for another manufactured ship. It should be primarily geared towards hauling/mining and not warfare. This could be a gateway capship to be used along the way to bigger and better ships, or just enjoyed as it is.

I know suggestions should be highly detailed with numbers, but I'm going to express things relative to other known things. I would never get the thrust and turn numbers right anyway.

Size:
It can be docked at all stations, not just capship stations.
It cannot dock in a capship.
It has a cargo capacity of 400cu.

Appearance:
It would have a cross-section looking just the same shape roughly as a station dock tube. Kind of ugly but practical looking.

Details:
It would have one L port in front, and one rear turret.
It would have shields slightly weaker than the shields on a Goliath.
It would have a dock for entering/exiting via small ship.
It's cell would be just powerful enough to use the new queen mining beam.

Performance:
Speed: 40 m/s.
Turbo: 120 m/s.
It would have thrust similar to an XC, so if loaded it will accelerate slower.
It would have turning thrust similar to an XC, so it maneuvers rather poorly.

Build material suggestions:
Prosus or Siepos master computer instead of Milinar (builder chooses which)
1 EHA, and one of all the other major components

Operation:
There would be an insurance mission like the other capships.
A player can own only one at a time like other capships.
It would have the same remote commands as other capships.

Other possibiities: (because it is targeted to newer players)
The insurance mission is available not only in Latos, but in Dau, Sol II, and Itan.
The default rear turret weapon is a shield turret instead of the usual neut II.

It's a good suggestion...but we'll very likely have people saying it's making things "too easy". And they'd be right. This is a possibility, but with the change that it isn't a capship. It's designed exclusively for mining/hauling, so let it have no other possible use. No dock port. No shields even. Essentially an expensive heavy hauler/miner.

Don't be too anxious to make it even more limited. People will build it first because it's easier, then won't be satisfied with it as a final ship because it's weak and slow. Plus owning it will make the EHA grind a little more tolerable. It will put good targets out on trade routes for the pirates. Something for everyone. It's a weak capship but has the one major benefit of being able to dock anywhere. Leave the internal dock and remote commands so that the vets will build them too.

I forgot to include in the original post that it probably should require a lite sub to pilot, but maybe there is a case to not require it.

I see your point but I think that the goli already exists to make work on a dent easier. Making a capship to make goli manu easier will be making things too easy IMO. As said in other suggestions, a capship is an endgame goal, so making it easier and easier isn't right. The current level of difficulty is correct IMO. So while I would "like" to have a better hauler, I don't think it'll be good in the larger scope.

For discussion let's call this ship an Albatross...

Yes, having an Albatross while building a Goliath makes the building of a Goliath a bit easier, but to build the Albatross requires a bunch of capship parts rather similar to that of a Goliath, so when the Goliath is finished the builder has made a lot more than a Goliath's worth of capship parts. It doesn't really lessen the amount of work but it makes it a bit more palatable. Especially if the main difference in parts between the two is basically 1 EHA and some minor bits.

Let's calculate the amount of cargo the Albatross can carry (with the overstuffing bug). 400 cu means it can hold 3 ECs, which are switched with 3 XCs. So 600 cu. Goliath carries 4 XCs or 800 cu. Trident carries 6 XCs or 1200 cu of cargo. So for a person with all three, they can haul 2600 cu of cargo in 1 haul. That's too much per haul. We already have players who lead entire manu fleets of 5 Tridents + 5 Goliaths by running multiple clients. Having a third capship will give them a crazy amount of power to manu/trade and tank prices both on the player market and the game market.

Any stepping stone ship before the Goliath shouldn't have a dock.

That's what I said. Having a dock port and being able to dock in the small dock ports is unnecessary. Also dumb question here...how do I write in italics for emphasis on the forum? On mobile.

( italics : [ i ] your text [ /i ] remove spaces inside brackets. You can also replace the i with b for bold or u for underline or combine them - Whistler)

This sounds a good idea, me being a noob that is. I've seen what is required to build capships and it is quite a daunting task, I mean I get that building a capships is supposed to be endgame content but this could be what gets new players to start trying to build, and feel some kind of accomplishment. Being able to build it from your own nation Is good too rather than go on long trips just to have it destroyed after being built. It sure looks like a sitting duck in space from what I'm picturing it out to be.

What's wrong with using XC to grind for a goliath? This suggestion seems unnecessary. Already easy enough just put in the work from XC-Goliath-Trident? Just my pov.

>but this could be what gets new players to start trying to build, and feel some kind of accomplishment

Centurion Superlight exists.

-1. This suggestion sounds more like a change for the sake of change.
+1 for removing dock.

Yeah I personally don't see a real reason for it. XC, slow as it is, is good enough for manu, and making a ship between them is, as SIG said, change for the sake of change.

PS. Thanks Whistler

If I remember correctly, the Goliath's inventory blurb states that it is the smallest ship equipped with a shield generator and dock. Going by this info, anything smaller than that would have to lack those features.

>Centurion Superlight exists

I probably should've stated starting the the huge grind for capships, well heck it ain't even a capship if no shield and dock, just a ship you can command to mine and haul, and it is weak overall so owners will have to defend it and maybe hire other players to help guard. It could also be a way for ppl to sub early on, not grind for months or year and just sub when u build the bigger ships. I'm just saying my pov as a new player and don't know much yet.

@SIGTERM Summed it up well. Feels like a change/addition for additions sake. You go from XC-Goli-Trident

Again why do we need another ship between XC-Goli? Like the goli was added for this reason to make the grind easier.

I don't see any issue being solved with the addition of another ship on a stepping stone to the trident.

XC-Goli-Trident is enough in my opinion.

I think there's definitely a niche for multiple-seat gunboats or corvettes, and with some tweaking this could definitely move toward that.

Yeah if you mod it into a combat oriented rather than a hauler ship, the multiple seat gunboat A-Dawg is talking about might be possible. But to the current suggestion of a hauler between the XC and the Goliath, I don't see a need for it. Goli manu isn't very hard. If you dedicatedly grind for even 2 hours a day you may be able to build it in a month. So a ship to make the goli easier doesn't make sense IMO.

I'm purposefully not worrying about over-stuffing when thinking about ship design. It will be fixed at some point. We shouldn't let it derail us.

I'm just proposing a new ship with a niche. A-Dawg suggests removing the shield from it, I have no problem with that. The rest of it I still think is a good idea.